Well, first you stated you don't like the bigness of the Victor, and in that you will face all Assault mechs. So the only thing saving the Victor is the JJ but you also said you don't you them that much.
At this current time your Assault options (excluding Victor and compare to Victor):
Atlas - even a bigger body and more sluggish
Highlander - even bigger and more sluggish
Stalker - slightly narrower but side makes it bigger and most sluggish of them all
Battlemaster - first or second in biggest body and sluggish
Awesome - same as battlemaster but less armour and more speed
So with what you say you really shouldn't get any Assault mech which is fine. save your C-Bills and wait for something better to come out. Heck Clanner mechs will be 2 to 3 times more costing then inner sphere mechs anyway.
Dire Wolf 29,350,000 C-bills
Atlas 9,626,000 C-bills
Took the advice of the Victor fans and grabbed a second variant last night, the 9S.
Still hating it. I'm finding that my Cataphracts can fit better loadouts, more efficiently and tank better.
The Victors are just SO fragile, and such magnets for enemy fire. lol
I did start jumping much more, but really... when you're in close enough to be using the AC20 and SRMs... VTRs jump/move so slowly that only the absolute worst pilots could have their aim thrown off.
Definitely need to save my pennies for the max XL engine. Probably drop the useless AC20 as well.
No mech comes into it's own till it is at least basic-ed out. Mine too operated like a fat sow for the whole time till I got my maneouvering skills bumped up. Even then after Elite status was hit, then the fun with them began.
As for the speed of JJ's, you need more than 1. Put 2-3 in them and then you can even dodge artillery by JJs. I know I have. I've also been able to JJ over heavies, get behind them on the spin and kablam! Dead enemy.
Don't forget, VTR meta builds are that for a good reason. Try em and see what happens.
Yeah, i'm learning - fast - that being the big bad guy simply means you need to play like a big bad guy BETTER than the opponents' big bad guys.
My issue is definitely that i try to wade into the fray to save teammates that are beyond saving. By the time i get into position to help the mediums that get themselves in trouble, they've been focused down and it's my turn to feel the hurt.
I may just have to adopt my heavies' strategy and do a bit more sniping from the flanks and truly wait for a real mass-charge before i try pushing my assault chassis skills. I simply am not good enough yet to hold the center of the line vs 4+ enemies.
I own the VTR-DS... but am not in love with it at all, don't play it much and rarely crack 300 damage (imo, terrible for an assault). Especially considering my HBKs that are half the size and firepower are now averaging 450 damage per PUG.
Any feedback is appreciated.
Yeah, i'm learning - fast - that being the big bad guy simply means you need to play like a big bad guy BETTER than the opponents' big bad guys.
My issue is definitely that i try to wade into the fray to save teammates that are beyond saving. By the time i get into position to help the mediums that get themselves in trouble, they've been focused down and it's my turn to feel the hurt.
I may just have to adopt my heavies' strategy and do a bit more sniping from the flanks and truly wait for a real mass-charge before i try pushing my assault chassis skills. I simply am not good enough yet to hold the center of the line vs 4+ enemies.
Very astute self observation. See, my hardware can't handle brawling so I always have to stand back more and fight. It's why I'm good at being an LRM pilot because for a while, it's all I could do successfully. But now, with added cockpit time, my skills are getting better, but the time hanging back has given me greater situational awareness of the minimap and where the enemy is probably moving by feeling the rhythm of the battle.
Listen to how the mech's design changes your play and increases your effectiveness. I too would dive in more carelessly when I first got my VTRs. Then as I watched my armor melt I realized I was doing it again, and becoming the focus of fire. Of course, I run huge engines and lots of jumpjets, so although I could not totally disengage, I could turn the terrain to my advantage many times and get back into the safe confines of the group. Never squander armor if you don't have to. You will need it soon enough. My goal is still to get through battle untouched while still killing enemies. So far... not so much.
I've mastered my medium HBKs and heavy CTFs. Now I'm pondering what to do in regards to Assaults.
I own the VTR-DS... but am not in love with it at all, don't play it much and rarely crack 300 damage (imo, terrible for an assault). Especially considering my HBKs that are half the size and firepower are now averaging 450 damage per PUG.
