36 replies to this topic

[Konner Duko]

all I have to say is I love the ecm magic bubble some think it is and let me just rain down the lrm's while tagging them. then usually get called some sort of name in general chat followed by them rage quitting.

is it wrong I find some joy in tis????

[Pyrrho]

I love being in the ECM sweet spot range 180m < Me < 270m for targeting. Atlas-DDCs being rained upon by LRMs because no one saw the little Locust behind the lines is frightfully fun.

[Charles Fornton]

I would also be wary of this. UAV does appear on the map. I once launched it on Terra Therma up high on the crater and had a good look at it as it was just next to me. But you wont see it a lot of the time and it would allow someone to lock you.

[Jonathan Paine]

You can also fire missiles at a target under your aim reticle. If they stand still, or you luck out and they run into the point of impact you do damage regardless of ECM. No lock required.

[Tesunie]

You know what, I got to thinking...


Some questions I'd like the OP to answer:
- How do you know you weren't getting hit by TAG? There is no indicator in your HUD that registers you are being TAGed that I know of.
- How do you know that they weren't in the small "donut" of space where they can get locks and shoot?
- How can you tell that no UAV might have been just close enough to pick you up? (That one does appear on your minimap if I'm right, but no other HUD element tells you of this.)
PS: SSRMs don't have a range of 400, but a range of 270m...

[Ironwithin]

Guys ... just ignore this topic. OP is clearly delusional and makes threads like this every couple of days.

Evidence:
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry3160080
http://mwomercs.com/...10#entry3156510

Edited by Ironwithin, 24 February 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[veri745]

Ironwithin, on 24 February 2014 - 11:28 PM, said:

Guys ... just ignore this topic. OP is clearly delusional and makes threads like this every couple of days.

Evidence:
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry3160080
http://mwomercs.com/...10#entry3156510

Thanks. I had a good chuckle reading all of these

[Watchit]

"Donut of Detectability" is now my new favorite phrase.

[Wesxander]

When this was going on it was occurring with mostly champion stalkers. They did not have tag range or there was blocking los. Presuming the champions were free to play means no modules. There was no BAP in play. When BAP is disabling ecm you get a disabled ecm tag to show your being counter jammed.

OH btw the guy talking about posts would have you believe there no cheats or hacks going on in game. I am not the only one that watched the new regen armor hack being used. I talked to some other players who seen it as well. So to your trolling I say go get stuffed. I would guess by your defense of such actions that your accepting cheating as part of regular game play.

Tag used to disable ECM. Currently now ECM mechs do not know when their ecm has been dsabled by TAG. That means if you see missile fire directed at you have no way of knowing if it's direct fire LRMS or active tracking somehow. I adjusted my play to presume that they are tagging or using hack and take cover till I am sure the missles have lost lock.

I am aware of UAVs, BAPS, Sensor modules as well ecm counter mode.

One thing is strange haven't seen this happen this weekend but I did see other cheats going on.

Yes when people cheat I will continue to post. Apparently many of you feel that cheats shouldn't be outted . Back in BT minatures we felt differently. Give benefit of the doubt but if you know something is going on don't turn a blind eye to it.

Just like the chatting asses this weekend. A team would say we need kill member on B team fast he has high damage output. Ok lets do it. Then his friend on the A team warns him through Team Speak so and so has them targeting you first.Cool Man thanks for the heads up. That happened as well. To me cheating is just as bad as if it's for 0 dollar or say 50,000 in cash in an online tournament. CHEATS and people who use hacks are the same as the guy who goes around checking cars in parking lot to see if they are locked if they aren't then he helps himself to whatever he finds inside Then if caught blames it on the person for not locking their car or forgetting to do so. Many of you are defending this sort of play style saying it did not happen. I have friends who show up sometimes on the other team. I usally kill them first right off to bat so I don't have any conflicts in the game later on about target choices. I sure as hell don't warn them what my current team Is doing either. I must have an ethics problem trying to help my team win legally if I can unless there is cheating involved.

Edited by Wesxander, 02 March 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[Tesunie]

Wesxander, on 02 March 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:

When this was going on it was occurring with mostly champion stalkers. They did not have tag range or there was blocking los. Presuming the champions were free to play means no modules. There was no BAP in play. When BAP is disabling ecm you get a disabled ecm tag to show your being counter jammed.

OH btw the guy talking about posts would have you believe there no cheats or hacks going on in game. I am not the only one that watched the new regen armor hack being used. I talked to some other players who seen it as well. So to your trolling I say go get stuffed. I would guess by your defense of such actions that your accepting cheating as part of regular game play.

