285 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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Maneuverability is way more important than speed. Speed helps with this, but on its own isn't enough - if it was then everyone would be running 120kph cent-D's and such.

Tighter turning performance, better accel/decel rates, faster torso response, and better hill climb stats, are what mediums need more than a boost in speed. As much as I loved mediums without engine restrictions, there are still options for very fast mediums within the mix, though I'm finding 98 is a pretty nice speed for my hbk-4j.

Agreed. Thats why my example skill tree removes anchor turn and speed tweak from heavies/assaults. Only lights and mediums should get anchor turn and speed tweak. That would help seperate lights/mediums from heavies/assaults in terms of maneuverability and speed.

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People saying mediums are garbage, what idiocy. *Facepalm*

No one said that. They just said heavies are better. Which is true. And theres NOTHING wrong with heavies being better at combat. But mediums should be more versatile than heavies (i.e. more speed, more maneuverability, more module slots, better sensors/utility, etc...). Adding role warfare isnt a bad thing.

Ive done 700+ damage in a Commando. Doesnt mean Commandos are good. Theyre still AWFUL. LIkewise, you can do well in a medium but it doesnt mean mediums are fine and dont need a buff. They definitely need a buff.

Edited by Khobai, 17 February 2014 - 03:26 AM.

[Mystere]

Dymlos2003, on 16 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

People saying mediums are garbage, what idiocy. *Facepalm*

Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

No one said that.

Khobai, on 15 February 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

mediums are garbage right now ...

[Dymlos2003]

Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Agreed. Thats why my example skill tree removes anchor turn and speed tweak from heavies/assaults. Only lights and mediums should get anchor turn and speed tweak. That would help seperate lights/mediums from heavies/assaults in terms of maneuverability and speed.



No one said that. They just said heavies are better. Which is true. And theres NOTHING wrong with heavies being better at combat. But mediums should be more versatile than heavies (i.e. more speed, more maneuverability, more module slots, better sensors/utility, etc...). Adding role warfare isnt a bad thing.

Ive done 700+ damage in a Commando. Doesnt mean Commandos are good. Theyre still AWFUL. LIkewise, you can do well in a medium but it doesnt mean mediums are fine and dont need a buff. They definitely need a buff.

So mediums need a buff so I can be godly? That's not smart...

[ByteHacker]

Guys, If you take a look at the post carefully. It wasn't mean to state how useless and unpractical they are.

But rather give all of you a breather from the "Follow the Meta" view. It was meant to be a post with a joking like tone to convey that just maybe an average player like me can do decent in mechs that are highly underrated by most of the community's standards.

Not all mechs are equals and the same applies to us humans. One can make up for the other's short comings. For example, A Centurion-A like the one I pilot can quickly swing around a line of sniper boaters and cause chaos within the lines while still getting out barely scratched. But the same job CANNOT be achieved by mechs like the Atlas or the Highlander. This is because the centurion has quirks which give it massive arms that can be used as shields to protect it's vital weapon and engine systems. Though robust and resilient, the humble Centurion-A will not stand up to the mighty Atlas in a face to face brawl unless it engages in mobility and guerrilla warfare.

So now, maybe before we make anymore comments on how pointless they are, maybe try looking at it and playing with it with a different and fresh mindset.

[ratgoat]

Dymlos2003, on 16 February 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

People saying mediums are garbage, what idiocy. *Facepalm*

Mediums are garbage; Shadowhawk is simply king of the junkyard.

[Dymlos2003]

ratgoat, on 16 February 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

Mediums are garbage; Shadowhawk is simply king of the junkyard.

Priceless

[YueFei]

Butane9000, on 16 February 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

I guarantee you if you use a Medium mech as it should be used you'll see better results. Specifically follow these rules:

1) Always stick next to or pair up with Heavy and Assault mechs. Let these guys take the brunt of the damage, as that's their jobs.

2) Defend said heavies and assaults from enemy mediums and lights. Assaults and heavies aren't necessarily agile or fast enough to deal with these adversaries and usually get overrun when alone. Heavier mechs protect you while you protect them.

