214 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

wanderer, on 19 February 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Tonnage/space changes screw up stock designs, so that's not happening. Heat, damage, cooldown, burn time, crit power...those are good ways to tweak pulse lasers.

I don't really see a reason to care about stock designs if the weapon isn't good enough to use in the vast majority of good builds.

[NRP]

A little better. The reduced heat is more noticeable than the extra range.

Still not worth it over LLs though. Too heavy.

[Damocles69]

According to basic math, they are still terrible weapons. No reason to ever take one over a PPC, medium laser, ER Large Laser, Large laser in that order

How the devs expect to make a good game based on numbers and weight balance to heat ratios without a basis understanding of mathematics is beyond me

Edited by Damocles69, 19 February 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Deathlike]

Damocles69, on 19 February 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

According to basic math, they are still terrible weapons. No reason to ever take one over a PPC, medium laser, ER Large Laser, Large laser in that order

How the devs expect to make a good game based on numbers and weight balance to heat ratios without a basis understanding of mathematics is beyond me

Paul likes to "normalize weapons". Remember the days where LPL was @ 7.5 heat? At least LPL had a reasonable niche.

I haven't used any pulse lasers yet (will try them out soon after some grinding of the Firestarters). Reducing heat of the LPL from 8.5 to 8 is still not enough. That is why 7.5 value at one point becomes a lot more significant.

Med Pulse did NOT get a heat reduction, which itself sorely needs. For MPL dealing only 1 point more damage, slightly shorter duration, 1 point more heat (which in terms of heat is a killer), and shorter range for 1 more ton is still underwhelming.

If you look heat generated per second (go smurfy with the #s), it generates too much heat... in between the medium laser and large laser. That is a woeful choice. The heat generated SHOULD be closer to medium lasers like 1.20 to 1.25 HPS instead of 1.39. The whole point of using pulse lasers is having reasonable heat sustainability for brawling, and this is not quite where it needs to be.

Changing MPL heat from 5 to 4.5 would solve this.

Also, the current math suggests that the ER Large STILL generates LESS HEAT than the Large Pulse Laser (assuming sustained fire). Does this make any sense to you? Lower the LPL heat closer to 7.5, and then we're good.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 February 2014 - 07:48 AM.

[Amsro]

It was a noticeable difference in my Wubmaster 1S. The 4 Large Pulse Laser build is even cooler!

Fast melting mechs non stop.

[TygerLily]

The extra ton for the MPL is what kills is. The limited range was the secondary strike against them but this buff is very much welcome (tried it out on my Shadow Hawk and I was pleasantly surprised at how the striking distance felt). At least for me, the new ranges fit the distances I like to brawl...so that's good.

But the whole extra ton...either needs lower heat, even longer range, more damage or x.5 beam duration to really be worth it.

I can't comment on the LPL since I've rarely found a use for them (rather have a regular LL and two heatsinks!)

[Cactus In The Rear]

Like that they buffed it, dont think its enough to make the weapon more useful than a PPC or an autocannon.

Also like that they have made a balance change since they havent done so in months and high alpha and autocannons have reigned supreme.

Edited by Xanilos, 19 February 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[El Bandito]

wanderer, on 19 February 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Tonnage/space changes screw up stock designs, so that's not happening. Heat, damage, cooldown, burn time, crit power...those are good ways to tweak pulse lasers.

Lower tonnage/space will NEVER screw up the stock design. Just a FYI.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 February 2014 - 08:05 AM.

[Slashmckill]

The slightly lower heat and slightly increased range made the large pulse laser at least playable in some instances for me, but the range does nothing for the medium pulse. These just needed a flat damage increase to make the restricted range and higher heat worth it IMO, something like 13 dmg for the large pulse and 7 for the medium pulse.

Edited by Slashmckill, 19 February 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[FactorlanP]

Even with the range buff, Large Pulse Lasers still aren't worth the weight.
It's unfortunate, because wub wub wub is really fun on an aesthetic level.

[Dan Nashe]

They have buffed range, damage, and reduced (improved) firing time and heat since I started a year ago, and they're not OP yet so good changes.

Although tougher to pair lpls with mls now.