Tag used to disable ECM. Currently now ECM mechs do not know when their ecm has been dsabled by TAG. That means if you see missile fire directed at you have no way of knowing if it's direct fire LRMS or active tracking somehow. I adjusted my play to presume that they are tagging or using hack and take cover till I am sure the missles have lost lock.

I am aware of UAVs, BAPS, Sensor modules as well ecm counter mode.

One thing is strange haven't seen this happen this weekend but I did see other cheats going on.

Yes when people cheat I will continue to post. Apparently many of you feel that cheats shouldn't be outted . Back in BT minatures we felt differently. Give benefit of the doubt but if you know something is going on don't turn a blind eye to it.

Just like the chatting asses this weekend. A team would say we need kill member on B team fast he has high damage output. Ok lets do it. Then his friend on the A team warns him through Team Speak so and so has them targeting you first.Cool Man thanks for the heads up. That happened as well. To me cheating is just as bad as if it's for 0 dollar or say 50,000 in cash in an online tournament. CHEATS and people who use hacks are the same as the guy who goes around checking cars in parking lot to see if they are locked if they aren't then he helps himself to whatever he finds inside Then if caught blames it on the person for not locking their car or forgetting to do so. Many of you are defending this sort of play style saying it did not happen. I have friends who show up sometimes on the other team. I usally kill them first right off to bat so I don't have any conflicts in the game later on about target choices. I sure as hell don't warn them what my current team Is doing either. I must have an ethics problem trying to help my team win legally if I can unless there is cheating involved.

Champion Stalkers are confirmed as not having BAP, but was it possible someone else had you TAGed froma direction you were not aware of? If BAP is disabling your ECM, you will see the ECM crossed out symbol on your HUD.

TAG has NEVER disabled ECM. It simply punches through ECM to let you get a lock on. However, getting a missile lock is still much slower than if your ECM is disabled. If TAG is pinging your out onto the radar, you will get no notice of this. It has always been that way as far as I can recall (I've been here for over a year). There was one small patch that use to say "Enemy Targeting" or something to inform you that an enemy had a lock on you, but that was only for a week if even that before it was yanked as a bad concept.

Even if your ECM is being pierced by TAG, if you have LRMs homing in on you, your HUG and Betty should each be telling you "INCOMING MISSILES" warning. This warning will sometimes not show up if you are critically damaged, or if your base is being captured. I can not recall if this bug is still in the game, of if it has been fixed and the "INCOMING MISSILE" warning overrides other warnings...

You may be aware of those items, but you seem to (as far as I can understand what you are saying, so don't get upset) not understand how each of those systems effect ECM and LRM targeting abilities. Each one on their own can give you a false sense of your ECM abilities being hacked or a sense of cheating, if one does not know what they do fully. Example: TAG does not disable nor turn off your ECM. TAG merely punches through your ECM when it is hitting you, for as long as it is hitting you (with some delay when it drifts off of you). You appear to be under the concept that TAG will disable your ECM making you aware you are being TAGed. No one else gets to know when they are being TAGed, why should you? It is not the way ECM works.

I'd also like to make mention that ECM is not a missile shield/umbrella any longer. There are more and more ways to counter ECM now than there was before. It is also not as strong as it use to be (but still very strong), as it will only manage to block "X" number of closest mechs sensors now. If the whole team can see you, then someone will probably be able to lock onto you, though it will not be a steady lock. (I am not certain of this, but as far as I understood their last ECM change...) Also, look forward to NARC also "punching" through your ECM without any notice, as it will be seeing some changes as well in the next couple of patches.



On the subject of cheating, yes. People do cheat. I've experienced a few eyebrow raising situations, especially in this competition going on. I've been head snipped from beyond 1000m away, not once (as it didn't kill me with one hit), but twice. No other damage sustained to my mech besides cockpit. I was suspicious, so I observed and checked to see if it happened to my other teammates. I did not see it again and accounted it to a super lucky shot. Maybe my cockpit was just in the wrong place at the wrong time... However, instead of whining on the forums every time I see a possible cheat, I just report them to Support instead. If something fishy is going on, they will find it and deal with it.

I also want to mention that, we also do know that there are cheats. I know there are aim bots for this game out there. I've had my brother ask if anyone else suspected such a thing, as he was head shot like me in a game. The thread was closed/deleted because someone posted a link to a site that sold an aim bot for MW:O. So it is out there. However, I personally don't see it all that much (almost not at all), and don't believe it is as rampant in the game as you and other people make it sound. (I also know there is a wall hack out there, and I'm not talking about Seismic Sensor.) If/When I do see it, I simply screen shot (or you can record) the incident as best I can, report and sent in my evidence, and move on. If something is going on (like someone head shooting every opponent, or most opponents, at inhuman ranges), I'm sure PGI's support staff can observe/bring up databases and figure it out easily enough. Then deal appropriate punishment.



