239 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 15 February 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Yup, 2 years of intense reverse engineering of salvaged Clan Tech ensued after Tukkiyad in 3052. What mix tech would be like in reality would be taking the turret off an Abraham's A1 and field fitting it to a German Tiger tank,circa 1944, and doing so while a Tank Battle raged in immediate area. LOL!

Hardly. The Techs did the mangling back in the rear not up on the front line. Also I would think it would be taking the cannon out of the Abrams and fitting it into a Tiger's Turret. I doubt there would be room for the auto loader from the Abrams, but in 3050 handwavium is a techs miracle tool. Like Duct Tape! If Mythbusters can do it...

Almond Brown, on 15 February 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

And if a House Unit finds itself a well established and loyal Merc unit, it could (somehow) allow them to drive some of their salvaged Clan gear for them.

Eventually Yes. Say 3056 (ie long way down the road for us Mercs)

[Zerberus]

TehSBGX, on 15 February 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

I was trying to explain why we should have Mix Tech. 12 v 12 with mix tech would be far easier to balance than 10 v 12 no mix tech since clan weapons are meant to have trade off so they aren't strictly better.

My apologies, I misunderstood the intent. Can`t say I agree, though

Edited by Zerberus, 15 February 2014 - 09:12 AM.

[Varent]

Almond Brown, on 15 February 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

If they nerfed them into samedom, then there would be no point in mixing the Tech right? What the **** is the difference, if they are the same in all respects other than one weapon has a "C" prefix...

problem is they are not truly just nerfing clan tech. They are nerfing the chasis they run on, how the hard points work, the inability to fully customize... etc...etc...

Thus mixed tech would put IS at an unfair advantage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

This.

http://www.protectam.../09/doomba4.png

I know a guy who could rig that with adding an erectorset to actually fire!

[Davers]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Ain't one and you well know it. But We all know how the Clans are supposed to fight, I would not fault the Clanners for hedging some, but they were the Ultimate competitors and purposely used the least they thought they needed to win. If you can't be Clan you shouldn't play Clan. It is why I am Lyran!

I respect your opinions and love/knowledge of lore. But if you think someone who saved up 29 million cbills to buy a Dire Wolf and needs to unlock the efficiencies on it will not use it, I think you are mistaken.

The Clans need to be balanced vs the IS. If the Law wants to run tier 1 tech against them for the sake of immersion, then fine. But all the lostech is already here. There ain't no ComStar guards showing up with secret weapons. If they can't balance it, they might as well advance the timeline to when it is better balanced.

[Procyon Alpha]

Why don't we just weight clan mechs differently for MM like 25%. That way we could have mixed MM games. It would reduce the difference a litte and could be adjusted in tweaking. Or better yet give everything a battle value and MM would take a raw BV when putting together a game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 15 February 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

I respect your opinions and love/knowledge of lore. But if you think someone who saved up 29 million cbills to buy a Dire Wolf and needs to unlock the efficiencies on it will not use it, I think you are mistaken.

The Clans need to be balanced vs the IS. If the Law wants to run tier 1 tech against them for the sake of immersion, then fine. But all the lostech is already here. There ain't no ComStar guards showing up with secret weapons. If they can't balance it, they might as well advance the timeline to when it is better balanced.

For the record we have the Helm core weapons which are the Star League vintage equvalent, We are not sure there will be no ComGuard (though I don't care if they dont come).

The Clans need to be played as the Clans were meant to be played. Like Ultra competative jocks.

I'm bringing an Atlas-D
Clanner,
Bah, That is nothing. I will bring my Summoner and see you on the battlefield.

That is how the Clans were wrote. If you wanna Clan, Then Clan but do it right. I am here to fight Clanners and try to beat the Boogieman. I don't want PGI to do that before I even face my first Timber Wolf.

That is how Clans lost, they over estimated their abilty and their tech, and undersetimated the Inner sphsere's Tech and Guile.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 February 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

For the record we have the Helm core weapons which are the Star League vintage equvalent, We are not sure there will be no ComGuard (though I don't care if they dont come).

The Clans need to be played as the Clans were meant to be played. Like Ultra competative jocks.

I'm bringing an Atlas-D
Clanner,
Bah, That is nothing. I will bring my Summoner and see you on the battlefield.

That is how the Clans were wrote. If you wanna Clan, Then Clan but do it right. I am here to fight Clanners and try to beat the Boogieman. I don't want PGI to do that before I even face my first Timber Wolf.

