26 replies to this topic

[The Buddha Assassinator]

Played 2 games tonight, where one team was down 2 players because no PUGs joined the game.
Okay so here is what I would suggest. If one team is 10 players and the other team is 12 players, move a player over, and then we would have 11 players on both teams. That seems pretty easy to write a little script and fix.

I know there is a lot of people on here talking about matching ELO, premades, and by weight. I say this: that stuff is balance 201 or 301.

This is Balance 101. If you can't even figure out how to balance a 10 vs 12 match, forget about the advance stuff you are planning to fix.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Hekatonkheire, on 16 February 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

Played 2 games tonight, where one team was down 2 players because no PUGs joined the game.
Okay so here is what I would suggest. If one team is 10 players and the other team is 12 players, move a player over, and then we would have 11 players on both teams. That seems pretty easy to write a little script and fix.

I know there is a lot of people on here talking about matching ELO, premades, and by weight. I say this: that stuff is balance 201 or 301.

This is Balance 101. If you can't even figure out how to balance a 10 vs 12 match, forget about the advance stuff you are planning to fix.

At what point do you stop moving people around?

What if only one person drops?

Also, do you really think it would be that easy to balance the Elo if you moved people around?

It's MP gaming over the Internet. People are going to crash, lose connection, drop because they don't like the map and are douchebags etc. Play the game, and move on to the next match. If you are upset over losing, then maybe you need a hobby that doesn't involve other people.....

[Mcgral18]

I've had over two dozen CTD's since UI 2.0, and many memory allocation errors when loading Terra Therma and Alpine Peaks. Crashing is part of the experience.

It would be nice for that feature to be implemented though, along with re-joining after a crash. I certainly know I would appreciate the second one.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mcgral18, on 16 February 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

I've had over two dozen CTD's since UI 2.0, and many memory allocation errors when loading Terra Therma and Alpine Peaks. Crashing is part of the experience.

It would be nice for that feature to be implemented though, along with re-joining after a crash. I certainly know I would appreciate the second one.

Have you tried the Repair Tool? Search for it on the forums. It's an official program, not a home made remedy etc. Also, check for new drivers, both for Windows and your video card, that can make a huge difference.

Also, some people have had to uninstall and re-install the whole game.

For me, UI 2.0 was a big help, gained several FPS which were sorely needed, and I no longer CTD if I am alt-tab to browser window on a regular basis.

[Mcgral18]

Nick Makiaveli, on 16 February 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Have you tried the Repair Tool? Search for it on the forums. It's an official program, not a home made remedy etc. Also, check for new drivers, both for Windows and your video card, that can make a huge difference.

Also, some people have had to uninstall and re-install the whole game.

For me, UI 2.0 was a big help, gained several FPS which were sorely needed, and I no longer CTD if I am alt-tab to browser window on a regular basis.

The mem allocation errors are likely due to 2 gigs of ram, but a fresh install would probably be a good idea. It's been around a year.

[Quick n Fast]

Quote

If one team is 10 players and the other team is 12 players, move a player over, and then we would have 11 players on both teams. That seems pretty easy to write a little script and fix.

so what do you do when one team is 3 4man grps an the other team is 2 4mans and 1 2man grp? u want the MM to break grps?

Quote

This is Balance 101. If you can't even figure out how to balance a 10 vs 12 match, forget about the advance stuff you are planning to fix.

your right you should prob say way from that kind of math..

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mcgral18, on 16 February 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

The mem allocation errors are likely due to 2 gigs of ram, but a fresh install would probably be a good idea. It's been around a year.

Ah yea....that would do it. Missed that first time around. Need to stop arguing in other threads and focus on drinking coffee

I also recommend CCleaner. It's a wonderful program that will clean up your registry (used it for years on several versions of Windows and never had a problem) and is a great way to see all the extra crap that is loading at launch (ie Office, Adobe, etc) so you can stop that and save some memory.

Blackviper.com is a great website for tweaking your OS. Run by a gamer who plays with OS for fun. Breaks down every process so you can see what it does and if you need it or not.

Lastly, one option is to create a separate login just for gaming. No AV, no printer, etc, to save as much memory as possible. That said, don't even think of going on the Internet like that....I use one when I am beta testing, as memory leaks are common.

[The Buddha Assassinator]

Nick Makiaveli, on 16 February 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

At what point do you stop moving people around?

What if only one person drops?

Also, do you really think it would be that easy to balance the Elo if you moved people around?

