7 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yup.

Right now the field of Information Warfare is fought-over with a piece of highly-advanced equipment from the BattleTech universe called the Angel ECM Suite, presented in-game as the "Guardian" ECM suite.

The Angel ECM suite is a piece of equipment that can prevent the formation of targeting locks on hostile targets standing within 180 meters of an enemy unit bearing this ECM suite (the ECM unit, itself, is untargetable under basic circumstances, too). This can be witnessed in-game as the inability to obtain targeting locks on enemies that you can see with your eyes, but are near one of their ECM buddies. The Angel ECM can also block the function of enemy BAP's and target-sharing C3 systems within 180 meters, too, which is what you experience when an enemy ECM Mechs comes close to you and blocks your sensors.

There are exceptions: If you and you enemy both have Angel ECM, then you can turn yours to "counter mode" to block the function of theirs. Also a friendly TAG laser can cut through the ECM field and [as long as the TAG bearer isn't being personally dampened by hostile ECM] then your team can target the TAG'd enemy even under their ECM umbrella.

Now, if I may touch on the [BattleTech] Guardian ECM suite for a second. The Guardian ECM suite does not outright block the formation of targeting/missile locks on shielded targets, but does have effects on blocking advanced target-sharing.

The use of the Angel ECM equipment in MW:O (once again, under the name "Guardian ECM") has caused many headaches. Initially there were no tools to counter the Angel ECM suite other than personally equipping one (assuming you had a Mech that allowed it) and setting it to Counter Mode. This tilted the balance of Information Warfare entirely into the hands of Angel ECM users. One way to alleviate this problem was to give PPC weapons an anti-ECM effect that lasts for 4 seconds. After that initial change, the Devs overrided the Angel ECM system's ability to trump the Beagle Active Probe, and instead turned the tables 180 degrees to make the BAP trump the Angel ECM suite. This allowed any Mech in the game to "protect itself" from the short-range effects of enemy Angel ECM. Also, you can peg an enemy ECM Mech with a NARC beacon to temporarily block their ECM from working.

I believe that introducing a new piece of equipment to the game will buffet/supplement these changes that were made to the game rules in the quest for balance, and bring the battle over information to everybody's fingertips instead of letting the select few Angel ECM users dominate it.

______________________________________________________

• Since the Angel ECM Suite is very rare and very powerful (counts as 2 ECMs when engaged in counter-counter measures according to BattleTech), and mounted only on select few Mechs, AND
  
• the real Guardian ECM Suite weighs 1.5 tons tons and takes up 2 slots, and is produced in large numbers AND
  
• the Beagle Active Probe weighs 1.5 tons and takes up 2 slots, and is produced in large numbers, AND
  
• the Beagle Active Probe is currently allowed on all mechs in the game,

... I propose that an implementation of the Guardian ECM Suite be introduced into the game as a ubiquitous low-power ECM Suite, and the [in-game] "Guardian" ECM Suite be renamed to "Angel ECM."



The Guardian ECM system would not entirely block the ability for Mechwarriors to obtain targeting locks on enemy units.

The new rules/restrictions for in-game ECM usage would be:

• the Angel ECM suite can only go on the COM-2D, RVN-3L, etc., and has roughly the same operating principles as the current implementation.
  
• any Mech in the game can install a Guardian ECM just like they can currently install a Beagle Active probe
  
• BAP and Guardian ECM would each exhibit 1 unit's worth of counter ECM, such that a single unit with BAP would block the usage of an enemy with Guardian ECM (within 180m). Targets with both Guardian ECM and BAP can provide 2 counter's worth, but can also run their Guardian in Disrupt mode while countering with BAP.
  
• Angel ECM counts as 2 ECMs when trying to counter, so it would take 2 friendly Guardian ECMs in counter mode, or 2 BAPs, or one of each, to block the function an enemy Angel ECM.
  
• Angel ECM also possesses 2 ECM's worth of countering ability.
  
• Angel ECM's countering ability cannot be stacked with BAP's, and Angel ECM's cloaking abilities cannot be stacked with Guardian's.
  
• aaaaaaaaaand...
  
• ...Targets equipped with Guardian ECM will protect itself [and may/may not project a field out to 180 meters that protects other friendly units] from enemy sensors by decreasing the range at which enemy sensors can effectively target them by XXX meters.
  
• Mechs that are shielded by Guardian ECM will require X% more time to achieve Missile Lock by hostile Mechs without BAP, but a Mech with BAP may/may not experience this lengthening of lock-time.

Okay, you see those "XX's" and "may/may nots" up there? That's because we have to agree on what kind of benefits you should expect from a 1.5 ton, 2 slot piece of equipment that can be mounted on any Mech. It should be comparable to the BAP, which is also a 1.5 ton, 2 slot ubiquitous package. Remember that the Angel ECM suite is restricted to specific Mechs in the game, and that *may* justify it's very high value-per-ton, and that teams of Guardian and BAP users can still swamp Angel users even though their Angel counts as/requires 2 counters.


