14 replies to this topic

[foyrkopp]

Greetings, MechWarriors

sorry if this is a long post, please bear with me.

First of all: Even being a new player, despite the problems I'm wrestling with, this game is fun.

Now, my situation:

Having played 50-ish games by now I'm reasonably capable of not bumping into terrain every other step anymore, playing without Arm-Lock and keeping dem lasers somewhat on target.

I also used my Cadet Bonus to buy and upgrade a HBK-4SP, since it was generally recommended to newcomers. However, due to the drawn-out long-range-slugging a PUG seems to inevitably begin with, by the time the actual brawls start,

• more often than not the match seems all but decided.
  
• I, being newbish and all, am already spectating.

Therefore, I tweaked my Hunchie from the generic brawler to more of an all range fire support build (2 LL / 2 ML / AMS), which finally started to get results - by which I mean some assists and 100+ DMG per match, maybe even a kill.

My problem:

However, this only really works out if I can stay on the second row, preferably behind some meat-shieldy Heavies / Assaults, and, well, support them. It does not work if said front line is perching on some ridge, ER-slugging it out with PPCs, Gauss' & LRMs - which more often than not, seems to be the case.

In that situation my "second row support seat" usually is out of LOS, let alone range. If I scramble up to them, I either have to fire through their backs, have them fire through my back or find my own exposed spot to get focused down on.
If I go roaming / flanking instead, I find out that, with my current 'Mech setup (and skill level), I seemingly can't duel anyone. Lights are nearly impossible to keep those lasers on, Heavies+ just take a dump on me.

I need your advice:

Right now, I see multiple options:

• Sacrifice some range on my HBK for some dueling power, get a better shot & pilot and try and go Light hunting.
  
• Save up for a good Heavy that can survive some attention - either on the front line or in a duel.
  
• Save up for a good Light, train a lot (I know these guys require skill) and go scouting.
  
• Something that I didn't think of - but you guys did.

(BTW - I also got the free Zombie Cent this weekend, didn't fare that well with his extremely short-range-kit ...)

Edited by foyrkopp, 24 February 2014 - 03:03 AM.

[Bushrat]

Foyrkopp,

I think that you are on the right track. However, you should think of your Hunchback as a skirmisher not as a front line mech unless you are facing other mediums. I use my mediums that way and look for opportunities to do strafing runs and hide and seek sniping. Also guarding missile boats is a good role to play. If you want to be on the front line consider getting a heavy or assault. Speed is your friend with a medium, the Hunchback is not one of my favorites... but many use it great effect. It may be too early to tell what play style you like best. You might be better suited with an assault or heavy, or maybe try a light mech. You should also drop with others on a TS channel if you are able. There are many public servers that a new player can gain access to and many groups out there that would help you great deal by dropping with you. Joining an organized group helped me a lot when I was new. best of luck.. if you see me on the battlefield friend me and I will drop with you and see how we can help.

Cheers,

Bushrat

Edited by Bushrat, 24 February 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

What you generally want to do in a medium mech is find yourself an assault teammate and support him, i.e. come out of cover when he does and shoot what he shoots. When say an Atlas and a Hunchie pop out of cover people will most likely shoot the Atlas, because it is a.) easier to hit b.) usually a greater threat. Thus you can safely do your thing. If lights come to harass you, being together with a teammate helps immensly because lights will most likely focus on one mech, while the other one can take well aimed shots at them while not being forced into vertigo circle.

Use your loadout wisely. If your weapons do full damage only inside 270m do not try to poke out of cover and trade fire with medium lasers against PPCs/ACs/Gauss. Wait safely behind cover and watch flanks/rear for fast mechs. Your long range teammates will soften the enemy and you'll be able to shine when your team makes a push or their team pushes you. Because ... surprise! fresh brawler mech in your face PPC-sniper. And visa versa, use your long range build at long range, when push comes, let brawlers get in front. Any build is valid build as long as you know how to use it to your advantage.

IMHO you should stick to medium mechs for now. If you'll learn to use a medium mech effectively you'll be able to drive anything later on.

Just remember simple things. No matter how good you are if 2 mechs are against your 1 you'll most likely lose, strength in numbers. No matter what you do, don't stand still, still target is easy hit thus focus priority. Don't run in straight lines, especially directly towards/from the enemy, make aiming for them as difficult as possible. Always think of escape routes/cover, if you don't see an enemy somewhere it doesn't mean they won't be there 10 seconds after just to catch you in the open with a rain of LRMs. Stick with your teammates and help them as much as you can, don't be shy to use in-game chat, there are some douchebags out there but most people will still help you out if they can. Better yet, install a free VoIP program and jump into MW:O dedicated server to group up with others, teamwork is OP.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 24 February 2014 - 03:47 AM.

