10 replies to this topic

[Ddraig]

I've been playing for a couple weeks now, and I've noticed that an issue my team often encounters is with targeting. Good LRM setups become useless if the enemy is running ECM or if our brawlers keep changing targets.

With that in mind, my first mech purchase is a spider with ECM which I use primarily for spotting. I have a TAG on it which I use to pick out good targets for our LRMs. I run to a good spot where the enemy team doesn't notice me and TAG my targets, then watch the missiles rain down.

Since I want to stay at range and keep targets painted, I thought a sniper setup would work well. Right now I have an ER-LLas and it does decent damage. However, using the laser both reveals my location and causes the enemy to seek cover from me (thus breaking my TAG lock).

With this is mind I have some questions:

1: Assuming my team is using my target lock for LRMs, should I refrain from shooting? I always feel weird having a perfect shot at a stationary mech and just not taking it, but I don't want them to suddenly notice me and break my TAG lock. Is it better to sit quietly or take the guaranteed damage from the laser shot?

2: Is the PPC a better weapon for my setup? The LLas is like an arrow leading straight back to my location. I have no experience with the PPC, is it less likely to reveal where I'm shooting from?

3: Would your answer to question 1 change depending on if I was using an LLas or PPC?


Thanks for any help/insight you veterans can provide!

[Koniving]

Shortest Kon post ever?

Ddraig, on 25 February 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

With this is mind I have some questions:

1: Assuming my team is using my target lock for LRMs, should I refrain from shooting? I always feel weird having a perfect shot at a stationary mech and just not taking it, but I don't want them to suddenly notice me and break my TAG lock. Is it better to sit quietly or take the guaranteed damage from the laser shot?

2: Is the PPC a better weapon for my setup? The LLas is like an arrow leading straight back to my location. I have no experience with the PPC, is it less likely to reveal where I'm shooting from?

3: Would your answer to question 1 change depending on if I was using an LLas or PPC?

Thanks for any help/insight you veterans can provide!

1) Shoot! Just don't stand too close.
Note on setup: Tag helps, but isn't a true counter. It allows them to target but that can take between 4 and up to 8 seconds.
Being near them after hitting J (switching ECM to Counter) will be a lot more effective.
2) A PPC helps. But it is still an arrow leading back to you. It's good if you can hit the target but running combat will become more difficult.
3) Slightly. If using LL, keep in constant motion. If using PPCs, stay hidden for as long as possible but still shoot. If possible, shoot the enemy so it looks like you're not where you are.

Example: If behind and above an enemy Stalker, shoot the topside of the front torso. This makes him think he's being shot from in front.

If standing in front and to the left of a Hunchback, shoot the giant "gas tank" above its left torso. This registers as a ~rear~ torso hit, and makes him think you are behind him when in fact you are not.

Against a Centurion, hit the Mohawk. Makes them think shot from in front, counts as CT, and is easy to hit repeatedly.

If it is too difficult to hit a convincing bodypart to deceive the enemy, go for a leg. You should always go for the legs of Ravens, Firestarters, Commandos and Spiders. Do not go for the legs of Jenners, go for the "alligator head" instead.

But note: TAG is a beam that is visible to the naked eye (barely), Night Vision (looks like a laser) and Thermal (Looks like a big white shoot me beacon).

Good luck, Spider.
o7 from the one and only Gauss Spider.

[puffaholic]

the best weapon for stealthy sniping is the gauss rifle but that is not a very realistic possibility for the spider. i personally run a TAG and ER PPC when spotting on my spider and i would suggest trying that loadout. they will still see your shots incoming if facing you, but there is less chance of the PPC revealing your position than the ER LL.

another hint i can offer is try to position yourself behind the enemy's forward field of view when spotting. the TAG you will be using to spot with will actually give your position away more readily than the PPC or ER LL you are using to add damage since it ideally remains on the target for the duration of time LRMS are being launched at the target. by positioning yourself behind the enemy they will not be able to see the TAG targeting them.

i would agree with Koniving's advice as well to never pass up a good shot. if you are positioned far enough from the mech you are targeting with TAG then the best possible scenario is that mech turns to try and shoot at you to eliminate the TAG. he will waste time and ammo trying to pick off a spider from such range, it will distract the enemy fire from your teammates, and possibly force enemy mechs to open their backs up to your friendly mech when they turn to face you.