The issue I have with this advice (and it is good advice, don't get me wrong) is that you can do the same thing (shadowing a friendly Assault/Heavy) In another Heavy or Assault.

While 1 enemy Light or Medium moving close and moving fast near one of your friendly Assaults will give him problems, another friendly Assault mech 150 meters away will have very good shot opportunities to splatter that enemy. The big boys can protect each other.

It's one of the big reasons why PPC minimum range might be a big deal in a 1v1, but in many vs many, even though you closed within 90 meters of 1 opponent, you just put yourself into LOS of all his buddies, and outside of their PPC minimum range.

[Firewuff]

O pilot all weight classes. I prefer the mediums over assults with the only exception being my muremets which is just ungodly in its killing power I Have mastered all the lights and half the mediums, they are all good.

One of my fave builds is a Griff with 3 SRM... If I listened to the forums I should never get a kill and be dying in seconds. Thisis clearly not the case. SRM are effective, mediums are effective.... If you don't like them it doesn't make them crap.

[Khobai]

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Dymlos2003, on 16 February 2014 - 10:22 PM, said:

People saying mediums are garbage, what idiocy. *Facepalm*


Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 10:25 PM, said:

No one said that.


Khobai, on 15 February 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:
mediums are garbage right now ...

You took my quote completely out of context. I said the mediums that have scaling issues are garbage. Not ALL mediums are garbage though. The few that are correctly scaled as well as the shadowhawk are actually fairly mediocre. Theyre still worse than heavies but not nearly as bad as the other mediums like Trebuchet which is scaled so poorly its the size of an assault mech.

The point is mediums do nothing fast heavies cant do better. And when Victors go 80kph with jumpjets you basically have an assault thats filling the same role as a medium... theres something very wrong about that. Heavies/Assaults should lose speed tweak and anchor turn in their skill trees and they should be replaced with damage reduction skills instead. Lights/mediums should be the evasion weight classes and heavies/assaults should be the tanking weight classes.

Edited by Khobai, 17 February 2014 - 03:40 AM.

[meteorol]

Guys, could we please all agree on one thing?
Just this one little thing?

Stop creating a new thread 30 sec after you had a decent match in a non meta mech.

There are millions and billions of those threads.
I really don't want to look offensive with this, and this is not meant as personal insult against anyone.
But frankly speaking, noone cares if someone had a decent match in any kind of mech.

We already had so many "So you say the Awesome (insert any mech which is not top of the line) sucks? Look at this match i just played" threads.
While it is really cool that you had a nice match in your mech, one match proves nothing. Even 10 or 30 or 50 prove nothing in the grand scheme of things. More importantly, they change nothing. It won't make people leave their meta mechs and use something different.

OP, this is not ment in a hostile manner towards you. It's just that we have this kind of threads since the closed beta, over and over and over again. I'm getting tired of it. Just search for a "post your nice results" thread and post it there.

Sorry for this outburst. Cheers.

[MisterPlanetarian]

ratgoat, on 16 February 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

Mediums are garbage; Shadowhawk is simply king of the junkyard.

Well said.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Complete disregard for role play killed mediums more than anything else.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

MisterPlanetarian, on 17 February 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Well said.

It's correct, for sure.

So, I've been Shadow Hawking lately.

Three different versions.

A] AC/5 - 2 MLas - 4 SSRM

B] 2 LRM 10 - 2 LRM 5 - MLas - TAG

C] 2 AC/5 - ER LLas

Guess what? I have had 2-3 kill games, with 500+ damage and 8 assists in all of them. Earning lots of C-bills and XP along the way.

Does that mean they are good? No.

All it means is PUGing is VERY uneven, and if you drop on the right side, it doesn't matter what mech you are in, Locust/Trebuchet or otherwise...you can still have amazing games.

But that has nothing to do with the mech or your loadout.

All that means is your team was better.

Need to treat Mechwarrior more like old school WWF. You had Small, Medium, Large and Giant wrestlers.

Rey Mysterio is a Light mech. Daniel Bryan is a Medium. Hulk Hogan is a Heavy. Andre the Giant is an Assault.

