12 replies to this topic

[sC4r]

Well for a while now i get the feeling that prolonged scouting has no place in the game as in doing so has no real impact on the game. Pretty much all you need at the moment is their approximate location and direction where they are heading.
You see at the moment if the mech is only good at scouting and cant fight well by itself that sort of mech is worthless.

So the idea is that each mech will be detectable from different distance acording to its tonnage. It should work along these lines:
100-90 ton mechs will be spotted from 800 meters.
85-80 tons from 750m
75-70 tons from 700m
65-60 tons from 650m
55-50 tons from 550m
45-40 tons from 500m
35-30 tons from 450m
25-20 tons from 400m

So yea the lighter mech you have the closer you need to be to be able to target it... dont worry you can still shoot it regardless of this.
This distance however will be affected by BAP, sensor modules, TAG and ECM.

BAP- all functions remain but you can detect all mechs within 150 meters of you. You cant detect mechs shielded by ecm or if you are countering ecm using bap.

ECM - all functions remain the same but it will it will reduce detection range by 50%. So your atlas IFF will be spotted at range 400m or lets say hunchback at 275m still good for long range cover.

TAG - all functions ramain and it will bypass all detection ranges up to 750m so you will be able to target any tagged target beyond their normal ranges.

AMS - any mech not equiped with ams wont get incoming missile warning if missiles are fired indirectly.

I think this is neccassary because at the moment if scouts attemts to do any prolonged scouting it gets instantly shutdown if just one mech turns around and the IFF pops up. With this you gotta find look for him yourself and if you actually see him you can still shoot him down.

[Khobai]

IMO mechs should be completely 100% invisible until detected. Your sensor range should also be your spotting distance. That would make scouting and detecting enemies on sensors much more important... because you wouldnt be able to see them at all otherwise.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Yes, scouting is under-utilized. It is essential to know where the enemy is and where they are heading early in the game though, so early scouting can sometimes turn a whole game in your team's favor.

The detection by range idea will not work. Lights are already hard enough to counter, and giving them a 400 meter detection range would be like putting a weak ECM on every light mech. It would tip them well into the over-powered zone when some already claim they are too good.

[sC4r]

Khobai, on 22 February 2014 - 10:09 AM, said:

IMO mechs should be completely 100% invisible until detected. Your sensor range should also be your spotting distance. That would make scouting and detecting enemies on sensors much more important... because you wouldnt be able to see them at all otherwise.

sounds just like what is in wot... and it isnt system i like much
if it was here now or under system i suggested hell it would switch the game to brawling only and lights would be way OP
also most of the matches you wouldnt even see your enemies

[Foxfire]

In general they made it entirely too easy to find mechs with the magic triangle.

Combine that with the relative small size of most maps and there is really little reason to play the scout role after the first phase of the game.

[Varent]

sC4r, on 22 February 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

Well for a while now i get the feeling that prolonged scouting has no place in the game as in doing so has no real impact on the game. Pretty much all you need at the moment is their approximate location and direction where they are heading.
You see at the moment if the mech is only good at scouting and cant fight well by itself that sort of mech is worthless.

So the idea is that each mech will be detectable from different distance acording to its tonnage. It should work along these lines:
100-90 ton mechs will be spotted from 800 meters.
85-80 tons from 750m
75-70 tons from 700m
65-60 tons from 650m
55-50 tons from 550m
45-40 tons from 500m
35-30 tons from 450m
25-20 tons from 400m

So yea the lighter mech you have the closer you need to be to be able to target it... dont worry you can still shoot it regardless of this.
This distance however will be affected by BAP, sensor modules, TAG and ECM.

BAP- all functions remain but you can detect all mechs within 150 meters of you. You cant detect mechs shielded by ecm or if you are countering ecm using bap.

ECM - all functions remain the same but it will it will reduce detection range by 50%. So your atlas IFF will be spotted at range 400m or lets say hunchback at 275m still good for long range cover.

TAG - all functions ramain and it will bypass all detection ranges up to 750m so you will be able to target any tagged target beyond their normal ranges.

AMS - any mech not equiped with ams wont get incoming missile warning if missiles are fired indirectly.

I think this is neccassary because at the moment if scouts attemts to do any prolonged scouting it gets instantly shutdown if just one mech turns around and the IFF pops up. With this you gotta find look for him yourself and if you actually see him you can still shoot him down.

kinda like this though I think beagle should just counter 2 ecm, not all ecm.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Can't begin to fix this stuff without a complete work of the Electronic Warfare we have now.

And even if you did that, the game is so static, with almost no dynamic qualities at all, that you can basically guess where the enemy is going to be every game.

On top of that, with the Meta being the way it is, there is also no reason to try and figure out what loadouts people are using.