Edited by puffaholic, 25 February 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Koniving]

And if you should need help escaping a bad situation, refer to what's going on here. It starts during the fight, but wait for the retreat. Note that the minimap line (----->) is where your legs are facing. Watch what I do when I start retreating with a bad leg.

[Rabid Monkey]

Sort of depends on your tactical situation. If you're unnoticed, and your team is raining death on the guy, might as well go on being unnoticed and hold the lock...your teammates will thank you for it. As far as PPC's vs LLs are concerned, again, your preference. PPCs are probably even less stealthy than lasers, but have the bonus of knocking out enemy ECMs for a few seconds upon impact. That being said....is there an efficient PPC Spider build? I usually shove the biggest engine I can in mine and mount smaller weapons. Speed is paramount.

[DONTOR]

I have a buddy I play with that uses a TAG and ERPPC on the spider ive seen him get 900 damage with the ERPPC alone, and maintain locks for missles. Maybe let a volley or 2 impact before firing if your that worried about it.
Either way an ERPPC is a good idea on a spider.

Edited by DONTOR, 25 February 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[mailin]

If you can time it so that the ER PPC hits at the same time, or near enough as the lrms, so much the better.

[Wildstreak]

First some notes about LRM users.

It is nice that you run a TAG to assist them, but I would have done it on another Mech. Spiders have very few hardpoints and I would never sacrifice one for a TAG.

As to the questions.

1 - Depends on the situtation. If the target is near dead, take some shots. If not, you have to decide if you should hold the lock. The priority is where the other enemies are. As they move around, watch to see if they might notice you. If you feel you may get spotted whether you fire or not, move and find a different target.

Also if you can time your shots to when missiles hit, they may not notice you.

2 - Never take a lone PPC is my rule. With a 90m minimum range, you would have to always avoid 0-90m or risk having no weapon for fighting back. ERPPC brings more heat. Given the fast speed of a Spider, I would run a LPL at the same tonnage, it does the same damage for less heat and no minimum thus making for better close range defense. The beam duration is shorter than typical lasers so less time aiming on target.

3 - No.

[Koniving]

There was something I forgot to mention. A match from yesterday and a thought today reminded me.

There was a spotter getting ready to spot us in Tourmaline. It had a great hiding spot. It was behind us. It never would have been noticed.

...But it had ECM.

"LOW SIGNAL!"

I flipped around and saw the tip of his head instantly. I fired twice. Headshot. Body shot. (My weapons shoot fast). He went critical head structure, meaning he didn't have much if any armor there. He retreated of course and I didn't see him again.

In chat I typed, "You forgot to switch your ECM to counter. Jamming shows up."

The moral of the story is this: If you want to be undetected at range, set ECM to JAMMING.

If you want to be undetected up close and behind, set ECM to Counter and walk softly (to counter Seismic).

[Ddraig]

Thanks so much for all the replies! A few comments/responses:

• I'm running the spider mostly because it was the cheapest setup I could find that let me ECM, TAG, and run at high speed. All others setups required more investment (new engines, etc), or were missing a piece (too slow, no ECM, etc)
  
• The hardpoint for the TAG isn't an issue since I'm not trying to run a short range ECM laserboat. I just want to tag and snipe. To that end, pulse lasers and med lasers aren't what I'm looking for.
  
• Great thoughts on timing my hit to coincide with the missile barrages, I never thought of that! I might still get spotted, but definitely less chance.
  
• I know TAG can give away my location as well, but I try to get behind the enemy before using it.

Thanks again everyone. I think I'll try the ERPPC for a while to see how it goes. If I time my shots to line up with missile hits I think the single hit PPC will hide me just a tad better than the DoT laser.

[mailin]

Glad to help. Also, if you're using tag, make sure to tag the enemy closest to you, otherwise there's a greater likelihood of being noticed. Hint: On Frozen City, I will usually announce my intentions and fly up Jenner Alley to get behind the enemy. Once somewhat in position, I will cycle through the potential targets to see who is closest to me (at the rear of the pack), then get within 750M, zoom on him and not TAG until the reticle is on him. (Less chance of missing and giving away your position.)