Main Reddit Comment along with commentary from other rather 'internet famous' game icons.
To preface, I like totalbiscuit for his content and the things he has done for Starcraft Esports. I have seen his stuff from his early workings till now. Is he an ass at times? Yeah, but that only developed after his rise. Even then, before he exploded he had a large niche of viewership.
It really pains me to see this kind of stuff but it easily just transfers over to every other part of gaming 'culture'.
Ever visit the Command and Conquer Forums? Warthunder? World of Tanks? Starcraft 2? The list goes on and on. Tons of 'toxic' content from people. People nitpicking at every detail of every one thing in the game or content. You can fix one thing and immediately 2 opposing ideas spring up.
It is also pretty undeserving. At going through millions of views for entire hours of their lives to make content but a streamer, let's player, developer all get shafted by 'fans'.
Bah whatever, I am staying subbed to the people I enjoy watching.
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Community Toxicity
Started by DEN_Ninja, Feb 13 2014 08:05 PM
8 replies to this topic
#2
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- Bad Company
- 2,972 posts
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- LocationMichigan
Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:25 AM
The internet brings out the worst in people because it's easy to be an ******* and get away with it.
#3
Posted 14 February 2014 - 11:21 AM
The problem exists across the entire entertainment industry.
You see, people watch a bunch of YouTube or play a bunch of games after a long hard day of work to either relax. However, sometimes people don't like the day they had so they watch a bunch of vids or play a bunch of games to let off steam. Unfortunately, the best way to let off steam is, for those who can't find a smarter way, being a giant d*ckbag. A perfect example would those men who beat their wives and kids.
That's when the problem comes in. Internet is essentially an infinitely large sh*thole where one could be a gigantic d*ckbag to whoever you want, whenever you want, without ANY consequences or restraints. One could be an a**hole to those who provide you with entertainments for the slightest flaws they had, because it's not a face-to-face interaction and politeness and social norms and such goes straight out of the window.
That, times the sheer amount of stupidity, leads to the toxic environment surrounding the entire online-gaming industry.
That's why sometimes I go white-knight for PGI. They're a tiny team by industry standard and they're building one of the most technically complex game existed. They might've promised more than they can produce, but it's also their debut title and they're still slowly moving forward.
Anyway, I tell myself to always see the other side of the coin, and fundamentally, don't be an a**hole. At the end of the day you make yourself feel better.
Also, I like TB. He may be an a** from time to time but he's an honest, reasonable a** and knows his job. I can respect that.
You see, people watch a bunch of YouTube or play a bunch of games after a long hard day of work to either relax. However, sometimes people don't like the day they had so they watch a bunch of vids or play a bunch of games to let off steam. Unfortunately, the best way to let off steam is, for those who can't find a smarter way, being a giant d*ckbag. A perfect example would those men who beat their wives and kids.
That's when the problem comes in. Internet is essentially an infinitely large sh*thole where one could be a gigantic d*ckbag to whoever you want, whenever you want, without ANY consequences or restraints. One could be an a**hole to those who provide you with entertainments for the slightest flaws they had, because it's not a face-to-face interaction and politeness and social norms and such goes straight out of the window.
That, times the sheer amount of stupidity, leads to the toxic environment surrounding the entire online-gaming industry.
That's why sometimes I go white-knight for PGI. They're a tiny team by industry standard and they're building one of the most technically complex game existed. They might've promised more than they can produce, but it's also their debut title and they're still slowly moving forward.
Anyway, I tell myself to always see the other side of the coin, and fundamentally, don't be an a**hole. At the end of the day you make yourself feel better.
Also, I like TB. He may be an a** from time to time but he's an honest, reasonable a** and knows his job. I can respect that.
#4
Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:33 PM
Ever visit a movie review site? lol You think THIS is bad? Wanna-be directors and writers are a hundred times worse than wanna-be programmers.