The whole thing is messed up from the bottom up, and isn't worth discussing until PGI admits there is a problem with it. Which odds are they won't do.

[Screech]

Detection range change would be nice since trying to scout in anything without ECM on all maps except Alpine is pointless at best.

[Khobai]

Quote

sounds just like what is in wot... and it isnt system i like much

its how sensors in battletech worked (if you played the optional double blind rules), you couldnt see the enemy mechs at all until they were detected. Its also kindve how sensors worked in mechcommander. You got a sensor contact way before you could actually see the enemy.

Sensor info is given to us way too freely and easily and thats why scouting isnt important like it should be. Sensor info should be difficult and worthwhile to obtain. And sensor warfare should be the role of obtaining information about the enemy while preventing the enemy from getting the same information. If your mech is loaded with direct fire weapons and you have a good pair of eyes you dont even need sensors, which is a bit silly. Sensors are almost entirely pointless in the current game. The only reason to even target an enemy is to lock-on with missiles or see how damaged they are. Sensors should be a lot more important than that.

The only way to make detection important enough for scouting to become an actual role is to make it so enemy mechs are completely invisible until detected. That way if your team doesnt scout, but the enemy team does scout, they can shoot at you, and you cant shoot back at them. Good scouting becomes a vital part of winning.

Edited by Khobai, 22 February 2014 - 03:49 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Khobai, on 22 February 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

its how sensors in battletech worked (if you played the optional double blind rules), you couldnt see the enemy mechs at all until they were detected. Its also kindve how sensors worked in mechcommander. You got a sensor contact way before you could actually see the enemy.

Sensor info is given to us way too freely and easily and thats why scouting isnt important like it should be. Sensor info should be difficult and worthwhile to obtain. And sensor warfare should be the role of obtaining information about the enemy while preventing the enemy from getting the same information. If your mech is loaded with direct fire weapons and you have a good pair of eyes you dont even need sensors, which is a bit silly. Sensors are almost entirely pointless in the current game. The only reason to even target an enemy is to lock-on with missiles or see how damaged they are. Sensors should be a lot more important than that.

The only way to make detection important enough for scouting to become an actual role is to make it so enemy mechs are completely invisible until detected. That way if your team doesnt scout, but the enemy team does scout, they can shoot at you, and you cant shoot back at them. Good scouting becomes a vital part of winning.

Imposing LoS limits based on sensor performance would make a ton of sense if we were using the monitor-style cockpits instead of the canopy-style cockpits. As it is, the good-old MK1 Eyeball sensor remains in play simply because we are looking through a transparent armored canopy.

[sC4r]

Khobai, on 22 February 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

its how sensors in battletech worked (if you played the optional double blind rules), you couldnt see the enemy mechs at all until they were detected. Its also kindve how sensors worked in mechcommander. You got a sensor contact way before you could actually see the enemy.

Sensor info is given to us way too freely and easily and thats why scouting isnt important like it should be. Sensor info should be difficult and worthwhile to obtain. And sensor warfare should be the role of obtaining information about the enemy while preventing the enemy from getting the same information. If your mech is loaded with direct fire weapons and you have a good pair of eyes you dont even need sensors, which is a bit silly. Sensors are almost entirely pointless in the current game. The only reason to even target an enemy is to lock-on with missiles or see how damaged they are. Sensors should be a lot more important than that.

The only way to make detection important enough for scouting to become an actual role is to make it so enemy mechs are completely invisible until detected. That way if your team doesnt scout, but the enemy team does scout, they can shoot at you, and you cant shoot back at them. Good scouting becomes a vital part of winning.

the thing is if this comes around... all sniping and lrm (or whats left of them anyway) can be scrapped pretty much
in tabletop or some strategy game this can be all good not for fps

as i said i have seen this in wot and i really really hate it... sometimes its all good but damn when you cant see the enemy until you litteraly ram it thats some *insert not nice word here* and you know how it would go here with ecm mechanic... even in my proposed system it would still be horrible

i think this is neccesary to:
1.give chance to non ecm light mechs at some ninja shots or scouting ... damn this might make even locust worthwhile

2.give oppening to some indirect fire... like come on since lrm apocalypse ended there was pretty much never much chance to get of a decent shot and im talking about any of those random games talking about more organized games where its more like go snipe or go home

3.force some electronics onto loadouts that dont have any... and not equiping such at all to actually give some risk... even if all it is is some half ton

[Krasnovian]

Electronic warfare needs to be a robust part of this game if we want good dynamic gameplay but there should not be a requirement for mechs to carry EW equipment in order to participate

I came up with a quick outline of how such a system could work in a realistic manner
http://mwomercs.com/...100-rework-ecm/

[Monkey Lover]

I would like to be able to hind in the forest. As of now you can be hiding in or behind them and you get a nice little red box on your targeted mech.