It's MP gaming over the Internet. People are going to crash, lose connection, drop because they don't like the map and are douchebags etc. Play the game, and move on to the next match. If you are upset over losing, then maybe you need a hobby that doesn't involve other people.....

Those argument are completely ridiculous.

As I said, you can't talk about ELO and weight balance when you have lopsided games. You can discuss ELO and weight balance only when the same number of players versus the same number of players. True measurement of Skill might determine how well you'd perform in a lopsided match, but whatever ELO that PGI has been using...I can guarantee you does not represent your performance in asymmetric warfare. So you think you are good at torso twisting. That's all good until you face another mech ready blow your CT out when you turn 90 degrees.

I am not talking about disconnects after the game starts, I am talking about people who never even made it into a game. As for 4 man teams, I am not talking about breaking up premade groups: You have 24 players, 12 people are in 3 premades, and 12 people are PUGs. You could match them by doing A: You load all the premades in Team A vs Team B with 12 PUGs, and 2 of the pugs didn't connect. Okay, now you have 3 full premades vs 10 pugs, Does that seem smart to you?!

How about Team A gets 1 premade and Team B gets 2 premade, and then filter the PUGs into the left over positions. At least the number of mechs would be even. PUGs don't care what teams they are on, they drop in and they want to shoot something. So move them around to fill the gaps. If the disconnects are in the premade group, you can still move the PUGs around to make the teams even. That's hardly a difficult Algorithm. The only way you'd have an uneven game if 4 people failed to connect, which doesn't happen all that often.

Your last argument isn't even an argument, you say oh it's MP gaming, deal with it or get over it. You saying I am ranting here because I am on the receiving end of a 10 vs 12 and lost. Sure I don't like losing, but I don't feel great about my skills when I am part of the 12 man that stomped over some 10 guys who had a big handicap to start with. You think anyone voluntarily plays a game where they consistently lose every single game? That's your ideal player of perfection right there! Someone who don't mind losing! But you'd find that kind of person to be a rarity(and that's an understatement).

Why are all these people here discussing game balance, under the forum "Game balance" then if not to try and give devs some ideas to improve the game. Sure we might be talking into a wall, but at least I am voicing my concern. By your logic anyone who make a criticism should just go play in the REAL world or go **** off and play with themselves. What IS YOUR issue against a little feedback?!

Edited by Hekatonkheire, 17 February 2014 - 12:30 AM.

[Mycrus]

Hekatonkheire, on 17 February 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

Those argument are completely ridiculous.

As I said, you can't talk about ELO and weight balance when you have lopsided games. You can discuss ELO and weight balance only when the same number of players versus the same number of players. True measurement of Skill might determine how well you'd perform in a lopsided match, but whatever ELO that PGI has been using...I can guarantee you does not represent your performance in asymmetric warfare. So you think you are good at torso twisting. That's all good until you face another mech ready blow your CT out when you turn 90 degrees.

I am not talking about disconnects after the game starts, I am talking about people who never even made it into a game. As for 4 man teams, I am not talking about breaking up premade groups: You have 24 players, 12 people are in 3 premades, and 12 people are PUGs. You could match them by doing A: You load all the premades in Team A vs Team B with 12 PUGs, and 2 of the pugs didn't connect. Okay, now you have 3 full premades vs 10 pugs, Does that seem smart to you?!

How about Team A gets 1 premade and Team B gets 2 premade, and then filter the PUGs into the left over positions. At least the number of mechs would be even. PUGs don't care what teams they are on, they drop in and they want to shoot something. So move them around to fill the gaps. If the disconnects are in the premade group, you can still move the PUGs around to make the teams even. That's hardly a difficult Algorithm. The only way you'd have an uneven game if 4 people failed to connect, which doesn't happen all that often.

Your last argument isn't even an argument, you say oh it's MP gaming, deal with it or get over it. You saying I am ranting here because I am on the receiving end of a 10 vs 12 and lost. Sure I don't like losing, but I don't feel great about my skills when I am part of the 12 man that stomped over some 10 guys who had a big handicap to start with. You think anyone voluntarily plays a game where they consistently lose every single game? That's your ideal player of perfection right there! Someone who don't mind losing! But you'd find that kind of person to be a rarity(and that's an understatement).

Why are all these people here discussing game balance, under the forum "Game balance" then if not to try and give devs some ideas to improve the game. Sure we might be talking into a wall, but at least I am voicing my concern. By your logic anyone who make a criticism should just go play in the REAL world or go **** off and play with themselves. What IS your issue against a little feedback?!