I don't like the VTR's low-slung arms, tall height (too much target) and i often forget i have JJs negating much of the VTR's mobility advantage.
I'm wondering if I should give the VTR a better chance and get 2 other variants to elite it and improve it.
Or, cut my losses and toss some CBills at other chassis like the Battlemaster or wait a month or so for some other new Assault chassis to be released (are there any coming?)
I have no idea how the BLR plays, but I'm looking for something with better punch, more rugged/durable and higher hardpoints (which i know the 'master has) than the VTRs.
The stalker, atlas and highlander are not options for me as speed turns out to be my best defense.
Any feedback is appreciated.
I do encourage you to learn to pilot the slower chassis; those 'mechs require a different piloting style, and learning to use that style will round out your piloting skills. Similarly, you really need to learn to use jump jets intuitively. They're a very useful piece of equipment, and being so unused to them that you forget that you have them installed is a big hole in your piloting skillset. Mind you, that doesn't mean you have to always pilot stuff that jumps - most of my current favorites aren't jump-capable - but it's one of the bread-and-butter pieces of equipment (like PPCs and Autocannons) in the game. Even if you don't prefer a playstile yourself, knowing how it works helps you fight it.
However, going with the theme of speed, it kind of depends on what you want to do. The Victor is an excellent 'mech that I actually do not own yet; still, I've seen them used very well, and if you're into an agile playstile, they're more nimble than the Battlemasters. It's the jump jets and torso twist range, as well as the ability to mount an AC/20 on an arm. Once you get the 'mech kitted out, you can run an XL engine and use torso twisting and jump jets to spread damage. You can outrun most stuff that can kill you, and kill what you can't outrun. The arm-mounted AC hardpoints are more vulnerable, but allow you to be much more accurate, especially on the move. The Victor is a very popular 'mech for these reasons.
The Battlemaster, on the other hand, is about as fast, but at a greater cost to its firepower, because of the way engine tonnages ramp up on a curve. The Battlemaster maxxes out at 83.9 with a 400 XL, but the Victor can get up to about that speed with only a 375 rated engine. The difference in tonnage, even for XL engines, leaves the Victor with 3.5 tons more gun weight at the same speed (assuming endo-steel and max armor rounded down to the nearest half ton.) It also turns a little better, and twists better (if I recall; I'm having trouble with Smurfy's, but I know it twists better than the BLR-1G.) The Battlemaster, on the other hand, has small side torsos and big, blocky arms - along with a significant number of torso-mounted energy and/or missile hardpoints. This, along with it's slightly higher tonnage, this means that it can wade into the middle of a sustained brawl a little better than the Victor. So while both can be fast, mobile attackers, the Victor wins out in pure mobility, while the Battlemaster is a better hillcrest sniper and bruiser.
On the subject of XL engines, I've used both XL and standard engines on my Battlemaster with good effect. The Battlemaster is at a pretty balanced point between weight, hardpoint, and heat-limited loadouts.
Spoiler
To illustrate what I mean by that, consider the Jenner D on one side, and the Atlas D-DC on the other. On the Jenner, you have a whole thirty-five tons to play with - a single Large Laser is over 14% of your total tonnage (and you're one of the biggest lights!) However, the Jenner has six weapon hardpoints: so while it can't mount a lot of even medium-weight weapons, it can easily mount enough light weapons to fry itself to a crisp if you're careless, or didn't bring enough heat sinks. The Atlas, on the other hand, can slap on two Large Lasers and still only spend 10% of its total weight. But the Atlas only has one more weapon hardpoint than the Jenner, and many of its hardpoints are on the same locations (the Jenner has this problem with missile hardpoints, but the tonnage limitations are more important.) So while the Jenner has a lot of hardpoints compared to its tonnage, the Atlas doesn't - it has to pick big guns or risk being under-armed. These big guns, of course, can easily overheat the Atlas if it's poorly piloted or badly designed, but you're going generally run out of hardpoints and heat efficiency long before you run out of tons. Thus, the Jenner is heat- and weight-limited, while the Atlas is heat- and hardpoint-limited.
