16 replies to this topic

[SnagaDance]

With the way SRM hit-registration is working atm I would say 'no'. But if it finally gets fixed I'll revert my stance on that, I like doing medium/long range SRM volleys in tight clusters.

I'll also be reverting my AWS-8T back to its 'Thugsome' load-out.

[Victor Morson]

Cody Furlong, on 10 February 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

Is it worth the weight to run Artemis on SRM 6s? I got two SRM 6 racks on my brawler, but was thinking of dropping it in favor of another heat sink or two.

Absolutely.

If you are using missiles, you want Artemis, period. There's very, very few builds that I'd say that's not the case on and all of them are pretty sub-par variants to begin with. It makes a massive difference to SRMs, LRMs and even Streaks - though that's an undocumented bonus. (25% faster locks).

[Mirenheart]

with the way SRM hit registration is right now, Artemis is a must for SRMS. that way, even though not all the SRM hits register, you're still putting almost the whole volley into them at a fair range.

Otherwise, you may simply want to give up the SRMS all together for now until they get fixed. SSRMS are just fine however, and they get a small bonus from Artemis.

[P5YCO]

To be honest, I've taken artemis off my mechs as for me it just means extra weight and not much greater hit from a SRM volley. Personally I prefer to carry more weapons or ammo than ancillaries that aren't really worth the weight or cost.

[TercieI]

I find it valuable enough that if I can't find the tonnage for it on an SRM6, I'll drop to an SRM4 and add it. That's usually as effective as a non-Artemis SRM6 and your ammo goes further.

[xMintaka]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

Absolutely.

If you are using missiles, you want Artemis, period. There's very, very few builds that I'd say that's not the case on and all of them are pretty sub-par variants to begin with. It makes a massive difference to SRMs, LRMs and even Streaks - though that's an undocumented bonus. (25% faster locks).

This.

Especially with SRM6's. It's the difference between tickling your target all over (even at 50m) and delivering a mostly on target punch to your chosen component.

The importance of this is increased by the dire state that SRM's are in, with regards to hitreg. I'd rather have two missiles of a volley register on the, say, RT of an Atlas, than the only two that register hitting a leg and an arm.


Each to their own, but I never used to use Artemis. Then I tried it, and won't go back. Even shying away from the LRM5 S'hawk builds due to not being able to fit it...


Disclaimer: I don't use Artemis on my 2x SRM4 CDA-X5. But if you've tried that, you'll see why.

[Victor Morson]

Lunatech, on 10 February 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

Each to their own, but I never used to use Artemis. Then I tried it, and won't go back. Even shying away from the LRM5 S'hawk builds due to not being able to fit it...

Try an LRM15, 10, and 5 with Artemis+BAP+TAG on a 2D2. That's what I run; only the Griffin offers a superior LRM platform. You only get 5 "trailing" missiles from the 15, the other 25 go up initially, so if you hold to fire the whole salvo will get past AMS mostly intact; if you engage someone without AMS, hold down the trigger and let the improved DPS add up.

The best part is with this firing pattern when you have a good TAG lock, nearly 100% of the rounds will go into the chest on slow mover (CT straight on) or the legs on fast movers (Spiders hate this.)

[Barkem Squirrel]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Try an LRM15, 10, and 5 with Artemis+BAP+TAG on a 2D2. That's what I run; only the Griffin offers a superior LRM platform. You only get 5 "trailing" missiles from the 15, the other 25 go up initially, so if you hold to fire the whole salvo will get past AMS mostly intact; if you engage someone without AMS, hold down the trigger and let the improved DPS add up.

The best part is with this firing pattern when you have a good TAG lock, nearly 100% of the rounds will go into the chest on slow mover (CT straight on) or the legs on fast movers (Spiders hate this.)

We do not want everyone to know, how to increase the number of times to hit someone with staggered firing, or how tag and Artemis make atlases cry.

[DONTOR]

Terciel1976, on 10 February 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

I find it valuable enough that if I can't find the tonnage for it on an SRM6, I'll drop to an SRM4 and add it. That's usually as effective as a non-Artemis SRM6 and your ammo goes further.

Actually Terciel Ive done extensive testing on regular SRM6 vs ASRM4 it is still much weaker, the only bonus is fires faster, and as you said ammo goes further.
The actual test I did was at half range and max range on an atlas. At half range the ASRM4 stll took 2 more alphas (stalker 5M maxed launchers) than the reg. SRM6s. At full range it was exactly the same however.

[xMintaka]

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 03:10 PM, said:

Try an LRM15, 10, and 5 with Artemis+BAP+TAG on a 2D2. That's what I run; only the Griffin offers a superior LRM platform. You only get 5 "trailing" missiles from the 15, the other 25 go up initially, so if you hold to fire the whole salvo will get past AMS mostly intact; if you engage someone without AMS, hold down the trigger and let the improved DPS add up.