That is how Clans lost, they over estimated their abilty and their tech, and undersetimated the Inner sphsere's Tech and Guile.

Problem.

The gamer behind the inner sphere mech, is not an inner sphere pilot.

The gamer behind the clan mech, is not a clan mech pilot.

They do not play and react the same way and are not governed by the same rules.

They are not equal pilots or gamers.

BT was not balanced. And it certainly did not take pilot skill within a mech into account when it comes to an online shooter environment.

[Davers]

The more it hear about this game the more I feel it will satisfy no one. The IS pilots will complain about Clantech. The Clan pilots will complain the Clantech isn't good enough to make up for 2 fewer pilots, and the pugs will wonder if they will ever be in a match without a 12 man premade on the other side.

[Rebas Kradd]

B1zmark, on 15 February 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

The balance they are reaching for seems to be self-evident but is being ignored:

Clan mechs get excellent hard-points and bonuses but are limited in diversity.
IS Mechs are diverse but have tech limitations.

Of course it's being ignored. If people really examine their definitions of balance, they'll find that it's bereft of the role warfare concept and basically boils down to "If I can't get 700 damage whenever I want, it's unbalanced."

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Problem.

The gamer behind the inner sphere mech, is not an inner sphere pilot.

The gamer behind the clan mech, is not a clan mech pilot.

They do not play and react the same way and are not governed by the same rules.

They are not equal pilots or gamers.

BT was not balanced. And it certainly did not take pilot skill within a mech into account when it comes to an online shooter environment.

I don't disagree, I want my Clanner enemy to make me say, "OMFG What the Hel was that!" If I want a close to even fight, I will go against Drac units. I am not here for fair and balanced. I came here looking for an up hill fight vs a foe I have gamed against and for for over 20 years. I know what The Clans are supposed to be, and I am here as a Lyran because of it!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 February 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

I don't disagree, I want my Clanner enemy to make me say, "OMFG What the Hel was that!" If I want a close to even fight, I will go against Drac units. I am not here for fair and balanced. I came here looking for an up hill fight vs a foe I have gamed against and for for over 20 years. I know what The Clans are supposed to be, and I am here as a Lyran because of it!

I think you ignored most of my post. They are not clanners. Try as you might and hope them to be. They mostly will be elitist gamers that are simply there for the advanced tech. They will be disrespectful, unhonorable and mostly brash.

This is not TT.

This is a shooting game and simulator. Balance should be dealt out to make them appropriatly well rounded to function as a faction within that system.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

I think you ignored most of my post. They are not clanners. Try as you might and hope them to be. They mostly will be elitist gamers that are simply there for the advanced tech. They will be disrespectful, unhonorable and mostly brash.

This is not TT.

This is a shooting game and simulator. Balance should be dealt out to make them appropriatly well rounded to function as a faction within that system.

So they will be different from TT Clanners how again?

As for them being in a shooter, I still want em to have better weapons than I got, cause I love a up hill fight! IT IS WHY I AM A LYRAN PLAYER!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 February 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

So they will be different from TT Clanners how again?

As for them being in a shooter, I still want em to have better weapons than I got, cause I love a up hill fight! IT IS WHY I AM A LYRAN PLAYER!

clanners are very honorable. they also are very respectful among there own group and respectful among warriors they deem as good quality. If someone can beat them they are deserving of respect.

If you beat a gamer they will rage at you, call you a n00b and rant etc. Gamers do not have honor IM afraid. its simply a fact, not a judgement.

This is an online competitive shooter Joseph. Balance is important, not an uphill battle.

[Khobai]

Quote

The Flaw behind Weight Balancing is the Temptation to just "Give up and say Assault Mechs are supposed to be more effective."

Its more than that. It says an Atlas is better than a Highlander. Which we all know isnt true.

While tonnage certainly contributes to overall effectiveness, its not the only factor. Thats why we need battle value and not tonnage balancing.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

clanners are very honorable. they also are very respectful among there own group and respectful among warriors they deem as good quality. If someone can beat them they are deserving of respect.

If you beat a gamer they will rage at you, call you a n00b and rant etc. Gamers do not have honor IM afraid. its simply a fact, not a judgement.

This is an online competitive shooter Joseph. Balance is important, not an uphill battle.

