65 replies to this topic

[rolly]

Do JJ's limit height via burn duration or ascent speed?

In TT if you had 1 JJ you'd only be able to clear the height of one hex (30m) high. If translated into game, really people having 1 JJ should only be able to jump 30m high, and do so slowly. That should hamper poptarting even more considering it would take you forever to climb (making you a nice juicy target).

If in fact people do put asymetrical JJ's, it just shouldn't work and their jumping should go wonky and face plant. I'd enjoy watching that. I'm definitely behind it causing massive shaking of their targeting reticule.

[Dirus Nigh]

Khobai, on 15 February 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

no thanks the last thing we need is more bizarre rules like ghost heat.

if jumpjets are too good just nerf them. dont come up with some cute non-straightforward way to try and balance them.

Are you for real? Requiring that rocket engines need to be mounted so as to properly maintain center of thrust is nonsensical?

I can only assume your dismissal is aimed at the OP, because you have not quoted any other poster.

[Khobai]

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Are you for real? Requiring that rocket engines need to be mounted so as to properly maintain center of thrust is nonsensical?

yes. this isnt kerbal space program. the physics dont have to make sense.

[DocBach]

Earlier Battlemech construction programs like The Drawing Board wouldn't let you save a design if jets weren't symmetrical. Looking at the TechManual right now, though, I couldn't see any rules that said that said jump jet symmetry is required.

Big thing for fixing jump jets would be to give the different classes of jets different characteristics. Light 'Mechs use smaller classes of jump jets, heavier 'Mechs use larger class jump jets; code slower turn and burn times for the heavier jets and make more jets on a chassis have better turn and burn times so assault 'Mechs carrying a single jet derive little benefit from it.

[Khobai]

the way it works in MWO is pretty simple. The exhaust ports on the mech are in externally fixed locations. the jumpjets are just where the exhaust originates internally... but it still routes it to the exhaust ports symmetrically.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 15 February 2014 - 10:02 PM, said:

Not really. Since it has zero basis in tabletop. And all it does is unnecessarily limit customization for no good reason.

You want to punish poptarts? then punish poptarts. Dont punish all the mechs that use jumpjets that arnt poptarts.

Really? Name me a Canon Mech that had unbalanced Jets alotted? Always 1,2 or three in a side and the same amount on the other side.It Should be a non issue.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

its not a rule in mech customization.

Didn't ask that. I asked for the name of a Canon mech with unbalanced Jets. There are times when something should be SO obvious it should not need a rule. Are there any flying vehicles that do not have symmtrical thrust?

[Amsro]

Rhent, on 15 February 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

This would be the change to Heavy Metal, not much of a change is it?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...58fe99a2469a972

Heavy Metal looks so odd like that. Nerf all you like, can't nerf me. I only take 1 JJ CT.

The Original Heavy Metal The Non-Metalander that can still Carrylander!

[Khobai]

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There are times when something should be SO obvious it should not need a rule.

But if its not a rule then you dont have to do it that way. Simple as that.

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Are there any flying vehicles that do not have symmtrical thrust?

Already explained that. The exhaust ports are external and symmetrical. The internal jumpjets just generate the thrust and route it to the external exhaust ports.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

But if its not a rule then you dont have to do it that way. Simple as that.



Already explained that. The exhaust ports are external and symmetrical. The internal jumpjets just generate the thrust and route it to the external exhaust ports.

They would also weigh more to have the ports stretch from Right torso to Left torso. You never struck me as a Player who would fight against a simple obvious balance. Whatcha hiding Kho?

[Khobai]

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They would also weigh more to have the ports stretch from Right torso to Left torso. You never struck me as a Player who would fight against a simple obvious balance. Whatcha hiding Kho?

By that logic not balancing weapons or ammo would cause the same problem. We can just assume that jumpjets thrust more to one side to offset the weight.

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

By that logic not balancing weapons or ammo would cause the same problem. We can just assume that jumpjets thrust more to one side to offset the weight.

Or we could you know... Balance the jets so we have symmetry. just like is present in every Canon TRO.

[IronChance]

OP: The current trend in poptarting assaults is to go max JJs, so I don't think this would change anything. If you wanted to nerf assault poptarts, then I think making Class 1 and 2 JJs heavier then they are now and take up more slots would be a better way to go, so that assaults need to give up something more than they already do in order to still perform as a poptart. I'd be OK with that.

