404 replies to this topic

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 05 March 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

(I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, I know...)

feel your pain.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Cimarb, on 05 March 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

I'm pretty **** about semantics too, since the most well thought out post can easily be derailed by someone thinking you meant something completely different than you did.

If you get a chance, click on the link in my signature. The numbers can be adjusted, but it gives my impression of how the manufacturers could be used to give a ton of balance and variety to autocannons (and every other system too). It was also a good, long discussion that covered a lot of the things that keep popping back up in other threads about this topic.

I'll take a look at it later today. I think we can see balanced functionality using multiple manufactuerers making it so we have less of the cookie-cutter builds and a lot more variety within the game.

[Davers]

So, 11 pages. Any Dev response?

[Mirkk Defwode]

Davers, on 05 March 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

So, 11 pages. Any Dev response?

Not that I saw.

[FactorlanP]

Davers, on 05 March 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

So, 11 pages. Any Dev response?

Did any of us really expect to get any Dev interaction here? I would be blown away if they jumped in here and started talking about this with us. Heck, I might even start spending money on the game again.

But, no... No response... Just as expected.

[Cimarb]

Davers, on 05 March 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

So, 11 pages. Any Dev response?

HAH, I chuckled

No, seriously, I did...

Edited by Cimarb, 05 March 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[stjobe]

Cimarb, on 05 March 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

HAH, I chuckled

No, seriously, I did...

I only smiled slightly at the naiveté of the question... I can't even remember when a dev last posted an answer in a thread. I'd go look it up on the dev tracker, but I don't feel like being depressed tonight.

[Varent]

stjobe, on 05 March 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

I only smiled slightly at the naiveté of the question... I can't even remember when a dev last posted an answer in a thread. I'd go look it up on the dev tracker, but I don't feel like being depressed tonight.

I believe... it was narc....think there might have been a response to ghost heat.

thats about as far back as I remember.

sad panda.

[Davers]

Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

I believe... it was narc....think there might have been a response to ghost heat.

thats about as far back as I remember.

sad panda.

Does starting a thread then chiming in on page 22 'sorry about the delay' count as an answer?

[Varent]

Davers, on 05 March 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Does starting a thread then chiming in on page 22 'sorry about the delay' count as an answer?

It was a direct response to another thread or two. So it counts as an answer.

[Cimarb]

stjobe, on 05 March 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

I only smiled slightly at the naiveté of the question... I can't even remember when a dev last posted an answer in a thread. I'd go look it up on the dev tracker, but I don't feel like being depressed tonight.

Yeah, Paul just responded to his Narc update that is two months overdue. I'm going to encourage it, though, not whine about the lack elsewhere.

[wanderer]

Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

found another example of a single shot ac20. Not that I really like using sarna but since people keep throwing out sarna examples of why its not BT.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thunder

Weapons and Equipment
The primary weapon on the Thunder is the massive Kali Yama Big Bore Autocannon/20 which is capable of devastating most lighter 'Mechs with a single shot.

"Shot" in this case, like 99.9999% of 'Mech sized autocannons refers to a single burst of fire. Not a single shell. It's a 120mm burst-fire gun, Here's the Thunder in action:

Quote

Finally, the blow he'd been waiting for arrived, smashing into the Thunder's head. His right, eye-like viewport shattered inward, spraying the cockpit with shards of ferroglass. Shaking off the stunning effect—what could easily have been a killing blow—Gossett floated his targeting reticule over the War Dog's frame. At point-blank range the commander picked up an easy target lock, pulling back on the main triggers on each control stick. The left trigger fired all three of the Thunder's medium pulse lasers, their ruby darts stitching into the already-damaged armor on the War Dog's right leg and body, laying the leg open to the skeleton beneath. The right activated the Kali Yama autocannon, its twelve-centimeter armor-piercing slugs ripping out of the barrel and slamming into the War Dog's right arm. The slugs tore open armor, pierced myomer flesh, and ate into the skeleton beneath.

(bolded text for emphasis, quote from Threads of Ambition)


MWO flat-out does autocannon fire wrong. While 'Mech-sized AC's vary in burst size from 3 to many, all of them fire bursts of shells, not a single shot. That the result is FLD in MWO that makes the weapon superior beyond all others that have damage spread built-in is icing on the cake that reads "FIX ME".

[Varent]

wanderer, on 05 March 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

"Shot" in this case, like 99.9999% of 'Mech sized autocannons refers to a single burst of fire. Not a single shell. It's a 120mm burst-fire gun, Here's the Thunder in action:



(bolded text for emphasis, quote from Threads of Ambition)


MWO flat-out does autocannon fire wrong. While 'Mech-sized AC's vary in burst size from 3 to many, all of them fire bursts of shells, not a single shot. That the result is FLD in MWO that makes the weapon superior beyond all others that have damage spread built-in is icing on the cake that reads "FIX ME".

your clearly entitled to your opinion. Others are clearly entitled to their own. Many feel the auto cannon are done right and like it how it is. There are nice middle ground options *as seen above* I could interpret that a very different way translation wise as well. Arguing with you however would be pointless and waist valuable minutes of my life that I could be spent doing something useful.