Basically, you don't need to complain about it on the forums. We know it sometimes happens. Cheating can happen, and does happen, in this game. However, in this particular case, I'd have to say it sounds most heavily to be that you probably don't understand all the nuances of ECM and the many ways to counter it (and the many ways to counter ECM without actually disabling it). If you feel that it must be cheating, then report it to support. There, if it is a problem, they can keep an eye out for the cheat, deal punishment to the cheaters, and try to add into the game ways to stop the cheat from happening again. We on the forums can do nothing about this, so complaining to us (besides to see if we experience it too) isn't going to accomplish anything productive.


PS: TAG has a range of 750m. Encase you didn't realize that.

Edited by Tesunie, 02 March 2014 - 05:29 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Wesxander, on 23 February 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

Currently I have ecm on my unit. Without it being disabled people are getting locks and using their missiles. They are not using tag, UAVs, or bap. Narc isn't being used as well. So in theory they shouldn't be able to lock right? WRONG there are players using some kind lrm and srm hack to fire weapons when they don't have locks. They are not dumb firing them either. Talking about lights chasing me that haven' disabled my ecm and the enemy LRM carrier is firing with lock. Then with S4m's the same thing get way out side their bap range only to get hit range 400 by streaks. Yes I understand what decay lock is. This is not what is going on. Seeing it mostly at late night.

Too many pilots have gotten very sloppy with how broken ECM has been. Time to start learning what us non ECM addicted pilots know... take cover, don't stand too still when missiles are fired, and beware of spotters.

You're really gonna hate it when NARC knocks out ECM for 30 seconds and can't be knocked off.

[Wesxander]

As I have said I know what tag is and there was no mech available that could tag me but missiles were still homing. There was light but he had neither bap nor tag. His range might been like 400 ish. Only thing saved me was the building and bridge I was hiding under. I was like that's interesting trick firing over buildings holding a lock on mech with ECM and nothing in LOS That can counter it.

[Wesxander]

As far as tag issue I would rather it turns off the ecm unit till you break los some how to the tag unit. Same effect you would get from being counter jammed, or bap going. At one point BAP wouldn't even show disabling ECM. Everyone had to guess how magical locks were happening. At first they said BAP won't over ride ECM. I didn't feel that was right. Then it changed to yes it overrides, but something over powering your ecm unit you have no way of detecting it. The current version of BAP is good get close enough their ecm snaps off till the bap unit dies or the range is opened etc. That is what tag should be doing as well. REASON FOR TAG DISABLING ECM ICON TO PREVENT CHEATING. I am sure an ecm monitor is capable of detecting an invisible infra red laser being targeted on you. When you paint a mech that works to hide it's electronic signature it's ECM monitoring hardware is going scream bloody murder that there is homing laser locked on that mech. If you want modern example compare passive sonar to active sonar in underwater sub engagements. Passive sonar everyone is quiet. Active sonar the ping might locate the target and let you fire but the pinging unit has given away its location. Additonally the target is going instantly know your range and to evade if your close enough to launch an attack.

[Tesunie]

Wesxander, on 02 March 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

As I have said I know what tag is and there was no mech available that could tag me but missiles were still homing. There was light but he had neither bap nor tag. His range might been like 400 ish. Only thing saved me was the building and bridge I was hiding under. I was like that's interesting trick firing over buildings holding a lock on mech with ECM and nothing in LOS That can counter it.

If they had TAGed for a moment before to get lock, got the lock, and then fired and lost line of sight, the lock will last few a few moments longer till the effects of TAG wear off. They could of also have an ECM Spider behind/near you spotting for them that you did not notice yourself. If the person also had target decay on, that will also extend the lock. Also, the missiles could have had a partial lock. What I mean here is, they could have started off with a lock, lost the lock, and the missiles continued to head into the last spot that they were tracking their target. If you didn't move from when this last happened, then they will still hit you. If you moved, they will hit the ground nearby.

There are many ways to go around ECM right now. However, if you serously felt that they were somehow cheating, submit a ticket to support ( support@mwomercs.com ) with any evidence (if you record your matches, it might be a good thing help to prove your point yourself) and explain what you feel was wrong and who you thought was cheating. Once reported, there is nothing farther you can personally do. As I said before, posting it on the forums (besides to see if other people have noticed this or not as well) really doesn't help anyone out. We can't help you. This is not the place to report these kinds of problems.