You would no longer need to run an "ECM Mech" to have some sort of defensive sensor-inhibitor, so everyone can participate more deeply in Information Warfare.

Anyways, my whole presentation collapses here because I am having a hard time nailing what rewards you should get for something that's basically the opposite of a BAP. If it's too good, then everyone will have Guardian, and that will require the use of copious BAP... I don't want everyone to feel obliged to carry 3 tons of electronics.

So, if you think this is the starting point for a good idea, please feel free to fill in some blanks for "What kinds of rewards should you get from a Guardian ECM suite than can be mounted on any Mech?"

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 February 2014 - 05:33 PM.

[Wildflame]

Start by making it roughly equal to BAP.

BAP:
+25% targeting range
+25% target info gathering speed (could actually mean a 0.75 multiplier?).

So GECM:
-20/25% targeting range (a 0.8 multiplier, so GECM and BAP cancel out as 0.8*1.25 = 1)
-20/25% target info gathering speed (depends on current implementation. If current implementation is 'time-to-get-info', then BAP would have a 0.8 multiplier, so GECM's multiplier should be 1.25. If it is currently 'rate-of-getting-info-to-x-constant' then BAP's multiplier would be 1.25 so GECM's should be 0.8).
If you want to include a missile lock modifier, keeping with the theme, we should make BAP -25% time to lock (0.8x) and GECM +25% time to lock (1.25).

The key point should be that GECM and AECM should not stack - the greatest bonus should apply. This should eliminate any incentive to stack maximum GECM and BAP except to counter the expected quantity of enemy ECM.

The downside with this approach is that BAP's benefits accrue mostly to the player equipping it, while GECM benefits all those under the bubble. A rework may be needed such that a player without BAP who is targeting the same 'Mech as an ally who does have BAP receives the targeting bonuses as well. Note - the other option could apply too, nerfing GECM to apply only to the 'Mech carrying it, in which case no rework is required.

EDIT: Fixed a number.

Edited by Wildflame, 16 February 2014 - 04:06 AM.

[Nik Reaper]

Prosperity Park, on 15 February 2014 - 10:00 PM, said:

So, if you think this is the starting point for a good idea, please feel free to fill in some blanks for "What kinds of rewards should you get from a Guardian ECM suite than can be mounted on any Mech?"

As ECM is supposed to be a countermesure to bap, artemis narc an so on it would be nice if active it would dissable those effects and as bap increases sensor range, guardian ecm could reduce the range at witch the equiped mech is detected by 200m along with 25% longer lockon and info gathering time as it has now.

So the benefits are if not dissabled:
- you can be 601 m away and not have a red triange over you if they have no extra eqipment or modules
- they lock on slower with streaks and lrms, and not gain the artemis tight grouping
- if NARC gets it's no destroyable buff, guardian will dissable it as long as it is active.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 16 February 2014 - 04:21 AM.

[Cybermech]

now adding in AECM - GECM to be in its original state would bring some joy to me.
I do like your idea, have some issues but its more personal thing towards ECM rather then the OP itself.

Main one would be around how much ECM mechs would be on field which would lead to more "girly mode" then is now.
I would really like to see some effort in ensuring those mechs that can use ECM to be weaker compared to other mechs of the same variant.

Some extra "flavor" is needed

[colsan]

The problem is that MWO ECM is more powerful than even Angel ECM.

AECM did not prevent detection by normal sensors, nor did it completely disable streak launchers.

Adding AECM would be fine (if it weren't completely out of the timeline), but even so, GECM needs to be seriously nerfed:

-It should reduce targeting range to ~450m (and that's still slightly more powerful than it really should be)

-It should increase lock-on time by 0.5-1.0s

-Confuse enemy sensors within 180m (still allow lock, maybe another increase in lock-on time)

-It should counter Artemis IV, NARC and BAP's bonuses

-Counter mode as usual

-THAT'S IT!


Then they can rework BAP and NARC to return them to old MW/TT rules, and the game might be interesting again.

Right now, if you allowed ECM on any chassis, almost everyone would always be using it on every mech. Even as it is, those few mechs that can mount is are dramatically over-represented on the field; only 5 chassis out of over 100, yet they show up in virtually every match and often in great numbers. That is the definition of an unbalanced system.

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem is that MWO ECM is more powerful than even Angel ECM.

Its more powerful than AECM AND NSS combined... since it gives NSS to every mech on your team in a radius.

[Rasc4l]

While I appreciate the spirit of OP, I don't think we should add anything that makes LRMs any more worse.

Perhaps a wider approach seeking to balance from several different points of view might work. Like the one in my signature.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Rasc4l, on 16 February 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

While I appreciate the spirit of OP, I don't think we should add anything that makes LRMs any more worse.

The inclusion of Additional ECM (as in making my Suggestion come true) could be coupled with a strengthened Beagle Active Probe... which, honestly , is something I think any LRM boat should have installed.

(I added Wildflame's suggestion about certain things not stacking, too.. which was a good idea to include.)

Edited by Prosperity Park, 19 February 2014 - 05:34 PM.