50 replies to this topic

[Thraize]

im using the trial dragon and im loving it.
if i buy this can i edit its loadout?
if not any other mechs that has the performance of the trial dragon?

[Tesunie]

You can buy (for MC, or in other words real money) the Dragon (C), or you can just buy the Dragons you can get for c-bills.

All Dragons basically run similar in build options. If you wished, you could probably run all Dragons like the Champion version without much to any difficulty. The Dragon 5N is the same exact thing as the Dragon 5N(C), just without the 10% exp boost (which isn't all that useful normally).

A good site to preview any custom you wish is http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab

If you want advice on Dragon builds, just ask. If you are interested in other mechs (or playstyles), just ask. Lost of people here that can help try and find the right mech for you.

[Baron Cunedda Kell]

im using the trial dragon and im loving it.
if i buy this can i edit its loadout?
Yes

[Modo44]

The Dragon is considered one of the weaker mechs in MWO at the moment. The high-skill brackets are dominated by jump-capable mechs. For that reason, the Cataphract 3D is recommended as stronger in most regards. Not that you can not do well in a Dragon, but it can be frustrating. There is also the matter of price: You need a lot of Cbills to fully kit-out each Dragon. Typical builds run well over 10 million Cbills, before modules.

[Ertur]

I think you can get similar, if not better, builds and survivability out of ShadowHawks. Can't say for sure, since I've never run in a Dragon.

[Tesunie]

Ertur, on 10 February 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

I think you can get similar, if not better, builds and survivability out of ShadowHawks. Can't say for sure, since I've never run in a Dragon.

You can run similar builds, but they will play differently. I tend to keep my arm mounted weapons shooting in the corner of my screen as I run around people, the Shadowhawk will have to keep it's torso lined up. It's up to personal style of game play. Each mech is a good choice there.

[Victor Morson]

Ertur, on 10 February 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

I think you can get similar, if not better, builds and survivability out of ShadowHawks. Can't say for sure, since I've never run in a Dragon.

This is pretty much true. Nearly anything the Dragon can do, a Shadow Hawk can do better - including jump, have better gun mounts, and run similar firepower.

Definitely consider checking one out OP. Any of the models are great, but I'd recommend the 2D2 or 5M to start. Great 'mech.

[IraqiWalker]

I am pretty sure OP doesn't care about the tiers right now. He said he enjoys the Dragon and if he can customize it when he buys it. The answer to that is "yes"

If you can make the Dragon work, it's a beast, yes the meta has it's own flavor going on, but you don't need to stick to it. I never do, and my scores are just fine. If you pilot a mech and like it, that's what really matters, if you want to get super competitive then you can look at those mechs as well.

[Victor Morson]

IraqiWalker, on 10 February 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

I am pretty sure OP doesn't care about the tiers right now. He said he enjoys the Dragon and if he can customize it when he buys it. The answer to that is "yes"

If you can make the Dragon work, it's a beast, yes the meta has it's own flavor going on, but you don't need to stick to it. I never do, and my scores are just fine. If you pilot a mech and like it, that's what really matters, if you want to get super competitive then you can look at those mechs as well.

Still doesn't mean I shouldn't tell him that the Dragon is absolutely outclassed by the Shadow Hawk, which will allow him to have more diverse variants, try more kinds of builds, and learn jump jetting while still running the kinds of builds he enjoys on his Dragon unhindered.

It's win/win for him. Even outside of tiers, the Dragon is often considered the very worst heavy in the game, so why should I not recommend the very best medium - a mere 5 tons difference, mind you - as an alternative to encouraging him to waste his cbills on a 'mech he'll want to replace in a month?

[Modo44]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Still doesn't mean I shouldn't tell him that the Dragon is absolutely outclassed by the Shadow Hawk,

You should not, because you would be lying. It is not as good, and it is harder to pilot, but far from "absolutely outclassed".

[Thraize]

the reason why i liked the trial dragon because of the gauss rifle.
pop out shoot someone and hide.
and also i find the dragon quite nimble for a heavy

[TercieI]

Thraize, on 10 February 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

the reason why i liked the trial dragon because of the gauss rifle.
pop out shoot someone and hide.
and also i find the dragon quite nimble for a heavy

Then you should absolutely try a SHD, as Victor suggests. It's more nimble and you can mount that Gauss way up high. Much easier to pop out/peek out and then duck back.

[Victor Morson]

Modo44, on 10 February 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

You should not, because you would be lying. It is not as good, and it is harder to pilot, but far from "absolutely outclassed".

You are wrong on all counts. There is a reason, again, that the Dragon has a terrible rep while the Shadow Hawk has a sterling one.