PS: If you were fighting against me, and I see you standing still, I will blind fire my LRMs at you. It works charms on ECM overconfident pilots, and really shakes them up that LRMs are hitting them without "any warning".)

Edited by Tesunie, 02 March 2014 - 10:21 PM.

[Tesunie]

Wesxander, on 02 March 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

As far as tag issue I would rather it turns off the ecm unit till you break los some how to the tag unit. Same effect you would get from being counter jammed, or bap going. At one point BAP wouldn't even show disabling ECM. Everyone had to guess how magical locks were happening. At first they said BAP won't over ride ECM. I didn't feel that was right. Then it changed to yes it overrides, but something over powering your ecm unit you have no way of detecting it. The current version of BAP is good get close enough their ecm snaps off till the bap unit dies or the range is opened etc. That is what tag should be doing as well. REASON FOR TAG DISABLING ECM ICON TO PREVENT CHEATING. I am sure an ecm monitor is capable of detecting an invisible infra red laser being targeted on you. When you paint a mech that works to hide it's electronic signature it's ECM monitoring hardware is going scream bloody murder that there is homing laser locked on that mech. If you want modern example compare passive sonar to active sonar in underwater sub engagements. Passive sonar everyone is quiet. Active sonar the ping might locate the target and let you fire but the pinging unit has given away its location. Additonally the target is going instantly know your range and to evade if your close enough to launch an attack.

TAG does not disable ECM. TAG punches through ECM. Otherwise, I would be TAGing opponents under ECM, but don't have ECM themselves, and would not be able to get a lock, as I'm not disabling their ECM mech's ECM unit.

BAP, as soon as it started to counter ECM, gave the same crossed out ECM symbol as when ECM was countering ECM. That has been for as long as I've known BAP to be able to counter ECM. If it didn't show, then you must have been experiencing a bug, not a cheat. (They have not changed BAP besides to make it counter ECM. I have seen no other mention of any changes in any of the patch notes since this initial change.)

TAG does NOT disable ECM. Therefor, it is NOT cheating. It is a PART OF THE GAME. If you knew every time that TAG brushed you, it'd be as bad as when the computer told you that an enemy was getting a lock onto you.

You seem confused again. ECM sends out disrupting sensor information. It doesn't "detect" anything. However, it does tell you when it is being "turned off". The difference with TAG compared to other systems that actually disable ECM is that TAG doesn't disable it. It just reflects information back to the unit TAGing you, which your systems are not blocking. ECM isn't telling you it is being jammed, as it isn't being jammed. It is working as normal, but TAG is reflecting light pulses back to the unit so they can tell better where your mech is.

ECM is not a sensor suit. It doesn't inform you that your "stealth" is busted. It will tell you if it is on, or off. When something fouls it up and turns it off, it informs you of this. Once more, TAG does not actually turn your ECM off. It doesn't counter it. It doesn't foul anything up. Look at it as, you are trying to be stealthy, but a small laser light that helps guide missiles into a location is reflecting off your mechs hull. Your ECM doesn't detect light. It isn't being turned off. As far as it's concerned, everything is working fine... (Don't forget, you do still get the big, red, loud warning of INCOMING MISSILES!)

Do the same sub comparison, but instead, your Sub has a little laser pointer on it that it's own sensors are designed to detected the refracting light off another sub's hull. It pings that light with direct line of sight around till it "sees" it hit. Now, it knows where you are, and your sonar still don't know a thing, as your sonar doesn't pick up light waves...



ECM is not suppose to be all powerful like it once was. Either report these supposive "hacks" and "cheats" to PGI support, or deal with the fact that ECM doesn't work as you envision it and adjust yourself accordingly. Take it as an aid to help you, but stop depending upon it to be a cloaking device. I'm sorry, but the more you talk here, the more I'm grasping that you don't understand the finite parts of the gear you are talking to. I'm also gathering that you don't understand battletech technology and lore (and game play) either.

So, for a final note: If you really suspect cheating is happening, report it to support. We can do nothing for you. This is not relevant to the patch notes. Report it to support and leave it be. There is still nothing we can do about this, and it has nothing to do with the current patch. Report it to support. They can actually do something about it if it is actually happening. We, still, can not help you. (I still, also, highly doubt that this mentioned situation is a cheat at all, but rather I still feel it is a misunderstanding of how gear operates in the game and confusion about ECM and TAG (among other things).)

[Ironwithin]

Tesunie, on 02 March 2014 - 10:21 PM, said:

...stuff...

You're talking against a wall, at most he's gonna call you a troll or put words in your mouth.

[GoManGo]

Hey I have a great idea for this guy and its going to be a feature next month=MECH SHIELD.Plus we get SWORDS ANDSHIELDS SOON.