[Modo44]

Lower your mouse sensitivity, and disable mouse smoothing/acceleration. This simple step will make your lasers amazingly easy to aim. Combined with the Hunchie's wide torso+arm reach, you should be able to hit literally anything within weapon range.

Master the mech. Use FF and ES to put a big engine in it to push it even further (the bigger the engine, the faster the torso twist). This will increase your speed and mobility, which will make it easier to close in using terrain cover.

Learn to torso twist like a madman. Never look in one direction for longer than the duration of a laser shot. The lack of a hunch lets the 4SP survive short dashes into the open even vs strong opponents.

As for tactics, try to run around corners instead over ridges. This removes a big part of the jumping mechs' advantage. Unfortunately, it will not come quickly, as it depends a lot on map knowledge. There are good routes to almost anywhere.

Edited by Modo44, 24 February 2014 - 04:05 AM.

[Turist0AT]

KTO-18 is answer to your problems.

[Ertur]

HBK-4SP
This is what I used, but it is pretty hot. Like you describe, though, it's not a front line mech. Most mediums aren't.

With the laser hunchback I went with 3ML in the arms and head (two different groups) and 6SL in the hunch. Standard engine, 270 if I remember correctly. That or max engine.

If you get a G or GI, use ac20 with 3ML, stf250 or so.

These are mechs like you describe above: find a group of assaults and heavies and watch their backs and flanks. Medium mechs don't do well off on their own, you need to be with a pack. Try to shoot at the same target as others in the pack.

If you start to build up some GXP, look at getting Target Info skill, and then buy the module. It helps ID more quickly what mechs have damage, and where.

Edited by Ertur, 24 February 2014 - 06:28 AM.

[Bhelogan]

Yea, I think a lot of it is knowing your role. You will eventually want to get lights and heavies and such, and have mechs for different roles. You will find that as the meta shifts, new mechs come out, or even the time of day you play, different play styles will be more successful than others. For a medium like yours, you are really providing the role of fire support for brawlers. You need to stay with a lance that is going to move in, then fire on the targets they are focusing on when you will not be marked as the prime threat for return fire.

You will find times when both sides want to duke it out sniper style. In these cases, there really isn't much you can do but wait it out, or chat with your team to see if you can get at least 2 other mechs to try a flank. In these cases though, with your build, if your team gets out snipped, there isn't much you can do. That is just the way the game goes sometimes.

You could try a build with some LRMs, and MLs. That would give you a little more flexibility to hit targets you do not have LOS on, though keep in mind it will make you somewhat useful in both situations, but not excel in either.

Another think you can do is get on TS with other players who are willing to play mechs to complement what you have available to run.

Edited by Bhelogan, 24 February 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[Macksheen]

I ran this as a new player about 4-6 weeks ago. My loadout was a STD engine (260 maybe?) and 9 ML, remainder in heat sinks.

Essentially
- Be opportunistic
- Don't be greedy
- Focus on the big picture

BE OPPORTUNISTIC: You aren't a front-line dude who can take a bunch of hits. You're sturdy, but not someone who wants too much attention too fast. Snipe when you can, but hang near your group. Try to sense which way the battle is shifting, and look for opportunities to swing to the weak side and come on from the side or back and put all your lasers into someone's back. Get to love your R key and select targets, looking for those near by with weak spots. As long as they are up, they are shooting - so find the ones that can be taken out the fastest and concentrate on them. Maybe you can't hit the specific areas on their body now, but you can at least see who's weak.

DON'T BE GREEDY: "One more volley and I can kill him ... dangit, overheated again!" Don't be that guy ... do your damage, and then move on. Be opportunistic about kills, but not foolish ... sometimes it is better to hit and fade. Don't chase a wounded target into the unknown ... that's likely an enemy kill zone

FOCUS: If your team has an announced plan, stick to the core like gospel - more teams fail that half-way commit to a plan and get all disorganized than those without one at all. Still, try to find your "spot" in the mob - and for a hunchie it isnt' front and center. You're best if you're with someone else, so no running off to cap alone or scouting - leave that to those better suited. Buddy up. Don't be distracted by a light fly-by strafe - he may just be strafing. Unless he's actually engaged you, don't try to duel - let him go. You can't catch him, and you can't hit him easily until your aiming skills improve ... focus on the bigger picture, better play. Watch your heat; a shut down mech is zero DPS.

[wanderer]

50 tons is enough to put an LRM launcher or two on and go to town, backing it up with ML's.