[Bront]

I'm all for either requiring balance, or having JJ Hardpoints. I think balance is better, and it's a mild nerf to the 1 JJ mechs (though that may happen anyway if you believe Paul's nerf gun). That said, since there's little reason to bring more than 2 JJs most of the time, it's hardly going to effect most mechs.

[Joseph Mallan]

IronChance, on 16 February 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

OP: The current trend in poptarting assaults is to go max JJs, so I don't think this would change anything. If you wanted to nerf assault poptarts, then I think making Class 1 and 2 JJs heavier then they are now and take up more slots would be a better way to go, so that assaults need to give up something more than they already do in order to still perform as a poptart. I'd be OK with that.

On TT A Highlander did not get more than 3 JJ. unless you stuck in a bigger engine. Why PGI broke that Canon construction rule I don't get, but if Highlanders could only boost a max of 45M, maybe Pop Trats wouldn't be so strong? Its only a guess I don't really play that style so I don't know for sure.

[Jman5]

Khobai, on 15 February 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

no thanks the last thing we need is more bizarre rules like ghost heat.

if jumpjets are too good just nerf them. dont come up with some cute non-straightforward way to try and balance them.

This is an under appreciated post. I'm all for increasing the need for more jumpjets, but it has to be done in a straight forward way. For example, giving the mech fixed slots for jumpjets similar to how its done for AMS and ECM and listing it as JJ 1 of 2 or something. If this is done it has to be done in a very clear and easy to understand way.

IronChance, on 16 February 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

OP: The current trend in poptarting assaults is to go max JJs, so I don't think this would change anything. If you wanted to nerf assault poptarts, then I think making Class 1 and 2 JJs heavier then they are now and take up more slots would be a better way to go, so that assaults need to give up something more than they already do in order to still perform as a poptart. I'd be OK with that.

Who is maxing jumpjets because everyone I know runs just one to jump snipe. It's a major waste of tonnage considering you want to keep your jumps low so your profile is only minimally exposed. I would love to know what their logic is for investing in 3-6 jumpjets on a jumpsniper.

Edited by Jman5, 16 February 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Gladewolf]

Asakara, on 15 February 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Poor Jenner-D poptarts.

Agreed, no hosing lights out of CT weapon slots in your quest to "nerf" assault mechs.

[IronChance]

Jman5, on 16 February 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

Who is maxing jumpjets because everyone I know runs just one to jump snipe. It's a major waste of tonnage considering you want to keep your jumps low so your profile is only minimally exposed. I would love to know what their logic is for investing in 3-6 jumpjets on a jumpsniper.

Yeah, I used to do the same, especially on the 3D and Highlander. Didn't make much sense to have more, but lately I've seen it on some of the "lords" and I've heard second hand that SJR was doing it, too. I recently started putting on max JJs and although I'm certainly taking more damage per match, I'm also landing a lot more shots, so it might just be a question of taste. Regardless, the question of JJ symmetry seems irrelevant to the question of balancing JJs was my point.

[Jman5]

IronChance, on 16 February 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

Yeah, I used to do the same, especially on the 3D and Highlander. Didn't make much sense to have more, but lately I've seen it on some of the "lords" and I've heard second hand that SJR was doing it, too. I recently started putting on max JJs and although I'm certainly taking more damage per match, I'm also landing a lot more shots, so it might just be a question of taste. Regardless, the question of JJ symmetry seems irrelevant to the question of balancing JJs was my point.

I know we're getting a little off topic here, but if I had to guess, I would say they are simply preparing for Jump Jet nerfs. I wouldn't be surprised if they have heard through the grapevine what the changes are and are adjusting/testing builds in preparation. I have seen some of their guys do this a few times so they can hit the ground running as soon as the new patch goes live.

[KharnZor]

Khobai, on 16 February 2014 - 06:43 AM, said:

Im not being close minded. Symmetrical jumpjets limits your builds. You only get 12 slots in your side torso. If you have an XL engine youre down to 9 slots. If some of those slots have to be taken up by jumpjets it can prevent you from taking certain weapons or weapon combinations. Its just a dumb idea that wasn't implemented in battletech for that reason and shouldnt be implemented in MWO either.

You want to nerf poptarts? Fine I get that. But do it in a way that doesnt screw with peoples builds. And do it in a way that targets the problem mechs (highlander & victor) and not every mech with jumpjets.

I dont really care about poptarts, to me its just a part of the game and i deal with it as such.
Having said that i also understand that not everyone can deal with it as i do so i can see why its a problem for some.