The best part is with this firing pattern when you have a good TAG lock, nearly 100% of the rounds will go into the chest on slow mover (CT straight on) or the legs on fast movers (Spiders hate this.)

The firing pattern is exactly why I swear by Artemis, especially with LRM's. Tag turns them from a random splash over the entire target to a tightly packed deathball of high explosives hitting the CT, as you say.

I'll give this a go in a little while, thanks! ALRM25(+5) from a 55 tonner is pretty badass. My old Orion was only ALRM40...

[_____]

To the OP, I asked myself the same question as well. I gave it a shot on my originally 3xSRM6 Atlas. I had to switch to 2xASRM6 and 1xASRM4 and lower the engine rating down a single notch. I've only had a couple of games with it, and based on that I think it really only makes a difference between 50 and 100m (further out if you're firing at a non-moving mech). In those ranges, the tighter spread helps more missiles hit. So I'd say use Artemis for SRMs only if you have the spare tonnage and weight. In my case, losing something like 2kph and 4 "theoretical" points of damage was a good trade.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 19 February 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

YES. If you are taking SRM6s, run the Artemis. Otherwise drop it down to SRM4s and go without.

It's basically the difference between having those two extra missiles hit the part you want to hit, or having them hit outside your intended target area. In the latter case, it's better just to save the heat and the ammo by going to SRM4s.

However, SRMs are inherently a poor solution right now because of the broken hit registration. It's better to take AC/X if you have that alternative.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 19 February 2014 - 01:11 PM.

[Daggett]

I guess you guys are underrating SRMs quite a bit.
I've run several SRM builds and they all performed well.
Granted, i noticed they are not as insane as they were used to be, but they are by far not useless.

I even took my beloved Splatcat for a spin and it did about 650 damage in the first game and 400+ damage in the second.
And those have been quite average rounds. I guess i won't ever reach the 1500+ dmg OP-heaven of brokenness again but I'm quite optimistic to still get into 800+ regions in good games.

For my understanding of balance this is more than enough to justify bringing SRMs to the field...
Maybe the hit-register issues simply have cut SRM's down to the power-level they deserve.

Victor Morson, on 10 February 2014 - 05:17 AM, said:

If you are using missiles, you want Artemis, period. There's very, very few builds that I'd say that's not the case on and all of them are pretty sub-par variants to begin with. It makes a massive difference to SRMs, LRMs and even Streaks - though that's an undocumented bonus. (25% faster locks).

There are several reasons to not use Artemis.
In my experience smaller missiles like LRM5 or SRM2/4 for example do very well without artemis (Streaks however love artemis).

Another big factor (which goes together with the first argument) is the amount of launchers i use on a build.
The more launchers, the more precious tons and slots artemis will take.

So when driving a 2xLRM20 or a 3xSRM6 build i always want artemis because it won't take much space and works well with the already big missile clouds.
But on a 5xLRM5 Kintaro artemis would cost too much tonnage to be worth it.

So my 'formula' is: Artemis efficiency = Launcher Size / Launcher Amount

Edit: Of cause the heavier the chassis the less of an impact the launcher amount has because 6 tons are not the world on an assault compared to a kintaro.

Edited by Daggett, 19 February 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Daggett, on 19 February 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

I guess you guys are underrating SRMs quite a bit.
I've run several SRM builds and they all performed well.
Granted, i noticed they are not as insane as they were used to be, but they are by far not useless.

I even took my beloved Splatcat for a spin and it did about 650 damage in the first game and 400+ damage in the second.
And those have been quite average rounds. I guess i won't ever reach the 1500+ dmg OP-heaven of brokenness again but I'm quite optimistic to still get into 800+ regions in good games.

For my understanding of balance this is more than enough to justify bringing SRMs to the field...
Maybe the hit-register issues simply have cut SRM's down to the power-level they deserve.

Hey, I'm all for SRMs when there are no better alternatives. I have them on my DDC, which gets a workout once or twice a week.

[JigglyMoobs]

Cody Furlong, on 19 February 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

I currently have an LBX 10 ac in one of my ballistic spot, though i do have a second slot unused.

The problems with LBX-10s are that they don't give enough spot damage at range. In my Atlas I have and AC/20 for work out to about 400 M and SRMs to augment the close range fire power.

You can build a very powerful close range mech by using 2 LBX-10s with SRMs and medium lasers. However, you have to remember that you need to use that thing at very very close range, under 200 m, ideally in a face hug. Otherwise you will do a lot of damage (or it will look like it from scores), but no one (obviously I'm exaggerating) will actually die from your shots.

Whenever I get peppered with long range LBX shots, I just laugh, ignore that mech as not a threat, and move on to higher priority targets without even bothering to torso twist. Now, run into the same mech face to face on a narrow path, and it's a world of pain.