Thraize, on 10 February 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

the reason why i liked the trial dragon because of the gauss rifle.
pop out shoot someone and hide.
and also i find the dragon quite nimble for a heavy

You can in fact run a Gauss just fine on a Shadow Hawk if you enjoy it; it's got the mounts for it. If you do opt for a Shadow Hawk (which while a medium, is only 5 tons from the Dragon), try these builds (Variant depending):

2x AC5 1x PPC
1x AC20 1x ER PPC
1x AC20 2x Medium Lasers
1x Gauss 1x ER PPC (If you enjoy Gauss this works well!)
4x SSRM2 1x ER LL + BAP + Artemis
1x LRM15 1x LRM10 1x LRM5 1x TAG + BAP + Artemis
2x AC5 3x SSRM2

The big reasons the Dragon is considered inferior:
- Bad hit boxes
- The weapon hard points are in bad spots, limiting what you can do (i.e. CT missile hardpoints)
- Can't jump
- Flimsy arm pops off easy like the Cent

The reason I recommend a Shawk over, say, a Cataphract is that it will offer almost identical firepower & speed and nearly the same armor, which the Jump Jets the Hawk carries will pick the slack on.

Feel free to check out any of the 'mech lists on the forums and you'll see this is a reoccurring story. I really think you'll get far more use out of a Shadow Hawk (any variant) than you will out of a Dragon for sure.

Terciel1976, on 10 February 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Then you should absolutely try a SHD, as Victor suggests. It's more nimble and you can mount that Gauss way up high. Much easier to pop out/peek out and then duck back.

Another good point! The Dragon's ballistic arm is mounted very low, while the Shadow Hawk ballistic gun is mounted, as Terciel says, very high - you can fire after just peeking out over a mountain.

[Modo44]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

You are wrong on all counts.

Yes. Great analysis. Thanks for playing.

[IraqiWalker]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Still doesn't mean I shouldn't tell him that the Dragon is absolutely outclassed by the Shadow Hawk, which will allow him to have more diverse variants, try more kinds of builds, and learn jump jetting while still running the kinds of builds he enjoys on his Dragon unhindered.

It's win/win for him. Even outside of tiers, the Dragon is often considered the very worst heavy in the game, so why should I not recommend the very best medium - a mere 5 tons difference, mind you - as an alternative to encouraging him to waste his cbills on a 'mech he'll want to replace in a month?

Don't get me wrong Viktor, I like some of your posts and opinions, but you tend to focus too much on the mech and not enough on the pilot and their style. Is the Commando not outclassed by the Firestarter? Yes it can be, but I will pick my COM-2D any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the FS9-Ember (which I truly enjoy). Because the Commando is more fun for me and it firs my style.

Thraize, on 10 February 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

the reason why i liked the trial dragon because of the gauss rifle.
pop out shoot someone and hide.
and also i find the dragon quite nimble for a heavy

Yeah that set up is fun and you can run it on pretty much all of the Dragons. I also enjoyed running 3xAC2s on it and doing drive-bys on the rear enemy formation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the SHD is bad, or not fun, lord knows I own three of them, and they are a blast (I love running my 2H with LB10X and ERLL, it's stupid, but fun). However, I will say that anyone that calls the Dragon a bad mech is just not piloting it the way it should be.


To pilot a Dragon properly you want to be a light mech pilot. It uses a similar mentality.

Yes, there are mechs that can out damage it, and some mechs that can outpace it. Lord knows until the LBX-5 comes out it's gonna have problems, but it's a solid mech, and it can do great in the hands of a pilot that has fun with it.

[MavRCK]

Thraize, any heavy mech with or without jumpjets rivals the performance of the Dragon... the Shadowhawk is only 5 tons lighter and does everything the dragon does and has jumpjets..

It's a great mech and you'll be happy with it as you get better at the game for a long time to come.

Victor is pleasantly referring to lists such as my Tier List - which helps people choose mechs based on what is popular in 12-man groups and in solo queue..

Ideally you find a mech you love now.. and forever..

Afterall, we all deserve true mech love. <3

Edited by MavRCK, 10 February 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[Victor Morson]

IraqiWalker, on 10 February 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong Viktor, I like some of your posts and opinions, but you tend to focus too much on the mech and not enough on the pilot and their style. Is the Commando not outclassed by the Firestarter? Yes it can be, but I will pick my COM-2D any day of the week and twice on Sunday over the FS9-Ember (which I truly enjoy). Because the Commando is more fun for me and it firs my style.

By all means, enjoy your Commando for sure. But I wouldn't recommend one to new players; they need as few handicaps as possible.

IraqiWalker, on 10 February 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Yeah that set up is fun and you can run it on pretty much all of the Dragons. I also enjoyed running 3xAC2s on it and doing drive-bys on the rear enemy formation.

This setup works great on a Shadow Hawk too, as far as AC/2 boats go. I personally really don't like AC/2s much; I wish they'd get a buff.

IraqiWalker, on 10 February 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the SHD is bad, or not fun, lord knows I own three of them, and they are a blast (I love running my 2H with LB10X and ERLL, it's stupid, but fun). However, I will say that anyone that calls the Dragon a bad mech is just not piloting it the way it should be.