Why? LRMs let you flick some damage over cover, ML's give you decent firepower for direct support. If you go Artemis, one 15 or 20 will actually do nicely- put a TAG laser on the head, add mediums to taste, go to town. SP's are pretty darn flexible in that regard

LRM 15+ Artemis,4 tons of ammo, 4 MLs, TAG, 14DHS, and max armor. I did something very similar in my Wolverine-K and it works surprisingly well, since what you can't missile, you can usually put the quad lasers into. TAG lets you direct fire with very, very good grouping and can peel ECM temporarily to reveal an annoying cloaked scout that's pestering people. The nice thing about LRMs is that when you don't have to, you don't need to expose your relatively thin armor to fire, and LRMs mean that not only can you directly support whoever, but you can feed damage/suppressive fire into anything everyone else sees as well- or in many cases fire over whatever you're helping out and still put damage in. If it's safe, you can poke around that heavy/assault and dump lasers in for good measure, and 4xML will sting.

[marepinta]

You did not mention what game you are playing. I have enjoyed conquest as a beginner specifically because it gives me a concrete goal. I stick with my lance-mates, unless they head toward the center of the map. As a general rule I travel the outside of the map in a clock-wise rotation capping bases along the way. If I am at one base, I head toward the next base to the right.

This teaches the maps, helps me with a direction, and capping is mandatory for the win even if it doesn't necessarily give points. I did this in the beginning for a long time without a capture accelerator, which is really slow going.

Much of the time if you begin with this in mind as a goal, your lance mates will follow and provide support, experienced players understand this plan. You shoot whoever you run into and take the points as you get them. Quite often I find myself last man standing, which is always wildly amusing to me

Sometimes I get dead players trash-talking, but it is not any better support for me to run into the fray and die 5 seconds later. I am learning and becoming a much better player in this fashion. Getting familiar with my mech and able to snipe and go forward/backward over ridges getting shots to assist. I do get a kill occasionally but mostly I get assists, which pay handsomely.

forgot to say ... running a Jagermech with 2 LRM (which is what I snipe with) and an AC-20 for up-close.

Edited by marepinta, 24 February 2014 - 08:00 AM.

[Kurkotain]

I think i faced you on a match yesterday on canyon network, wouldn't forget that build soon.

The problem with a hunchback is that you need to pilot it in a very specific way to get results.

As said before, a hunchback is a skirmisher. Given the current meta, the hunchback doesn't have the armor to stand up to front line fighting against meta builds (high alpha pinpoint)

It doesn't have the tonnage to be an effective meta-er, meaning twin ppcs and med lasers as a fire support platform. its an interesting concept but you overheat way too fast, and that's with all efficiencies and with a fully kitted out chassis.

In another point, the HBK chassis really needs the double efficiencies to shine, especially the 4SP, in its given roles: light brawler, skirmisher and the role i find it excels - hit and run.
That means that it is normal that you feel out-piloted until you have double efficiencies and your piloting skills have gone up, since it is hard to succeed in a hunchback.

You may think that with all the cons i have given you about the chassis you made the wrong choice regarding your starter chassis, but you are completely wrong. You couldn't have chosen a better chassis to learn the game and the mechanics of it.

Torso twisting, arm aiming, different weapon systems, combat tactics and how to stand up to situations in which you are seriously outmatched, and even when to stay and fight, and when to use your superior speed and run to fight on more favorable conditions, the HBK 4SP can and will teach you all of those skills given enough time and experience.

I'll share some standard builds and their roles and piloting mindsets so that you can try them out and find which ones you like.\

The 4SP is a special beast in which that given its hardpoint limitations and usual roles, it benefits from as much speed as possible. that means that it loves the biggest engine you can squeeze inside, and as you should've experimented a bit with the hunchbacks, you must have figured out that XL engines are a big no-no in that chassis, almost as bad as XLs in a Stalker.

That means that the standard 275 is your go-to engine in that chassis. once you hit speed tweak you'll be doing almost a 100 kph which is insanely fast, all things considered.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...025a1a6f92e2810

That is the standard build on the 4sp (with a little tweaks to my preference, extra DHS and ammo)
it can handle a little bit of everything but it is fragile on certain roles so you need to pilot it on a very specific role in order to excel on it:

Either a fast hit and runner: you fan out of the firing line on the team and look for weak spots or distracted mechs, hit them with everything you have once, and pull out of there as fast as you can back to your team before you receive return fire.

or a fast flanker: similar as above, you take a side route and try to hit the enemy flank. you commit more to the fight and duke it out with a target of opportunity, meaning a distracted enemy mech or a loner, damage him as much as you can and if the rest of the enemy team moves in to get you, pull out and get them to chase you.
If your team is smart, you just provided them with the best opportunity to break the front line: you distracted a good portion of the enemy team and their firing line should be worse than yours. tell you team to move in for the kill and even if the enemy downs your mech, the exchange is in your favor = 1 medium for the entire enemy firing line.