That's when the problem comes in. Internet is essentially an infinitely large sh*thole where one could be a gigantic d*ckbag to whoever you want, whenever you want, without ANY consequences or restraints. One could be an a**hole to those who provide you with entertainments for the slightest flaws they had, because it's not a face-to-face interaction and politeness and social norms and such goes straight out of the window.
Mainly because they'd get punched
in the neck meat
with a pointy object
But that's exactly why online communities are the way they are. This community wasn't nearly this bad before OB. You always have that 10% but as the population grows so does that 10%. I try to remind myself sometimes that every new Dbag and QQ'er mean 9 more reasonable players
Helmstif, on 14 February 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:
That's when the problem comes in. Internet is essentially an infinitely large sh*thole where one could be a gigantic d*ckbag to whoever you want, whenever you want, without ANY consequences or restraints. One could be an a**hole to those who provide you with entertainments for the slightest flaws they had, because it's not a face-to-face interaction and politeness and social norms and such goes straight out of the window.
Mainly because they'd get punched
in the neck meat
with a pointy object
But that's exactly why online communities are the way they are. This community wasn't nearly this bad before OB. You always have that 10% but as the population grows so does that 10%. I try to remind myself sometimes that every new Dbag and QQ'er mean 9 more reasonable players
#5
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- 2,969 posts
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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:42 PM
PGI has made mistakes that those with a programming background can quickly understand. Most people (including, I suspect, quite a few people on these forums who claim to have one) do not possess this background and have no technical context for their criticisms. And since most of the biggest critics are either A) Founders or 
obviously just hyper-analytical and hyper-critical individuals judging from the content of their posts, I find myself able to dismiss a lot of what they say.
Unfortunately, I still find it hard to defend PGI sometimes because they're just so darn Aspergers with their PR. (I have Aspergers', so I can say that). They don't explain the majority of their decisions, they don't seem to understand what the community is really confused about, they don't flesh out the behind-the-scenes side of things in any real depth. One could say that they're not required to, but when you're a year behind on your promises and when a great deal of UI2.0 feedback appears to have gone ignored, then I think the community deserves more.
The recent uptick in communication is a step, but it's only a step. Paul tries, but posting bimonthly announcements and then rushing back into the ether for two weeks is not communication, and unfortunately he comes off as a flippant *** in the Vlog. We need DIALOGUE. It's the only way to get questions answered and details brought forth. They need a real PR guru, a Czar of Explaining Things, someone both sensitive enough to handle rabid loyalty to the IP and eloquent enough to put people in their place by actually helping us understand the thought processes going on.
Of course, I suspect that the real reason PGI gives us no answers is because the answers would not be all that satisfying...i.e. ("yep, pinpoint convergence and double heat sinks are some bad core systems and we screwed up with them, but it's not like we can go back and redo it all now").
obviously just hyper-analytical and hyper-critical individuals judging from the content of their posts, I find myself able to dismiss a lot of what they say.Unfortunately, I still find it hard to defend PGI sometimes because they're just so darn Aspergers with their PR. (I have Aspergers', so I can say that). They don't explain the majority of their decisions, they don't seem to understand what the community is really confused about, they don't flesh out the behind-the-scenes side of things in any real depth. One could say that they're not required to, but when you're a year behind on your promises and when a great deal of UI2.0 feedback appears to have gone ignored, then I think the community deserves more.
The recent uptick in communication is a step, but it's only a step. Paul tries, but posting bimonthly announcements and then rushing back into the ether for two weeks is not communication, and unfortunately he comes off as a flippant *** in the Vlog. We need DIALOGUE. It's the only way to get questions answered and details brought forth. They need a real PR guru, a Czar of Explaining Things, someone both sensitive enough to handle rabid loyalty to the IP and eloquent enough to put people in their place by actually helping us understand the thought processes going on.
Of course, I suspect that the real reason PGI gives us no answers is because the answers would not be all that satisfying...i.e. ("yep, pinpoint convergence and double heat sinks are some bad core systems and we screwed up with them, but it's not like we can go back and redo it all now").