It's still got saddled with that huge honkin' chest, the hard points in locations you can't fit anything, the flimsy arm, the lack of jets.. only the Flame is really decent.

IraqiWalker, on 10 February 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

To pilot a Dragon properly you want to be a light mech pilot. It uses a similar mentality.

Yes, there are mechs that can out damage it, and some mechs that can outpace it. Lord knows until the LBX-5 comes out it's gonna have problems, but it's a solid mech, and it can do great in the hands of a pilot that has fun with it.

I really think the Dragon would be the very last heavy I'd recommend though; I even think the Quickdraw is far superior for the tonnage. It has nothing to do with the pilot, it's just the 'mech has too many.. bad decisions all kind of in a huge snowball (the Dragon, I mean).

[Alaskan Nobody]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

.......

Word of advice?
Whilst you are improving over how you used to do things (and you are improving, it is much easier and much more pleasant to read what you are writing when you disagree with people)
- the way you phrase things and how you say it is still in such a way as to encourage those you are disagreeing with to stop listening.

You are not entirely wrong with what you are saying.
But neither are they.

"The best of lies have a bit of truth in them"
And that works in both directions.

[Tesunie]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Still doesn't mean I shouldn't tell him that the Dragon is absolutely outclassed by the Shadow Hawk, which will allow him to have more diverse variants, try more kinds of builds, and learn jump jetting while still running the kinds of builds he enjoys on his Dragon unhindered.

It's win/win for him. Even outside of tiers, the Dragon is often considered the very worst heavy in the game, so why should I not recommend the very best medium - a mere 5 tons difference, mind you - as an alternative to encouraging him to waste his cbills on a 'mech he'll want to replace in a month?

The Dragon is neither out class, nor absolutely, by the Shadowhawk. It plays different than the Shadowhawk does. Personally, I have had some of my best matches in my Dragon, and I'd much prefer my Dragon over my Shadowhawks right about now. Actually, the Dragon's been one of my better stat preformers so far.

However, the Dragon and the Shadowhawk can run very similar. The Dragon has some problems for it's weight class, namely that large CT nose (blessing and curse) and it's odd hard point locations. It's more restricting overall over the Shadowhawk, but if used with the right skill sets and loadout, can be truly devastating.

This is a choice that I think an individual pilot has to make. I'd suggest trying each of them out. It doesn't hurt to experiment and find out what works for you personally. Most we can do is make suggestions based on information the pilot provides on what we think will work best for them. (And in this case, reading below, the Shadowhawk sounds like a more fitting ride for him.)

Thraize, on 10 February 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

the reason why i liked the trial dragon because of the gauss rifle.
pop out shoot someone and hide.
and also i find the dragon quite nimble for a heavy

The Shadowhawk does sound like it would be a better fit over the Dragon then, but don't count the Dragon out. It's still a very fine mech. I use it much like a "heavy Light", and I find it a lot of fun personally. I've been having iffy luck with the Shadowhawks, but I think I'm trying to find that "perfect" configuration for me with them... Sometimes that can take a while.

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

The big reasons the Dragon is considered inferior:
- Bad hit boxes

- Flimsy arm pops off easy like the Cent

- Yes... and no. The hit box placement is a blessing and a curse, as it makes it very XL safe, but most damage will be applied to the CT. I kinda wished they changed the Dragon's hit boxes to be a little more like the Stalker with the sides, but not as much. They did extend the side torso hit boxes around the CT a bit more, but I don't think they went enough either.

- Never heard the Dragon's arms being called "flimsy" before. Don't know about other Dragon pilots, but I tend to loose my CT long before an arm, but the arm can pop off from time to time. Then again, my Shadowhawk 2D2 arm's seem to fall off a lot easier...

[TheCaptainJZ]

To the OP, you can customize any mech you own. There are several mechs capable of mounting gauss rifles while also offering mobility. Please look at other mechs that have ballistic hardpoints in the arms or side torsos from: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ If there is something else you like there, list it here for us to offer suggestions recommendations.

To the rest, obviously, it is up to the player to pick his own mechs based on what he thinks. I think the main point from the OP here is that it's not the dragon he likes so much as the gauss rifle and mobility. As Victor pointed out, the Shadowhawk can do those things while offering more options, or simply doing it better. Nothing wrong with recommending different mechs that can do those things.

One thing I'd like to add is that having the GR in the arm allows greater movement and aim compared to having it in the torso. Also, it is easier to survive a GR explosion if it is in the arm rather than in the torso. If you have a mech with a GR in the torso and it explodes from damage, it will destroy that location and transfer the remaining damage to the Center Torso (unless you put a CASE in the side torso AND have a standard engine. If you have an XL engine, you are dead with the loss of the side torso.) This is something important to note about the dragon vs the shadowhawk.