I'm testing out pairing lpls and standard lls.
If you add the range module, r5, wont lpls do about 8-9 damage at 450 meters?
And no ghost heat. (2 of one type, one of the other).
There's certainly a reason to take over ppc and er ppc, ppcs are just better. But that is driven by jump sniping heavily.
But a new player may have much more luck with lpls. I have good luck limb chopping.

At least now one lpl is clearly better than 2 ml. That's why it needed the range buff :-).
(Ignoring weight. Some designs have spare weight).

MPLs still in a rough spot. 1 ml and one dhs vs one mpl.
Lpl weighs 40 percent more.
Mpl weighs 100 percent more.

[Iacov]

i like it!
LPlas could either fire faster...or produce even less heat in my opinion to make a realy difference to llas
but i use lplas mainly for the wubwub anyways...
and less heat is always apreciated

good buff - but faster wubwub or less heat needed

my personal tweak input:
faster wubwub(decreased recycle time), same dps (thus less "raw damage" per wubwub) and less heat per wubwub

[Damocles69]

Slashmckill, on 19 February 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

The slightly lower heat and slightly increased range made the large pulse laser at least playable in some instances for me, but the range does nothing for the medium pulse. These just needed a flat damage increase to make the restricted range and higher heat worth it IMO, something like 13 dmg for the large pulse and 7 for the medium pulse.

I like you. You have a good idea.

High risk high reward play style

You need to make it worth it for a player to close on another in dead of stittibg back and takeing potshots in relative safety. All brawler weapons should have sugnifgantly higher damage profiles to their long range counterparts

Cough... SRMs...cough

[N a p e s]

Damocles69, on 19 February 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

I like you. You have a good idea.

High risk high reward play style

You need to make it worth it for a player to close on another in dead of stittibg back and takeing potshots in relative safety. All brawler weapons should have sugnifgantly higher damage profiles to their long range counterparts

Cough... SRMs...cough

Yep, exactly this. At equal skill a brawler build should destroy a sniper build if the brawler can get into range unscathed.

[cSand]

Mounted a bunch last night to check it out. Good damage, 2 of em together can be straight up dangerous. Finding the little bit less heat is nice. Wouldn't mind slightly less heat but even that little bit makes them much less of a PITA to use. Gonna be using them a lot more now (which is good cause I own a bunch of em that were just collecting dust)

People comparing them to PPCs... well, first of all a PPC can't do short range, and ERPPC has a little less than 2 LPLs worth of heat.. so you get ~ 20 damage out of 16 heat at close range, or 10 damage out of 15 heat at long range. Had 2 LPL, 2 LLAS, and 1 ERPPC on my Awesome and was having great success!

Edited by cSand, 19 February 2014 - 09:01 AM.

[Bilbo]

LPL worked well on my Boars Head. Still not cool enough for my D-DC without losing the srms. Still need to try it out on my Battle master.

[wanderer]

Quote

Lower tonnage/space will NEVER screw up the stock design. Just a FYI.

So that stock Wolverine-K I got would just have interesting lacks in the tonnage department when I bought it, then. Or it'd have extras. Either way, it wouldn't be stock.

[LaserAngel]

I'm still getting range and heat vibes from this thread.

• 100-120 m Small Laser
  
• 100-120 m Small Pulse Laser, 4 damage
  
• 210 m Medium Pulse Laser, 4.5 Heat
  
• 360 m Large Pulse Laser, 7.5 Heat

Any thoughts?

Edited by LaserAngel, 19 February 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[wanderer]

Frankly, they cut the heat a bit and speed up the recycle rate, and it'd work fine. Faster firing, shorter beam time and a bit of extra damage would combine to make pulses much more useful.

[TygerLily]

wanderer, on 19 February 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

So that stock Wolverine-K I got would just have interesting lacks in the tonnage department when I bought it, then. Or it'd have extras. Either way, it wouldn't be stock.

I never understood the sacred cow of maintaining the stock configurations. If there was a hardcore/stock mode of gameplay, or single player campaign then there might be concern about them but as is it's kind of a pointless concern.

Original topic derailment, sorry...