34 replies to this topic

[Sephlock]

Would you guys object to LRMs locking on faster to jump jetting targets (with the reasoning that you are detecting their exhaust), getting their Lurmpocalypse flight angle back against targets that are in the air, and taking longer to lose lock vs targets that have recently jumped?

[wanderer]

Yep. LRMs aren't heatseekers, nor does it fix the real problem. Poptarters with lasers aren't a problem, or missiles.

It's PPCs and ACs, and the ability to accurately snipe on the jump that make poptarting a problem.

[Charons Little Helper]

With artemis (even without tag) - you can lock onto a pop-tart if you're pretty quick. And with the target decay module you can keep the lock long enough if you're within 500 meters or so.

[PhoenixFire55]

Jeez, how does the missile lock adjustment thread develop into pop-tarting nerf thread at 1st post? lol

I think it should be easier to aquire lock but also much easier to lose lock, especially with streaks. Target decay module makes missiles too good, you can be 1 on 1, lose visual and missiles will still be locked for like 5 seconds. With SSRMs I think you have to always stay within the box to keep lock.

[SI The Joker]

Tag should mark the mech, break ECM at range and last for 20+ seconds so that any salvos that are in-flight have a chance to reach target before lock is lost.

[Alcom Isst]

wanderer, on 21 February 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Yep. LRMs aren't heatseekers, nor does it fix the real problem. Poptarters with lasers aren't a problem, or missiles.

It's PPCs and ACs, and the ability to accurately snipe on the jump that make poptarting a problem.

I believe the idea here is to counter the poptarts by using the LRMs as the poptarts use their PPCs and ACs. It would bring a nice risk to poptarting, as faster jumping mechs not pop-tarting could just evade the barrage that had the lock bonus. Meanwhile Shadowhawks, Cataphracts, Victors, and Highlanders would have little choice but to tank an LRM60. They still have their accurate pinpoint damage.

Inquiry: Does a Tag lock on an ECM covered mech have the same target decay as normal lock?

[SI The Joker]

Alcom Isst, on 21 February 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Inquiry: Does a Tag lock on an ECM covered mech have the same target decay as normal lock?

I believe it does.

Either way, the amount of time that TAG affects a given mech is woefully small.

Edited by SI The Joker, 21 February 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[wanderer]

Quote

I believe the idea here is to counter the poptarts by using the LRMs as the poptarts use their PPCs and ACs

Which doesn't actually fix the real problem, which are the PPCs and ACs. Great, you made LRMs anti-poptart.

They still have guns that ignore damage spread, which is the reason poptarting is effective.

[Alcom Isst]

SI The Joker, on 21 February 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Either way, the amount of time that TAG affects a given mech is woefully small.

Why?

[SI The Joker]

Alcom Isst, on 21 February 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Why?

I'll preface and say I'm not an avid LRM user, but I do use them on occasion if I'm feeling a bit lazy. I've also used (and then removed) TAG. I'm also not married to this concept, it was something that I came up with on a whim.

Put yourself out at 700+ meters. Pop a tag on a mech and fire your LRMs. By the time they reach, your tag is long gone, unless you hold TAG on that target.

If you aren't out there actively following your target with TAG (hence putting your long range assets in direct line of fire which doesn't seem logical) your TAG is pretty darn useless. Even if on a light mech... what, you put your ECM raven with TAG out there against a dual gauss anything... no more Raven.

Instead, TAG requires x seconds of on-target time which then tags the mech for Y seconds which gives a player enough time to get lock, fire and actually have the LRMs reach their target instead of falling short or hitting some random spot on the map.

Again, not married to this, just a quick idea. Not like I expect it to be implemented.

[Voivode]

I kind of like this idea. Rather than balance out game mechanic exploits with a nerf, introduce a hard counter to that exploit. A bit of a "if paper is OP, introduce scissors" mentality instead of the old "if paper is OP, remove paper".

It would certainly allow pop tart snipers to keep a place in the game but prevent it from being the go to tactic as an LRM mech can demolish you.

Edited by Voivode, 21 February 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Belorion]

Send a scout to the flank and tag the pop-tart...

nothing else needed.

[Mechteric]

Not necessarily a terrible idea... but um wouldn't the poptart most likely just land safely behind cover that can't be reached by LRMs anyway rendering it pointless?

You're better off sending fast LRM skirmishers to the flank to flush em out.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 21 February 2014 - 08:40 AM.

[wanderer]

Mind you, TAG originally had a max range of 450, not 750m- which meant LRMs didn't usually need much TAG lock time to reach target.

Giving them a brief, lingering effect would help- even a second or two more.

[FactorlanP]

wanderer, on 21 February 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Mind you, TAG originally had a max range of 450, not 750m- which meant LRMs didn't usually need much TAG lock time to reach target.

Giving them a brief, lingering effect would help- even a second or two more.

I would support TAG effect being extended a little bit longer.

I would also be interested in exploring the effects of speeding LRMs (and SRMs, but thats another topic) up a bit.

AMS seems a bit too effective to me (especially since it can fire through buildings, mountains, etc etc), a missile speed increase would indirectly lessen the effectiveness of AMS.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Well, I am not sure we should try to curb one meta by encouraging the use of another.

Poptarting might be annoying and down right dangerous, but creating an LRM meta where the skies are blackened with LRM missile trails doesn't sound like a good idea either.

Jump Jets need a mechanic tweak that at least somewhat stays in the cannon theme of JJs (scaling terrain and evasion), yet has enough of a limiting factor to prevent them from being spammed for sniping.

[Quick n Fast]

if u really wanna fix pot tarts add more screen shake to JJs... don't like screen shake don't poptart or JJ problem solved. I don't see how ppl can qq bout the shake.. it adds realism...and if it gives u motion sickness.. y would u even use it.. suck it up its a video game.. pop some asprin an come graval an deal with it.. also how the heck its It that JJ'ing has less shake then walking around? is there like some kind of super awesome custom shock absorber that only kicks in when u jj an not when walkin around or something?? doesn't make since..

[No Guts No Glory]

Don't need screen shake at all, just introduce a large random cone of fire to weapons when fired while jumpjetting. Goodbye poptarts.

[Charons Little Helper]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 February 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

Poptarting might be annoying and down right dangerous, but creating an LRM meta where the skies are blackened with LRM missile trails doesn't sound like a good idea either.

Though - an argument can be made - if there are a bunch of different metas at the same time - is there really a meta at all?

[Corvus Antaka]

imho faster lockon times and better adv target decay sync would help tons with those flashing in and out locks we get with pop-tart/ECM bubble, and bring back a much needed tactical aspect to MWO - the use of LRMS in any battle, not just low tier players where ECM and pop-tarts dont exist.