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 17 February 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 February 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

Complete disregard for role play killed mediums more than anything else.

Removal of R&R killed mediums. It was expensive to run a (F)Atlas, It wasn't to run a Centurion. R&R was removed. Why run a Centurion when I have no consequences for running an Atlas into the ground?

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 February 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Removal of R&R killed mediums. It was expensive to run a (F)Atlas, It wasn't to run a Centurion. R&R was removed. Why run a Centurion when I have no consequences for running an Atlas into the ground?

I understand the concept...but half the problem is we had all these founders and such with so much money, that all R&R was going to do was keep new players in small mechs while old players could do whatever the hell they wanted.

And even if they reset everyone's c-bills at release, it still would've eventually gotten to that point.

I dunno, such a tangled web. I'd just like to see better scaling, and an adjustment to the manuverability/speed of all of the mechs.

Right now it's too muddled.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 February 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Removal of R&R killed mediums. It was expensive to run a (F)Atlas, It wasn't to run a Centurion. R&R was removed. Why run a Centurion when I have no consequences for running an Atlas into the ground?

good point Joe

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 February 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

I understand the concept...but half the problem is we had all these founders and such with so much money, that all R&R was going to do was keep new players in small mechs while old players could do whatever the hell they wanted.

And even if they reset everyone's c-bills at release, it still would've eventually gotten to that point.

As a Founder I switched to a Centurion cause I was making better paydays. If you played dum even as a Founder you lost money. Also Seniority/rank has its privildge. It is a natural order of things.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 February 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

As a Founder I switched to a Centurion cause I was making better paydays. If you played dum even as a Founder you lost money. Also Seniority/rank has its privildge. It is a natural order of things.

Yeah, but as I understand it, you were like me. You had a terrible computer to start with. When I was on my bad computer it was really tough to earn. When I play on my desktop, earning C-Bills became immensely easier.

But lets say R/R is back.

So every new player is trying to earn C-Bills...so they are playing Mediums and Lights...obviously harder mechs to play.

And we haven't made any changes to scaling or anything, because hey, R/R fixes all that right?

Nope, it just means the Vet's are rolling through games crushing the new players (sort of like now, Stalkers with XL Engine...LOL), and we are not keeping the new players. Which is bad for the game.

And ON TOP of that, the game was supposedly to be about all weight classes having a role and a job. It wasn't about Lights being the worst and Assaults being the best.

It's all a giant ass cluster now.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 February 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

Yeah, but as I understand it, you were like me. You had a terrible computer to start with. When I was on my bad computer it was really tough to earn. When I play on my desktop, earning C-Bills became immensely easier.

But lets say R/R is back.

So every new player is trying to earn C-Bills...so they are playing Mediums and Lights...obviously harder mechs to play.

And we haven't made any changes to scaling or anything, because hey, R/R fixes all that right?

Nope, it just means the Vet's are rolling through games crushing the new players (sort of like now, Stalkers with XL Engine...LOL), and we are not keeping the new players. Which is bad for the game.

And ON TOP of that, the game was supposedly to be about all weight classes having a role and a job. It wasn't about Lights being the worst and Assaults being the best.

It's all a giant ass cluster now.

On that bad laptop I got good results with the Centurion. Lights are not the worst unless I am piloting one. R&R helped to make it a thinking game. Do I want thae huge Atlas and the possibility of a huge repair bill or a medium that I can use and afford. It is exactly why Mediums were the work horse Mechs. They were affordable, and a government could lose 2 for every assault or 1.5 Heavies.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 February 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

On that bad laptop I got good results with the Centurion. Lights are not the worst unless I am piloting one. R&R helped to make it a thinking game. Do I want thae huge Atlas and the possibility of a huge repair bill or a medium that I can use and afford. It is exactly why Mediums were the work horse Mechs. They were affordable, and a government could lose 2 for every assault or 1.5 Heavies.

Yeah but that's now how it would work.

You'd take your big Atlas out, score a ton of points killing all the crappy mediums that people are using to farm, and end up making more than enough c-bill's to keep playing it.

R/R does not work how it was implemented and how the game was supposed to be set up.