29 replies to this topic

[cSand]

Anyone remember this one?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Caesar

Wouldn't mind seeing this in the game. It even has a couple of "ready to go" Hero variants!

Plus "Double Blind" was one of the only BattleTech books I actually owned (And was pretty good if I remember correctly)

[Ngamok]

It's a Cataphract. Plus 2 of those versions are for Jihad and FedCom civil war.

[Maverick27]

I like that mech too though with the customization possible in MWO, you can essentially build the Caesar with the CTF-1X:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bfee8f29bcc27ad (though I can't fit the extra two DHS)

[cSand]

Fair enough...

but variety is the spice of life right?

[Hawk819]

it's coming. Just when is the question rather than if.

[Myke Pantera]

cSand, on 17 February 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

Anyone remember this one?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Caesar

I read about 70% of the books and the Ceasar was one of my favourites. Unfortunatelly i also think, it wouldn't add much to the game. Has only 1 viable variant at this moment in time, and even this variant has the problem of having 2 lasers mounted at the back of the mech afaik. So i don't see it coming at all tbh.

[verybad]

cSand, on 17 February 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Fair enough...

but variety is the spice of life right?

Yes, meaning we shouldn't bother with the Casesar because it doesn't add variety.

[Belorion]

Myke Pantera, on 17 February 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

I read about 70% of the books and the Ceasar was one of my favourites. Unfortunatelly i also think, it wouldn't add much to the game. Has only 1 viable variant at this moment in time, and even this variant has the problem of having 2 lasers mounted at the back of the mech afaik. So i don't see it coming at all tbh.

Well they could just add it as a Cataphract variant.

[cSand]

verybad, on 17 February 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

Yes, meaning we shouldn't bother with the Casesar because it doesn't add variety.

Captain serious, of the SS Bringdown.

[Butane9000]

Let's just get the Guillotine and call it good.

[Bishop Steiner]

Belorion, on 17 February 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

Well they could just add it as a Cataphract variant.

While it would set a bad precedent that would get the Make a Hero Venom Spider crowd frothing at the lips, the Caesar, because of it's single extant variant, and being a reskinned Phract, would be the one time I would say do it. Make it a a new Hero Phract if need be, but in this case it would work.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Ngamok, on 17 February 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

It's a Cataphract. Plus 2 of those versions are for Jihad and FedCom civil war.

Please do not insult the Cataphract like that.

It doesn't have a stupid anime mecha ray gun.

[Belorion]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 February 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

While it would set a bad precedent that would get the Make a Hero Venom Spider crowd frothing at the lips, the Caesar, because of it's single extant variant, and being a reskinned Phract, would be the one time I would say do it. Make it a a new Hero Phract if need be, but in this case it would work.

The precedent would be to add additional chassis that would act like a variant of another. They don't have to be hero chassis at all. In fact it would be better if they weren't although they could then have hero mechs based off of the new chassis.

Venom chassis grouped with Spider
Linebacker grouped with Mauler
Caesar grouped with Cataphract

The various Hatamoto chassis grouped together along with counting as either a Charger and/or a Thug variant...

[Bishop Steiner]

Belorion, on 17 February 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

The precedent would be to add additional chassis that would act like a variant of another. They don't have to be hero chassis at all. In fact it would be better if they weren't although they could then have hero mechs based off of the new chassis.

Venom chassis grouped with Spider
Linebacker grouped with Mauler
Caesar grouped with Cataphract

The various Hatamoto chassis grouped together along with counting as either a Charger and/or a Thug variant...

problem is that the Venom is NOT a Spider. It Weighs 5 tons more, is built on a different chassis even. The Caesar is essentially a Cataphract that was engineered instead of kitbashed, thus it makes some small amount of sense. The other ones? Not even close. That's like calling the Striker and Awesome or the Legionnaire a Centurion. Simply ludicrous.

Plus I can't wait til we get the Mauler. Between it's massive potbelly and ridiculously tall LRM racks it's going to be one of the easiest Assaults to kill ever and make the Awesome look sleek and durable. The QQ as I harvest them from my Firestarter, Hunchback or ShadowHawk will be positively delicious.

[Belorion]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 February 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

problem is that the Venom is NOT a Spider. It Weighs 5 tons more, is built on a different chassis even. The Caesar is essentially a Cataphract that was engineered instead of kitbashed, thus it makes some small amount of sense. The other ones? Not even close. That's like calling the Striker and Awesome or the Legionnaire a Centurion. Simply ludicrous.

Uhm... not sure where is my brain I pulled Linebacker from. I meant the Daboku...

The Hatamoto series was built off of a combination of the Thug and the Charger...

Even though the Venom is 5 more tons, its still a modified Spider chassis.