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

your clearly entitled to your opinion. Others are clearly entitled to their own. Many feel the auto cannon are done right and like it how it is. There are nice middle ground options *as seen above* I could interpret that a very different way translation wise as well. Arguing with you however would be pointless and waist valuable minutes of my life that I could be spent doing something useful.

"Many" feel that having their weapon superior to all other weapons is a likable scenario. I bet "many" liked the LRMpocalypse as well.

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 05 March 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

"Many" feel that having their weapon superior to all other weapons is a likable scenario. I bet "many" liked the LRMpocalypse as well.

tbh Ive always been fond of going against the meta. Jump sniping has always left a bad taste in my mouth since it just never felt..... right... Ive always used missles, lrms and srms and loved them, even when they were good and bad and even now with poor hit detection. Very few of my arguments for and against things are based on my own opinion since I don't really use them that much. Most of my own opinions are based on the fact that I simply don't feel its right to eliminate any play styles or concepts. That is my opinion.

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

tbh Ive always been fond of going against the meta. Jump sniping has always left a bad taste in my mouth since it just never felt..... right... Ive always used missles, lrms and srms and loved them, even when they were good and bad and even now with poor hit detection. Very few of my arguments for and against things are based on my own opinion since I don't really use them that much. Most of my own opinions are based on the fact that I simply don't feel its right to eliminate any play styles or concepts. That is my opinion.

I appreciate that, but maybe you should use them to get an appreciation for how they work. I did that with SRMs when you suggested it, and while I am not very good with them, I made them my preferred missiles on my daily-used Thunderbolt with pretty good success.

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 05 March 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

I appreciate that, but maybe you should use them to get an appreciation for how they work. I did that with SRMs when you suggested it, and while I am not very good with them, I made them my preferred missiles on my daily-used Thunderbolt with pretty good success.

oh I use them. I just hate using them lol. I lead a guild, up till lately that ive been taking a lot of breaks for personal reasons, Iused to play about 6 hours a day. at least one to two of those hours was dedicated to helping lead 12 mans and helping people train or just running organized drops where I had to jump snipe. I have an over 2.0 k-d ratio on my 733 and on my dragonslayer. That said I just... don't like them... at all. And while the meta leans itself to it (or has due to the issues weve all gone over again and again) Ive always found that when I can break through the distance barrier and get to brawling range I always tend to do better and have more fun. As an example my current highest win to loss ratio is actually (believe it or not) my wolverines, with 2 of them over 4.25. Love those flanking srm tossing little buggers. That said a lot of my friends love and swear by jump sniping. They enjoy it. That's fine, they can get there jollies however they like and they don't deserve to have there style of play eliminated. made harder? Made even incredibly hard? Yes. (IMO) eliminated... no.

Edited by Varent, 05 March 2014 - 09:42 PM.

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 09:41 PM, said:

oh I use them. I just hate using them lol. I lead a guild, up till lately that ive been taking a lot of breaks for personal reasons, Iused to play about 6 hours a day. at least one to two of those hours was dedicated to helping lead 12 mans and helping people train or just running organized drops where I had to jump snipe. I have an over 2.0 k-d ratio on my 733 and on my dragonslayer. That said I just... don't like them... at all. And while the meta leans itself to it (or has due to the issues weve all gone over again and again) Ive always found that when I can break through the distance barrier and get to brawling range I always tend to do better and have more fun. As an example my current highest win to loss ratio is actually (believe it or not) my wolverines, with 2 of them over 4.25. Love those flanking srm tossing little buggers. That said a lot of my friends love and swear by jump sniping. They enjoy it. That's fine, they can get there jollies however they like and they don't deserve to have there style of play eliminated. made harder? Made even incredibly hard? Yes. (IMO) eliminated... no.

What suggestion are you referring to that would "eliminate" any particular style of play?

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 05 March 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

What suggestion are you referring to that would "eliminate" any particular style of play?

What most people tend to suggest? There are a lot of radical views. I actually like yours since you take a middle ground. Wich is my own personal philosophy. Ive seen oh.... off the top of my head the last one I saw basically suggested all weapons firing in 10 second intervals and only doing the exact BT value over those 10 seconds... I want you for a moment to imagine the ac2 firing every ten seconds..... *winces* I think I would be able to take a quick beer run to the fridge in between shots.

[Zordicron]

Varent, on 05 March 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

What most people tend to suggest? There are a lot of radical views. I actually like yours since you take a middle ground. Wich is my own personal philosophy. Ive seen oh.... off the top of my head the last one I saw basically suggested all weapons firing in 10 second intervals and only doing the exact BT value over those 10 seconds... I want you for a moment to imagine the ac2 firing every ten seconds..... *winces* I think I would be able to take a quick beer run to the fridge in between shots.

If you read that more closely, he did not say it would fire every ten seconds. he used the ten seconds to normalize the DPS of each class of AC. I dont care for the method myself, I think it would create a scenario where the only difference between AC is sound and slug velocity/range.

I dont mind the idea of multilpe types of same class AC either, but I am at a loss currently how one would make them equally appealing. FLD in pinpoint location is so preferable IMO the burst fire versions would need to have a significant bonus to their use, like 50% heat generation or somthing. This is why I advocate my "tube" method, because it limits things like AC40 jagers without really removing the possibility of a solid round AC20- it would just be limited by chassis ability, which in turn creates a whole new level of variety in the game/mechlab.