So while its hitboxes and architecture are well-designed to spread damage away from the side torsos, it can still spread damage away from the CT as well. It depends on how you pilot it. The cost of its engine ratings means that you can use Standard Engines or XL Engines depending on whether you want durability or speed (and slightly better utility heat efficiency.)
Edited by Void Angel, 25 February 2014 - 03:28 PM.
Given you have the DS, get the 9B and 9S victors and get the basics and elites over with. For assaults, the Elite skills make a HUGE difference.
If you didn't have the DS, I'd wait a week and see what new mech is coming out next month (Rumored to be an assault, rumored heavier to possibly be the Mauler)
LocationStuck on a piece of Commando in my Ice Ferret
Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:53 PM
Mott, on 25 February 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:
Took the advice of the Victor fans and grabbed a second variant last night, the 9S.
Still hating it. I'm finding that my Cataphracts can fit better loadouts, more efficiently and tank better.
The Victors are just SO fragile, and such magnets for enemy fire. lol
I did start jumping much more, but really... when you're in close enough to be using the AC20 and SRMs... VTRs jump/move so slowly that only the absolute worst pilots could have their aim thrown off.
Definitely need to save my pennies for the max XL engine. Probably drop the useless AC20 as well.
Well having 2 victors just isnt enough unfortunately as it has been said earlier it needs to be fully elited to really shine, then I think you will learn to love it. I really LOVE both chassis but for different reasons. Use the biggest XL if you want but I find the XL360 works really well as it gets you to 80KPH with tweak, and plenty of room for a good weapon loadout. I woldnt recomend getting rid of the AC20 if your going for a bg XL engine as it is one of the more weight effectve weapons that you will be able to fit. Rather than 2 UACs, AC5s, LBX+other, etc. The AC20 is your friend on a fast Victor.
Do not neglect the LRM/SRM goodness that can make your Victor a terrific Zombie fighter. Let's face it 3 SRM6 is a 32dmg broadside that most people just don't expect coming out of a VTR anymore. Now with SRM hit reg cleaned up a bunch... heh heh heh... yeah... get ready for some end game zombie fun in the scrum. More than once have I had people ignore me, to their own fatality because they shot my arms off and didn't notice the missile ports or didn't target me to see my loadout. Oopsidaisy! A set of rapid fire SRMs later, they were running for it if not dead.
Dont be the first into a brawl. The Victor does better on the fringes. You cant save a loner in a Victor, I havent found a build that can poor out bralwing dmg fast enough and still mount the big engine that makes a Victor play like a Victor.
You dont have to hide though, or play mid range sniper. As a fellow phract master, i can tell you something about that particular chassis lets you wade into combat, take a beating but survive to wade back out again. Something about the Victor lets you wade in, and get blown to bits before you can get out. maybe it is the height. The victor can get around a map fast, and is maneuverable in a close fight, but it commits like any other assault once you are in. I thik it is the speed that fools ya at first, as they can move like a heavy with enough engine. If you havent played many assaults, it is deff. a different style. you need to be very aware of the battle, and decide when it is time to commit your smash to the fight, because once you commit, thats pretty well it, you either smash face and win, or get beatdown and lose, with only a very few lucky in betweens where you might escape a bad decision. Pharacts only suffer from this in the 4x mostly, and anything lighter the deadly mistakes are a completely different nature.
I was going to suggest the battlemaster to you. The one is a missile boat, but if you know anything about that it is easy enough to master. The one with 6 laser points in the torso, if you are careful, you can mount a pair of PPC like on top of your freegin head almost. With them that high, if you can see it, you can shoot it. Hell, if you can almost see it you can probably shoot it. Put a decent XL like a 350 in, or 375 even, get around the map well to find fire lanes. The last one, triple ac2 in the arm, 4ML in torso, big XL engine, engage at mid-long range, core fatties with ease.
The Victor is rewarding once you "unlearn" a few of the phract habbits. You seem to be on the right track.
Dont be the first into a brawl. The Victor does better on the fringes. You cant save a loner in a Victor, I havent found a build that can poor out bralwing dmg fast enough and still mount the big engine that makes a Victor play like a Victor.
It runs a little hot if you're using all the weapons but you get, IIRC, three/four Alpha's before shutdown with double basics. That's more than 200dmg.