There are some other ones that are closely related as well. And them doing this is the only way (short from them adding their own variants) that we will get some of the chassis in the game.

Katana/Crockett being another.

[Bishop Steiner]

Belorion, on 17 February 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Uhm... not sure where is my brain I pulled Linebacker from. I meant the Daboku...

The Hatamoto series was built off of a combination of the Thug and the Charger...

Even though the Venom is 5 more tons, its still a modified Spider chassis.

There are some other ones that are closely related as well. And them doing this is the only way (short from them adding their own variants) that we will get some of the chassis in the game.

Katana/Crockett being another.

Katana/Crockett is the same mech, just Drac ego for the name. Thug and Charger are technically unrelated, the Hatamoto is a straight Charge descendant, the "relationship" to the Thug is the unimaginative (Wonder if the Thug was just Meta at the time?) Draconis Engineers just largely mirrored the Thugs armament, but it is in no way actually a related mech.

And that 5 tons sets one helluva bad precedent.

[Monky]

Grand Dragon
Ceasar
Venom

Could all be added as a special variant of an existing chassis.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The Grand Dragon and the Caesar are obvious choices for either new Hero mechs or special c-bill variants (slight geometry differentiation compared to the standard variants). Or PGI could introduce a new class of variant (aside from Heroes, Champions, and Standards).

[Escef]

Myke Pantera, on 17 February 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

I read about 70% of the books and the Ceasar was one of my favourites. Unfortunatelly i also think, it wouldn't add much to the game. Has only 1 viable variant at this moment in time, and even this variant has the problem of having 2 lasers mounted at the back of the mech afaik. So i don't see it coming at all tbh.

A problem shared by the Cataphract, Atlas, Quickdraw, and the Centurion (though the Cent only had a single rear facing weapon). Obviously, PGI has decided the solution is to flip the weapons to the front and call it done.

[Strum Wealh]

Belorion, on 17 February 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

The precedent would be to add additional chassis that would act like a variant of another. They don't have to be hero chassis at all. In fact it would be better if they weren't although they could then have hero mechs based off of the new chassis.

Venom chassis grouped with Spider
Linebacker grouped with Mauler
Caesar grouped with Cataphract

The various Hatamoto chassis grouped together along with counting as either a Charger and/or a Thug variant...

The Venom is even more different from the Spider than the Carsar is from the Cataphract (at least those two are the same mass ), or the Grand Dragon is from the normal Dragon (and, yes, those two are considered two separate chassis), or the Linebacker is from the Mad Cat!
Someone else tried the same thing not too long ago, based on the argument that the Venom and the Spider share the same "SDR-xx" designation scheme - and it's still just as wrong now as it was then.

Quote

EvilCow, on 03 February 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

Note that the Venom is named SDR-9K not VNM-something, it is also stated on sarna that it is a Spider with few modifications.

The original 75-ton Marauder and the 100-ton Marauder II share the same "MAD-xx" designations (e.g. MAD-3R Marauder vs MAD-4A Marauder II), but I suspect that you will find very few that will agree that the latter is simply the former "with a few modifications". Moreover, the Dragon and Grand Dragon are considered to be separate chassis (with the latter not appearing in MWO), despite the shared "DRG-xx" designation (e.g. DRG-1N Dragon vs DRG-5K Grand Dragon) and (unlike the Spider & Venom) being the same tonnage.

That the Spider and the Venom share the "SDR-xx" merely shows that the two 'Mechs are related, not that they are necessarily either interchangeable or able to be intermixed.

That being said, it is possible to make a Venom-styled Spider - it won't actually be a Venom (as it would be 30 tons, rather than 35 tons), but it would prevent setting a bad precedent.

Quote

Chassis: Endo-Steel
Engine: STD 180 (base max speed of 97 kph)
Jump Jets: x6 (LT, RT, x2 CT, LL, RL)
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous (5.5 tons, 194 armor points (92% of maximum))
Heat Sinks: x10 DHS (7 in engine, x2 LT, x1 RT)
Weapons: x4 MPLas (x2 LT, x2 RT)

All tonnage and criticals used; tested in RemLab

By contrast, the Hatamoto-Chi variants, despite their slight differences in secondary codenames, are actually the same chassis, and the HTM is an independent 'Mech from both the Charger (from which the general body geometry was derived) and the Thug (from which the weapon selections and layouts were derived).

Likewise, neither the LMN-1PT5 Linesman (which is non-canonical and therefore "does not count") nor the DCMS-MX90-D Daboku is a Mauler (all of the variants of which are listed here), despite the lattermost being able to (in-universe) trace some ancestry to the former two.

Edited by Strum Wealh, 17 February 2014 - 09:52 PM.