Edited by Rebas Kradd, 14 February 2014 - 01:42 PM.
#6
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- 2,299 posts
Member
Posted 16 February 2014 - 12:08 PM
Rebas Kradd, on 14 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:
We need DIALOGUE. It's the only way to get questions answered and details brought forth.
No, we don't.
First and foremost; we need the back-end game stuff sorted out.
We *want* dialogue.
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They need a real PR guru, a Czar of Explaining Things, someone both sensitive enough to handle rabid loyalty to the IP and eloquent enough to put people in their place by actually helping us understand the thought processes going on.
PGI has been, in my experience, very interactive. At some points I wonder how they are getting anything back-end done while some key person is busy making and reading posts -
...and this is from someone who is STILL waiting probably a year later for a certain person who works at PGI to even *read* something in his forums inbox (a someone who actively posts and who's initials are D.B. ... )
Quote
Of course, I suspect that the real reason PGI gives us no answers is because the answers would not be all that satisfying...i.e. ("yep, pinpoint convergence and double heat sinks are some bad core systems and we screwed up with them, but it's not like we can go back and redo it all now").
I suspect there is a hearty helping of this effect.
#7
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- Elite Founder
- 1,633 posts
Member
- LocationWashington, USA
Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:22 PM
Rebas Kradd, on 14 February 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:
PGI has made mistakes that those with a programming background can quickly understand. Most people (including, I suspect, quite a few people on these forums who claim to have one) do not possess this background and have no technical context for their criticisms. And since most of the biggest critics are either A) Founders or obviously just hyper-analytical and hyper-critical individuals judging from the content of their posts, I find myself able to dismiss a lot of what they say.
obviously just hyper-analytical and hyper-critical individuals judging from the content of their posts, I find myself able to dismiss a lot of what they say.Source? Can you post the lines of code you're referring to? I'm interested in how you came across enough uncompiled (or are you illegally decompiling?) code to make this claim.
#8
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- 2,969 posts
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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:36 PM
S3dition, on 17 February 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:
Source? Can you post the lines of code you're referring to? I'm interested in how you came across enough uncompiled (or are you illegally decompiling?) code to make this claim.
I'm more talking about the realities of the software world, i.e. projects never get finished on time, deadlines are often a joke, bugs happen, sometimes early decisions get outgrown and have to be root-canaled.
When Sean Cove posted the UI2.0 discussion back in August and how it had set everything back months and months, a lot of people just went "Yep, that's programming" and went back to playing big, stompy robots. It hints at a perspective that a lot of the most active critics appear to lack.
Edited by Rebas Kradd, 17 February 2014 - 04:36 PM.
#9
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- Elite Founder
- 1,633 posts
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- LocationWashington, USA
Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:34 PM
Rebas Kradd, on 17 February 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:
I'm more talking about the realities of the software world, i.e. projects never get finished on time, deadlines are often a joke, bugs happen, sometimes early decisions get outgrown and have to be root-canaled.
When Sean Cove posted the UI2.0 discussion back in August and how it had set everything back months and months, a lot of people just went "Yep, that's programming" and went back to playing big, stompy robots. It hints at a perspective that a lot of the most active critics appear to lack.
That's not a programming issue at all. that's a design/project management issue. They wanted a product out the door, regardless of whether or not it was extensible. The result is a lot of recoding when you need it to be extensible. This is not a result of bad programming but of rushed programming due to design constraints.
The only way to see bad programming is 1) To see the botched code or 2) Lots of chronic problems in software stability. Since the game is efficient and crashes are not any more common than other games, I'd say their programmers are doing fine. An example of what I'm talking about would be infinity wars, where 50%+ of the player base can't even log in and nobody at the company knows why, loading a basic item can take several minutes and usually fails out, etc.
As much as people ***** over a few disconnects in MWO, bad coding is FAR FAR worse.
Though I am disappointed in the state of UI 2.0, given its production time.
Edited by S3dition, 18 February 2014 - 05:36 PM.
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