Why is it that a game must only cater to one group? I was drawn to this game because I read that it would follow the 3050 Clan Invasion on a day=day timeline! That sounds more like it is the game I am here for instead of a FPS! SO which of us is being lied to? Cause if it's just a mindless shooter that will ever be a capture the flag victory condition... I already put in enough time!

Oh and FYI... I have been a gamer since the 70s... I think you need to reevaluate your idea on who does and does not have honor.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 February 2014 - 11:33 AM.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Why is it that a game must only cater to one group? I was drawn to this game because I read that it would follow the 3050 Clan Invasion on a day=day timeline! That sounds more like it is the game I am here for instead of a FPS! SO which of us is being lied to? Cause if it's just a mindless shooter that will ever be a capture the flag victory condition... I already put in enough time!

Oh and FYI... I have been a gamer since the 70s... I think you need to reevaluate your idea on who does and does not have honor.

Ive been a gamer a long time as well Joseph. That does not mean you are not part of a MUCH larger community wich as a whole is comprised of a group wich does not have your same values. Just because you have honor and respect does not mean the YOLO generation of gamers does.

I think the fact that it already has not followed the timeline and the fact that the clans are coming out before community warfare speaks volumes for how much it will follow lore perfectly.

Will it be a good MW game? Sure. Big stompy robots, taking planets and territory, fighting the clans.

Will it be an adventure style game following the invasion and timeline? Extremely doubtful at best.

Does that mean you cant play it and enjoy the game still? Totally up to you. I enjoy it though im burnt out and mostly waiting on CW at this point to fully enjoy it once more.

Bottom line, its an online shooter and its also a f2p. This means it has to have a business model wich caters to making money and being profitable and cater do a group that WANT to play a fps.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

stjobe, on 14 February 2014 - 08:47 AM, said:

Then the question becomes "can PGI do whatever they want and still call it MechWarrior?".

If the "current MWO model" can't accommodate basic rules of the BattleTech Universe, should it really be called a MechWarrior game? Or was that what PGI paid their money for; a well-known name to stick on their stompy robot game, without any strings attached to anchor it to the 30 years of BattleTech lore?

At what point have we thrown out enough lore, rules, and principles of the BattleTech Universe that it isn't a game set in that universe any more?

Then we start a crowd funded litigation, enough people have already left because it has changed so much. Others are hanging around to see how much they screw up CW.

[Joseph Mallan]

Varent, on 15 February 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Ive been a gamer a long time as well Joseph. That does not mean you are not part of a MUCH larger community wich as a whole is comprised of a group wich does not have your same values. Just because you have honor and respect does not mean the YOLO generation of gamers does.

I think the fact that it already has not followed the timeline and the fact that the clans are coming out before community warfare speaks volumes for how much it will follow lore perfectly.

Will it be a good MW game? Sure. Big stompy robots, taking planets and territory, fighting the clans.

Will it be an adventure style game following the invasion and timeline? Extremely doubtful at best.

Does that mean you cant play it and enjoy the game still? Totally up to you. I enjoy it though im burnt out and mostly waiting on CW at this point to fully enjoy it once more.

Bottom line, its an online shooter and its also a f2p. This means it has to have a business model wich caters to making money and being profitable and cater do a group that WANT to play a fps.

Well if they want my money they need to cater to my likes. And there are more than just me who think my way, so it would be wise to cater to as wide a group as possible, even if it offends a majority. I am in a statisical bracket that can afford to spend lots of money on a game... LOTS of money.

[Varent]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 February 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Well if they want my money they need to cater to my likes. And there are more than just me who think my way, so it would be wise to cater to as wide a group as possible, even if it offends a majority. I am in a statisical bracket that can afford to spend lots of money on a game... LOTS of money.

so can I. But also keep in mind the bracket itself is not aimed at you. The micro-transaction bracket is essentially aimed at the teenager-early 20's crowd. The ones that will bug there parents for a few bucks to throw down towards a game.

This is mostly because they are simply MUCH more numerous. While I for example am of an older generation and will throw down hundreds of dollar im simply outnumbered by the amount of young gamers who will throw down 80 bucks tops. But that money adds up alot quicker in sheer numbers alone.

While they may cater to as many groups as they can. As a business its more important for them to cater to the groups that bring them the most money overall.

My own personal opinion is that I feel the game should be balanced as a shooter but should offer a decent mechwarrior feel. Wich I believe it will do to a degree with CW. Its to soon to tell though on that matter since YES, its still in beta... basically.