[DONTOR]

PhoenixFire55, on 24 February 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

What you generally want to do in a medium mech is find yourself an assault teammate and support him, i.e. come out of cover when he does and shoot what he shoots. When say an Atlas and a Hunchie pop out of cover people will most likely shoot the Atlas, because it is a.) easier to hit b.) usually a greater threat. Thus you can safely do your thing. If lights come to harass you, being together with a teammate helps immensly because lights will most likely focus on one mech, while the other one can take well aimed shots at them while not being forced into vertigo circle.

Use your loadout wisely. If your weapons do full damage only inside 270m do not try to poke out of cover and trade fire with medium lasers against PPCs/ACs/Gauss. Wait safely behind cover and watch flanks/rear for fast mechs. Your long range teammates will soften the enemy and you'll be able to shine when your team makes a push or their team pushes you. Because ... surprise! fresh brawler mech in your face PPC-sniper. And visa versa, use your long range build at long range, when push comes, let brawlers get in front. Any build is valid build as long as you know how to use it to your advantage.

IMHO you should stick to medium mechs for now. If you'll learn to use a medium mech effectively you'll be able to drive anything later on.

Just remember simple things. No matter how good you are if 2 mechs are against your 1 you'll most likely lose, strength in numbers. No matter what you do, don't stand still, still target is easy hit thus focus priority. Don't run in straight lines, especially directly towards/from the enemy, make aiming for them as difficult as possible. Always think of escape routes/cover, if you don't see an enemy somewhere it doesn't mean they won't be there 10 seconds after just to catch you in the open with a rain of LRMs. Stick with your teammates and help them as much as you can, don't be shy to use in-game chat, there are some douchebags out there but most people will still help you out if they can. Better yet, install a free VoIP program and jump into MW:O dedicated server to group up with others, teamwork is OP.

This is all gold do this! Couldnt have said it better myself.
And to the OP good on you for coming to the forums and asking for advice not enough new players do that, this game is very difficult to learn and every bit of knowledge helps.

[Koniving]

foyrkopp, on 24 February 2014 - 03:01 AM, said:

Greetings, MechWarriors

The builds you present, if your builds are indeed armored the same way in game, I can tell you right now why you're dying so easily. 0 armor on the back shows up on sensors. They know they can kill you from behind.

Consider this as a basic tweak. This way when you do get into a fight you can take damage to the backside too.

I'd offer my builds, but they require XL engines for the 4SP.

For what Phoenix said, note for the 2 enemies versus you scenario he said "most likely lose." This doesn't mean you will always lose so don't give up.
Here's a good example using the trial Cicada.
Unedited. The plain match.
Computer tells you what's going on. The same match with twin computers narrating.
Both vids are fast-forwarded to when the two versus me fight begins.

Edited by Koniving, 24 February 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

foyrkopp, on 24 February 2014 - 03:01 AM, said:

Therefore, I tweaked my Hunchie from the generic brawler to more of an all range fire support build (2 LL / 2 ML / AMS)

I took your build and added streaks to help with lights http://mwo.smurfy-ne...29ee8c5853c18be

It removes 1 ton of AMS ammo, some armor from the arms, and some heat sinks. Just don't fire everything at once and you should be able to manage your heat. Oh, and it will be better to have all the pilot skills unlocked. I used to run this build back before I sold my HBK-4SP. Just seek out other medium mechs or damaged heavies or lights. I also encourage you to try other weapons on your mechs just to experience what you can all do. For example, as a missle boat http://mwo.smurfy-ne...beef49a6a0e1e35 or as a dual PPC mid-range shooter http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dba809839ebd69. I'm not saying these are good or bad builds, but please do experiment and get used to different weapons systems and how to use them in any mech you own.

[foyrkopp]

Thank you for all the detailed feedback and advice.

Forcing myself to be patient, never go alone and - when in doubt - shamelessly retreat, has promptly and noticeably improved my performance.

A little success (and encouragement) can have a remarkabIe impact on perspective, so I will stick to mastering Mediums for now and take the time to test out some of the builds that have been suggested to me.

For now, my main question of "what to do with myself and my medium 'Mech during a match" has been given enough input to keep me going (and improving) for a while. Feel free to post additional hints and tidbits for me (and others), but know that you already helped me a lot.

@Modo44 - your advice on laser accuracy was very helpful and something I never would have thought of on my own.

@Koniving - That's just me being lazy with the representation of my build on smurfy. Thanks for noticing (and it is definitely the kind of thing a newb might do), but in game, I do have armor on my backside.

@Kurkotain - I definitely played that setup on that map yesterday. It is nice to be remembered (just don't tell me wether in a good or.in a bad way). Since the freebie-Cent came with a 275-STD, the HighSpeedHunch will be the first thing I try.

Thanks,
foyrkopp