Xeno Phalcon, on 24 February 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:
Arm lasers are your bread and butter against lights unless your packing SSRMs, I find a 325+ engine with at least full elite lets me give grief to the most nimble of lights.
The issue is still that the Orion's CT and ST are large and are easy to hit. You can twist all you want with those ML's on your arms, not going to do you any good as the LRM and AC10/20 fire rains down.
I got rid of my Orion for that reason. Its a sitting duck out there because of its "poor mans Atlas" design theory.
The issue is still that the Orion's CT and ST are large and are easy to hit. You can twist all you want with those ML's on your arms, not going to do you any good as the LRM and AC10/20 fire rains down.
I got rid of my Orion for that reason. Its a sitting duck out there because of its "poor mans Atlas" design theory.
If your getting ***** by lrm and ac10/20 lights are the least of your worries, especially if your in one of the aforementioned walking LRM bombs. For a bit I had 2aLRM15's and 2SSRM2's on my VA but even before the ssrm nerf I found that this was fine for dealing with light harrassers but left me woefully undergunned against heavier opponents that managed to close.
I'm going to put this out there, and I know I'm in something of a minority.
From my perspective, you should not under any circumstances run an Orion as a missile boat. In fact, you should not run actual missile boats at all.
As neat as they can be when conditions are just right, the situations missile boat designs are meant for (having a spotter on the field while your side of the battle is holding the line against an exposed enemy who you can then bombard at leisure) are rare even in 12-man drops, to say nothing of 4-man or pick-up-group drops. So a full-on missile boat is a huge risk and while the rewards are equally large, they tend to be equally rare.
Further, this is an Orion, which has at least two energy and one ballistic slot besides for you to play with, and has considerable maneuverability potential with its large engine size availability, but is still a big slow 'mech. Tossing aside nearly half of your weapon mounts for larger missile salvos and running absolutely minimal close-range weaponry is adding further risk when you don't really need it.
I currently run my Orion VA with four LRM-5s, an LB 10-X, and a pair of medium lasers besides an XL engine, and it performs very nicely in almost any situation. I don't even mount Artemis on it, nevermind a TAG, and that's just fine. It still scores hundreds of damage by missile bombardment (sometimes as much as 400) thanks to a high refire rate and small missile clusters, and that's not even mentioning the damage it can pull off close-up that no pure missile boat could ever hope to match in close quarters. The agility managed by an XL engine besides makes it devastatingly effective against light and medium 'mechs that think it's a true missile boat they can just facehug and tear apart.
Similarly, my Orion V has three simple LRM-15s and a pair of ER Large Lasers so that it can act as both direct and indirect fire support and will pretty much always still be shooting.
If you use a pair of LRM-5s and a pair of LRM-10s you can keep up a roughly .75 second firing rate on chain fire that will mean continuous bombardment, and you will be at no risk (ever) of generating ghost heat (which your build will, as LRM-10s, 15s, and 20s are all on the same Ghost Heat group). Tuning it down to quad 5s means firing even faster and more constantly, and consuming less ammunition while losing less missiles if you happen to be firing on a light 'mech.
My immediate inclination with your machine would be to turn the LRM-15s into LRM-5s and drop another ton of ammunition- you could then turn the saved 11 tons into improved alternative weaponry (such as swapping the medium pulse and TAG out for a pair of large lasers).
As to Beagle and TAG- You don't really need Beagle for LRMs. It only cuts through ECM within about 200 meters, and LRM minimum range is 180 meters- that's a tiny window of range that few 'mechs spend any time in. Tag is iffy on an Orion, particularly since its arms hang very low and that means that many things you would want to peek over terrain with the high cockpit to lock onto for LRM hail cannot then be hit with the tag unless you expose most of your 'mech to enemy fire. If you -can- reach the target with the TAG from your Orion, you would probably be better served by having a direct fire weapon of noteworthy damage instead of the TAG.
Keep in mind that this is my perspective, experience, and opinion, and while yours may not be the same that does not make mine invalid. It is entirely possible that you are experiencing the game differently from me. But everything I know about the game and recall of having played it has fostered in me a belief in mixed loadouts as a superior alternative to most 'single element focus' loadouts such as LRM boats or laser rafts.
-QKD-CR0
Edit: If you watch starting at about 28 or 29 minutes, you can see how my VA performs in a mixed-range match. Personally, I'm plenty happy with it.
Edited by Elli Gujar, 26 February 2014 - 06:28 PM.
That is my current build I am trying for something new. Other people have advised me on getting a bigger engine which will be done for the missle boat version.
Many people say that missle boats need tag unless they have a teamate tag for them. As I would mostly pug (friends that I play with are in different time zones) would tag be good or bad on it?
I've dropped tag from my missle boats and found I'm better off without it but it depends on the mech. Tag in the arm of an Orion isn't going to be anywhere near as usefull as say tag in a battlemaster or stalker. Artemis is a must and being able to go at least 70kph to keep with the group are the most important things.
Note that the arm that has the Medium Laser is more threatening (more damage) so it will be targeted above the TAG (or vice-versa depending on who is your enemy).
I never had a thing for Orion Boats, but this looks about as good as I'd get one. Gl and hf!
Edited by DavidHurricane, 27 February 2014 - 08:56 AM.
Except that CASE only prevents the damage from an ammo explosion transferring out of the side torso and into the center torso- which means that using an XL engine invalidates CASE. If you're running an XL, take the CASE out.
Edited by Elli Gujar, 27 February 2014 - 02:49 PM.
So I made this one because I have a large amount of mechs (mostly lights and mediums) but I don't have a single missle boat. I want to try this Orion out here but am not too sure how it will work out or if anything needs to be changed.
Now before I make it I want to know if anything should be changed so I won't go wasting some c-bills on this build. As i have the mech already my only other option I have for a missle boat is the Battlemaster-1S but i have mastered that already and am working on getting all elites unlocked for this Orion.
Also any advice would be greatly appreciated as I have not really played missle boats.
Edit: Less ammo and bigger engine needed. Thanks Lunatech and Jerrad.
Edit 2: Is BAP needed? Plus someone suggested removing tag. Good or bad idea?
My suggestion as someone who does boat that very model.
1. Drop the LRM10 to LRM5s. Not kidding. You slow your rate of ammo consumption and get tighter groupings with less heat issues. 40 tubes gets the job done with panache.
2. BAP, yes.
3. You're crusing for ammo explosions. If you lose an arm, the ammo explosion will kill you because it will set off the torso in the cascade. Pack your ammo into a single torso, OR split between a torso, legs and head. If you go 40 tubes, you don't need more than 10 tons. Never put ammo in CT except for Gauss ammo. Overheats = Kaboom.
4. No engine smaller than an XL 295. Ever. You're dead meat if you can't go faster than 70.
5. Make sure to pack adv. target decay, adv sensors and probably info gathering. Locks will speed up and stay with you.
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Xeno Phalcon, on 24 February 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:
