89 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Ember shot you in the butt ?

[WhiteFenix]

Seems some of you don't enjoy the MWO mini game, this will brighten your day;
Stock EMBER 6.8 dps
Stock BOARS HEAD 3.22 dps
Thats just hiliarius.
I think you're new too the game and afraid they will nerf your 'I win" button, I'm here to tell you that your button is BROKEN, and it will be fixed. Spread the word and save the ATLAS.

[Bilbo]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Seems some of you don't enjoy the MWO mini game, this will brighten your day;
Stock EMBER 6.8 dps
Stock BOARS HEAD 3.22 dps
Thats just hiliarius.
I think you're new too the game and afraid they will nerf your 'I win" button, I'm here to tell you that your button is BROKEN, and it will be fixed. Spread the word and save the ATLAS.

I'll stick with Boar's Head. Who leaves it stock anyway.

[WhiteFenix]

Calling people trolls should be against forum rules, and probably is.
So, you name call instead of addressing the fact that in the mg world, .5 ton buys 1dps, 4 mg's for 4 dps, almost on par with 2 er ppcs. Yeah your 2 tons vs. the sorry bloke who doles out 14.
In which version of mw you ever played before where 4 mg's was just about equal to 2 erppc's.
It should be downright intolerable to any honest and worthy mechwarrior.
Its the most imbalanced thing ive ever seen in any incarnation of mw since the beginning of the world.

Edited by WhiteFenix, 25 February 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Lightfoot]

By themselves they suck, unless you can carry 16 or something, but you can't. As a back-up weapon they do pretty good.

[Clit Beastwood]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Calling people trolls should be against forum rules, and probably is.
So, you name call instead of addressing the fact that in the mg world, .5 ton buys 1dps, 4 mg's for 4 dps, almost on par with 2 er ppcs. Yeah your 2 tons vs. the sorry bloke who doles out 14.
In which version of mw you ever played before where 4 mg's was just about equal to 2 erppc's.
It should be downright intolerable to any honest and worthy mechwarrior.
Its the most imbalanced thing ive ever seen in any incarnation of mw since the beginning of the world.

I appreciate the level of enthusiasm you display. That being said, they're not going to change the game so you don't have to learn. There are many resources to learn to become a better pilot, and many players that will gladly help guide you through this early stage of your career as a mechwarrior. Feel free to friend me in-game (or shoot me a PM or something), or, probably any of these other players... swallow the "I know better" mindset, and learn. The learning curve of this came is a bit of a vertical wall more than a curve, but there is a community here to help you. Let us

[DEMAX51]

Dude, no offense but I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about.

Consider this:

MGs are the only weapon in the game to suffer from a "cone of fire" effect, making pinpoint precision with them essentially impossible.

They are one of the shortest-range weapons in the game. To use them, you HAVE to get in close, which puts you in a lot of danger.

They run out of ammo fast - the Ember can only take 2-3 tonnes of ammo, and 4 MGs chew through that pretty quickly.

The Ember's torso pitch is minuscule, meaning that using those MGs requires you to be on a relatively even plain with your target. If they're even just a little bit higher or lower than you, the MGs are useless.

You really have to use them in groups of 3+ to have them be even remotely effective

You say that MGs should be used only for harassment - if they do virtually no damage, how does that harass anyone at all? They'll just ignore you.

MGs are finally in a usable place, but they are far FAR from OP.

Long story short, if you're having trouble fighting against an Ember in your Atlas, you're probably doing something very wrong.

Edited by DEMAX51, 25 February 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Bilbo]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Calling people trolls should be against forum rules, and probably is.
So, you name call instead of addressing the fact that in the mg world, .5 ton buys 1dps, 4 mg's for 4 dps, almost on par with 2 er ppcs. Yeah your 2 tons vs. the sorry bloke who doles out 14.
In which version of mw you ever played before where 4 mg's was just about equal to 2 erppc's.
It should be downright intolerable to any honest and worthy mechwarrior.
Its the most imbalanced thing ive ever seen in any incarnation of mw since the beginning of the world.

That Boar's head you talked about earlier is going to kill you before you get an opportunity to use that DPS. That is if he doesn't just one shot you to begin with.

[Mister Blastman]

WhiteFenix, on 24 February 2014 - 03:58 PM, said:

Machine guns in this incarnation of MW do to much damage.

No.

[Mister Blastman]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

So, you name call instead of addressing the fact that in the mg world, .5 ton buys 1dps, 4 mg's for 4 dps, almost on par with 2 er ppcs. Yeah your 2 tons vs. the sorry bloke who doles out 14.

Wow. This made me LOL.

Stop playing spreadsheet warrior and start being a Mechwarrior in the game. You'll discover that you are horribly wrong.

[Clit Beastwood]

Mister Blastman, on 25 February 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

Wow. This made me LOL.

Stop playing spreadsheet warrior and start being a Mechwarrior in the game. You'll discover that you are horribly wrong.

that danged bus driver picture makes me laugh every time

[FireSlade]

Honestly WhiteFenix try using an Ember and just standing still; you will not last more than 30 seconds and will know what light pilots go through. Piloting a light is tough and at times frustrating. Constantly moving having to always know where your mech is heading and what is around you, then on top of all that you have to dodge enemy shots and manage to get a few hits. Even worse as soon as the enemy see you they drop everything to chase you expecting an easy kill. Also you have not long range weapons so you are always fighting under 200 meters and you have to constantly hit them just to rack up the damage for a kill. In that range even newbies can hit you regularly, whittling down what little armor that you have while you try to be useful and praying that they are not boating streaks. Hardly pay to win or easy mode.

Oh and on a side not the stock Ember has 6.8 DPS and requires you to be within 90 meters for that otherwise it is only 4 DPS. The Boar's Head Stock does 16.93 DPS with an Alpha of 57. Hardly better than the Atlas that is also carrying 3.4 times the armor of the Ember.

Edited by FireSlade, 25 February 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[Sephlock]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

Seems some of you don't enjoy the MWO mini game, this will brighten your day;
Stock EMBER 6.8 dps
Stock BOARS HEAD 3.22 dps
Thats just hiliarius.
I think you're new too the game and afraid they will nerf your 'I win" button, I'm here to tell you that your button is BROKEN, and it will be fixed. Spread the word and save the ATLAS.

Who uses stock mechs (aside from poor newbies)?

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Calling people trolls should be against forum rules, and probably is.
So, you name call instead of addressing the fact that in the mg world, .5 ton buys 1dps, 4 mg's for 4 dps, almost on par with 2 er ppcs. Yeah your 2 tons vs. the sorry bloke who doles out 14.
In which version of mw you ever played before where 4 mg's was just about equal to 2 erppc's.
It should be downright intolerable to any honest and worthy mechwarrior.
Its the most imbalanced thing ive ever seen in any incarnation of mw since the beginning of the world.

As others have pointed out, there are several problems with your analysis.

1 - PPC has a very long range and does all its damage in one hit, MGs are practically point-blank only, spread their damage all over the place (built-in cone of fire), and on the Ember they require that you physically stare at what you're shooting (with 4 MGs you need a minimum of 2.5s to match a single PPC shot, assuming all your damage hits the same single location).

2 - PPCs have a 4.00s cooldown. What that means is that at time 0 (the moment of impact) they have essentially infinite effective dps. At time +0.1s, their effective dps is 100 (to the 4x MG value of 4 dps). At time +0.5s the effective dps of a PPC is 20 (4x MGs still at 4). At time +1.0s the effective dps of the PPC is 10 (4x MGs still at 4 dps). At time +3.9s, the effective dps of the PPC is 2.56 (and quad MGs are still at 4). What happens at time +4.0s? The effective dps of the PPC just shot up to 5. In other words, the PPC heavily frontloads its dps, and the MG only becomes a more potent option over an extended period of time. Throw in the "free" dps time that the PPC gets while the MG carrier is trying to get in range and I don't think you can reasonably argue that MGs are superior simply because of dps over an arbitrarily large time period.

3 - MGs are hitscan, but they have a built-in cone of fire. In other words, you don't need to lead with them, but they aren't precise weapons no matter how accurate you are (though accuracy still pays off as it concentrates damage on and around your target area). PPCs have a projectile speed, which means they require leading, but they also hit precisely where you aim, and they do all their damage to exactly that one spot. This gives them a decisive edge (and is one of the primary reasons for the ubiquitousness of PPCs in most "meta" builds).

TLDR - PPCs do more damage faster, even if over a long period their dps evens out to lower than that of quad MGs. Plus, they're far longer ranged and far more precise, so MGs have all kinds of risks associated with them that PPCs simply don't. In short, dps is useful but far from definitive, and in the special case of MGs it's far worse in practice than it is in theory (until they start hitting internals and getting crits).

[WhiteFenix]

Your responses are very odd, I did not calculate the dps for the seperate weapons or mechs, smurfy did that, and i used stock mechs only to illustrate the imbalance of mg's dps/tonnage.
Really shows how clueless some of you are not to realize these things.
I would suggest that you guys educate yourselves before making some really dumb statements.

Who is smurfy?
What is dps?
ps Darn, I almost forgot, props to you real mech warriors that are running the lasers as your haupt weapon instead of depending on the stand mode at idle with the fire button held down for 5 minutes gg LOL.

Edited by WhiteFenix, 25 February 2014 - 08:52 PM.

[Draxist]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

all that

ok white, just saying, most people posting here have spent more time on the forums than you, and have spent more time in game than you, if your account register time is anything to go by. I was playing WHEN the 6 mg spiders and jagers became a thing to run, and even then, they didn't run those only. What you are talking about sounds more like misinformation and a pride issue than an actual in game issue

however, judging by your responses to everyone else here, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are somehow not yourself right this moment. Most of the responses here have been tame by far and many trying to explain to you the actual mechanics of this game (both number and strategy) but you seem to be blowing them off.

btw this is smurfy. it is a wonderful tool to use, and has all the hard data straight from the game.

on a more critical note: please take off the attitude cape and settle down, saying things like
"

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

...
I would suggest that you guys educate yourselves before making some really dumb statements.
......
.....
What is dps?
ps Darn, I almost forgot, props to you real mech warriors that are running the lasers as your haupt weapon instead of depending on the stand mode at idle with the fire button held down for 5 minutes gg LOL.

would invite the name calling of "troll" which by searching this and the previous page no one has done nor brought up except you and you first. Furthermore, asking "what is dps" when you have previously used the term just lends to you not having favorable views.

my two cents.

[FupDup]

This thread is as sad as it is hilarious.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Koniving, on 24 February 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

Welp... MG, Flamer, and AC/2 in TT do 2 damage in 10 seconds.

In MWO: MG does 10 damage in 10 seconds.
Flamer does 7 damage in 10 seconds.
AC/2 does 38 damage in 10 seconds.
AC/5 does 35 damage in 10 seconds.
ML does 15 damage in 10 seconds.
LL does 27 damage in 10 seconds.
AC/10 does 50 damage in 10 seconds.
AC/20 does 60 damage in 10 seconds.

MG, AC/2, AC/5, AC/10, AC/20 all take one ballistic slot.

When MGs did 2 damage in 10 seconds, everyone cried (because, totally useless).
When MGs did 4 damage in 10 seconds, everyone cried (because, totally useless).
When MGs did 10 damage in 10 seconds (now), people cried (because, pretty useless).

But, interestingly enough... 1 MG = 1 DPS.
One small laser = 1 DPS.

So, are small lasers overpowered too?
What's that say for everything else?

This is a 3 point perspective post.


edit: and that picture looks awful.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 25 February 2014 - 09:27 PM.

[WhiteFenix]

You didn't read all the posts, or 'dude' deleted his.
And your responce is not very intelligible either, for example; most people are explaining the weapons as a matter of damage only, like the ac20 doing 20 damage and not taking into account cooldowns, heat and such. dps is damage per second sustained as calculated by smurfy.
You sir are the one trolling, or you honestly do not know this? Do you really think that the mechs are designed according to your feel? laughable, even /face palm worthy.
If you honestly do not know this, then it is you who is in need of education and you should be quite, unless you want to make yourself look like an idiot.
You also do not address the issue that is dps vs tonnage imbalance that is in the MG world.
Once again for you unbelievers;

MG .5 tons = 1 dps
erpps 7 tons = 2.5 dps

Your 4 freaking mgs are doing almost as much damage as 2 erppcs(rediculous) over a given amount of time.
rage on!!

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

WhiteFenix, on 25 February 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

You didn't read all the posts, or 'dude' deleted his.
And your responce is not very intelligible either, for example; most people are explaining the weapons as a matter of damage only, like the ac20 doing 20 damage and not taking into account cooldowns, heat and such. dps is damage per second sustained as calculated by smurfy.
You sir are the one trolling, or you honestly do not know this? Do you really think that the mechs are designed according to your feel? laughable, even /face palm worthy.
If you honestly do not know this, then it is you who is in need of education and you should be quite, unless you want to make yourself look like an idiot.
You also do not address the issue that is dps vs tonnage imbalance that is in the MG world.
Once again for you unbelievers;

MG .5 tons = 1 dps
erpps 7 tons = 2.5 dps

Your 4 freaking mgs are doing almost as much damage as 2 erppcs(rediculous) over a given amount of time.
rage on!!

You forget ammo. The lightest an MG can be is 1.5tons. Using a rule of 1 ton for 2 guns, you're looking at 4 tons for 4 dps. And again, that's dps spread all over the target, that requires you to be right in the target's face, and that requires you to stare at the target to apply it. Plus, MG ammo is a great way to die; 2000 rounds at 0.1 damage per round means if one of those tons of ammo gets popped you take 200 damage straight to your insides.

Compared to a PPC that front-loads its damage (2 shots in 4 seconds means 1 PPC does the same damage over that period as 5 MGs, at many times the range, without having to stare at the target for the whole duration, and concentrated on at most 2 hit locations, though it's usually easy enough to focus fire that both shots will hit the same location) and it's not even a contest.

I've run 6 MG Jagers, I've run 4 MG Embers, and I've run PPC builds of many kinds. MGs, even six of them, are essentially worthless against any mech with decent armor. They tear it up if they get hits on internal structure, and damage transfer from their amplified critical hits can be brutal, but that only works if the target is already beat up.

The fact that you can't seem to last against MG builds suggests to me that you aren't good at spreading damage around your mech, nor are you competent at using cover. I wonder if you've been using the Trial Stalker and getting shot in the back by Embers with MGs. That mech specifically is a death trap (the Champion Stalker). One volley of 4x MLs will tear out its back armor, and the quad MGs will then blow the XL engine PGI foolishly gave it in seconds flat.

My advice would be to use the Cicada or the Dragon, unless you got five wins this past weekend and have a shiny new Champion Centurion. Slap an AC10 and 2 MLs in that thing and have fun.