Armour bias is not correct, it needs to be frontloaded quite heavily.
In case you are wondering why the different SRM launchers, it's so all 10 missiles fire at once. With two SRM6's you have the final two missiles launching after the ten, which makes hitting with your entire volley a fair bit harder.
It's not a "brawler" as much as it is a Striker than can brawl. Of course, if you get focus-fired you're going down and quickly. But you can prolong your life by jumping to spread damage to your legs, and if you find a lone enemy you can use the JJ's to out maneuver most heavies and all assaults (other than a VTR with a bigger engine).
Personal favourite engines for the VTR are XL325 and XL350, but larger works too. Finally, as mentioned above, you ought to pick up a third Victor so you can get them elited. Again as mentioned, it really comes alive with double basics. With those it feels like a sluggish medium rather than a moderately nimble heavy, I've found. Of course, I just went back to them after playing the Heavy Metal all last night, so a paraplegic slug would feel supremely nimble.
Edit: To round out the chassis, I'd suggest the -9B. The -K suffers due to having a lower arm actuator and therefore being unable to mount 2xUAC or a single AC20, the two most used ballistics on Assault mechs. Plus, if you find a build you really like on the -9S, you can build a very close approximation on the -9B.
It runs a little hot if you're using all the weapons but you get, IIRC, three/four Alpha's before shutdown with double basics. That's more than 200dmg.
I don't know if something has been tweaked with recent patches then... because with the near stock loadout (1x AC20 + SRMs + extra standard heatsinks) i was overheating after just 2 alphas. If i immediately alpha'd a third time after heat shutdown, i'd cause heat damage.
I managed to grind out enough cbills to get DHS last night, so next time i'll try the AC20 loadout... but initially it was a real bust.
An assault that can't stand and brawl with other assaults (atlas excluded) is, imo, pointless.
I own both the Battlemaster and Victor (and Atlas, Stalker, Awesome, and one Highlander) and love them both. Not all models are created equal (which just means there are some I'm not very good with). I started off on assaults. I got the Battlemasters in the Phoenix package, but resisted the Victors for a long time. I was under the impression that they were weak. They're not. My VTR-DS is devastating. It's the only "meta" build that I have (as I recall) but it's effective. I have one AC/5, one UAC5, and two PPCs on it. I routinely score over 800 damage. I'm not as good at jumping and the like as a lot of other pilots, but it comes in handy.
The Battlemaster on the other hand... It's probably not very true, but I find them to be a little more versatile. I have one LRM boat (S model), and the D has 4 med lasers, 2 AC5s, and one ER Large Laser. They both do all right. I'm better served with the G(P) model thought, with 1 PPC, one LRM10 (for long range harassment) and 6 med lasers. Those mediums rip things apart.
Those are my thoughts. I cut my teeth on the Atlas, then I moved to the Stalker. However, I think that the Victor and Battlemaster can, like any other mech in this game, be incredibly effective in the right hands. It's all, ALL about piloting. And the above advice is true: Getting your pilot skills up to Elite will dramatically improve your performance.
Since I said I would in my first post here, take a peek at the build I run on BLR-1G. I've built it on the -1D for you in Smurfy since it is, by far and away, the better variant for it. But it works on both, and if you position yourself well enough the incredibly limited torso twist of the -1G won't pose too much of an issue.
BLR-1D fire support build. Ideally with this you do not under any circumstance want to be the first mech the enemy spots. Keep the LL's on chain fire (ideally in two groups, LT and RT, but you may not have a mouse capable of supporting this, so putting all four on chainfire works well enough for me) and just fire on the mechs that your brawlers are firing on. I've only played 20 matches in mine, but I've averaged 300 damage in the -1G(P) with the occasional <200dmg game.
It's a great mech, but the VTR does everything the BLR could hope to do. It just does it better, other than energy boating, but that's pretty unfavourable in the current meta. Dont tell that to my HBK-4P. The little guy is still racking up 2 kills a match on average >.>
lol Koniving... i just finished re-reading "Wolves on the Border" last night and all i could think of through the final couple chapters was "Man! That dragon would NOT still be standing in MWO"
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