So full of burn win

[Mechteric]

I think once we have lobbies that are a pre-match type of thing perhaps they can introduce auto balancing there before the drop commences.

[Wispsy]

You could tell your new team all about their enemies loadouts. Unless you wish to invalidate what is quite possibly months of work spent on that pregame screen.

[Sandpit]

As someone else mentioned, so if players are in a premade then what happens? Should their group be broken up? You're also not taking into account what happens when CW comes in and you're fighting for a faction. It's not going to work putting a Marik player on the other side to even teams up but forcing them to fight against their faction and help another faction take away their planet

[Dirkdaring]

Here is what I suggest.

Have the game wait another second or two and load a new person into the missing slot.

[Abivard]

the problem is often there IS NO OTHER PLAYER, for MM to put in the match.

So MM has a choice, drop them without 24 or do a failed to find match and start the search over again.

[Mystere]

[Dirkdaring]

Abivard, on 17 February 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

the problem is often there IS NO OTHER PLAYER, for MM to put in the match.

So MM has a choice, drop them without 24 or do a failed to find match and start the search over again.

That's BS. I've logged in at 3am and gotten matches within seconds.

The problem is the game is bugged and not loading a person into the slot.

[Quick n Fast]

Quote

That's BS. I've logged in at 3am and gotten matches within seconds.

The problem is the game is bugged and not loading a person into the slot.

That's BS. Ive logged in at 3pm and gotten no matches with in 10mins.

The problem is ppl live in diff country n time zones. If MWO had 1mill players do u really think all 1mil are on all the time? some times you just dont have ppl to fill spots.


Hekatonkheire

Quote

You have 24 players, 12 people are in 3 premades, and 12 people are PUGs. You could match them by doing A: You load all the premades in Team A vs Team B with 12 PUGs, and 2 of the pugs didn't connect. Okay, now you have 3 full premades vs 10 pugs, Does that seem smart to you?!

yeah..... this ^^ ... should never happen.... clearly u don't know how the MM works...

12man drops face 12mans, 2-4man drops face 2-4mans with pugs filling in the rest, 12pugs will always face 12 pugs..

Edited by Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, 17 February 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[FenixK17]

Kahnawake MechMaster Prime, on 17 February 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

That's BS. Ive logged in at 3pm and gotten no matches with in 10mins.

The problem is ppl live in diff country n time zones. If MWO had 1mill players do u really think all 1mil are on all the time? some times you just dont have ppl to fill spots.


Hekatonkheire

yeah..... this ^^ ... should never happen.... clearly u don't know how the MM works...

12man drops face 12mans, 2-4man drops face 2-4mans with pugs filling in the rest, 12pugs will always face 12 pugs..

I've played at opposing timezones GMT +8 and -6 and in both zones I've not had a problem finding a match and so far I've only failed to find match one or twice since CBT. At that, I'm not sure what your timezone is so maybe you are in timezone with less players so I'll concede you may have a point.

On your second point, you may have misinterpreted what he meant. He said 3 groups of 4-man premade. And no, 12 PUGs will never always face 12 PUGs. There can be 2-man, 3-man and 4-man premades mixed into the fray. In fact, you are the one who does not understand how MM works. Just saw the edit.

Edited by FenixK17, 17 February 2014 - 12:59 PM.

[Firewuff]

This is not as simple ad it sound. People have already 'dropped' by the time they connect. You would have to teleport their mech. They then know what mwchs were in the other team and where they are.

[Bhael Fire]

Matchmaking should be based purely on BattleValue...NOT Elo. The Elo method for matchmaking is not viable in a game like MWO.

With a system that uses a BV comprised of the actual combat value of the mech (i.e. the destructive power of the mech) and the pilot (i.e. the player's approximate skill level), asymmetrical matches could be possible AND fair. So basically, a 10 vs 12 match could easily be feasible if both sides had equal BVs. Also, hard weight limits would not need to be imposed either, as matchmaker would just match up against equivalent BVs.

Basing a match purely on the win/loss average (i.e. Elo) of the players is not effective in a game that matches random solo players and groups against each other. It would be fine if this game only used permanent teams/leagues, but in a game that relies heavily on PUGs to fill in the gaps for premades it's a big bag of NOPE.

...Oh balls...I promised myself I wouldn't complain about MM until after the new launch module...oh well.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 17 February 2014 - 05:36 PM.