29 replies to this topic

[Emnel1]

My friends just started to play this game and is wondering about what mech to buy as his 1st.

He want' something for med/close range with decent tankishness but I have neither knowledge nor experience to advice him.

He's new player so clearly something strong, not gimmicky and not crazy hard to use. Possibly not very expensive either since every new player wants to buy few mechs to test them etc.

What mechs would you guys suggest for the 1st mech keeping in mind all the things about engines, need of upgrades as well as reasonably good 2nd and 3rd mechs if he were to elite it.

[Charons Little Helper]

I still say that the hunchback is a great newbie mech - especially if they want to brawl.

It's not the best mech in the game - but solid.

It's one of the cheapest mechs in the game to fully kit out. (anything smaller pretty much requires an XL engine) A standard 250 engine works at least okay with every variant.

And with tonnage limits coming in April - everyone should probably have at least one medium or lighter mech.

Have him try something along these lines to start - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc2189a8139beba

Some people will tell you that Shadowhawks are superior in every way due to jumpjets - but I've found that they generally work best with XL engines - making them far more expensive to kit out.

[Emnel1]

I suggested what you siad but he insists on something heavier/tougher. Anything good in that department?

[SpartanOfValor]

personally, I find this effective http://mwo.smurfy-ne...912021dda1df880

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Unfortunately, something heavier or tougher is just flat out going to be considerably more expensive. If you absolutely have to start in a heavy 'mech, then my recommendation is going to be with the Cataphract. It's decently durable, the variants tend to be pretty distinct (one has jump jets, one has usable missile hardpoints- not great ones, but usable ones- one is slower but can mount quad autocannons, most of them have decent energy hardpoints), and it's fairly easy to pilot. The arm mounts are rather low, also, which is good for practice at getting your arms around things to shoot past obstacles. The caveat on that, of course, is that most people will recommend doing the same thing with cataphracts, so there's little in the way of variety out there among most players, but the 'mech is capable of a lot more varied loadouts than most will give it.

Seriously, though, if he's going to be able to afford putting together his first 'mech and get good practice at doing a variety of things, it needs to be a Medium weight 'mech.. The Hunchback is an excellent 'mech for this because of its highly varied loadouts, compact size, reasonable engine capacity, and overall being actually fairly tough.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 14 February 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Given what you said, without question your three best options:

Shadow Hawk
Cataphract
Victor

The Shadow Hawk is INCREDIBLY diverse (esp. the 2D2 and 2H), can mount all kinds of configurations from brawler to fire support, and is considered the best medium in the game right now. Easily recommendable if he wants to find his niche.

The Cataphract is still the best heavy in the game, with the 3D, 4X and Ilya leading the pack and 1X at the bottom right now. The 3D is Jump capable, powerful, been the top dog since it's introduction and has a hardpoint layout that can handle pretty much anything the meta throws at it. The 4X packs 4 AC/5s and is a lot of fun for heavy damage dakka, but is pretty one-note for new players - great 2nd 'mech if he chooses this to master, though.

Finally I recommend the Victor, as it's a reasonably fast assault that plays like a hybrid of the Cataphract and Highlander. You can run good STD engine setups on it and it runs 2x UAC5 2x PPC like a champ, plus the 9S has enough hard points to try other things like SRMs. I recommend it over the Highlander as it's superior speed (while carrying the same firepower) will allow him to try out more roles than the more restrictive, larger and slower, 'mech.

---

A lot of people might recommend that he get a Hunchback or something to learn on because there is a view that buying an inferior 'mech will somehow help you train better. It won't. These are the best 'mechs in the game hands down and will give him something that he won't be wasting time investing some XP grinding into, and will last him for a very long time.

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 February 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[Victor Morson]

LegoSpartan, on 14 February 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

personally, I find this effective http://mwo.smurfy-ne...912021dda1df880

While I'd spread the ammo out more (the head is always a good spot to put some, since it's rarely hit and it's the first used location) to try to get that much out of the legs, but that is just about the best you can do with the 1X.

Emnel, on 14 February 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I suggested what you siad but he insists on something heavier/tougher. Anything good in that department?

Missed this post. Victor for sure then.

Heavy, tough, reasonably maneuverable, equally good at long, medium or close range. Can't go wrong with it. An assault for someone who wants what is basically a super heavy. Start with the 9S, it's the most diverse variant and it runs that 2x PPC 2x UAC5 build, 2x PPC 2x AC5 build or 1x AC20 2x PPC builds perfectly for three starter meta options, but he can do much more with it.

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 February 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[TimePeriod]

Yeah the Victor is quite versatile.

[Emnel1]

Thx for great advices. I thought that Victor would be very expensive being assault but it indeed looks like people use him cheap too. Might even get one myself

I came up with something like that for starters:

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6bf4a35e03d2422[/smurfy]

Is it any good? (wanted to use stock engine at 1st)

Edited by Emnel, 14 February 2014 - 10:49 AM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

A lot of people might recommend that he get a Hunchback or something to learn on because there is a view that buying an inferior 'mech will somehow help you train better. It won't. These are the best 'mechs in the game hands down and will give him something that he won't be wasting time investing some XP grinding into, and will last him for a very long time.

This is not why I recommended the Hunchback, and you really need to not jump to conclusions.

I recommended the Hunchback for the same reason I recommended the Cataphract- both are solid, relatively straightforwards 'mechs with significantly different variants and a lot of options. Whether a 'mech is commonly used or frequently seen in 'top tier' or competition matches has precisely nothing to do with whether or not it's a good 'mech to start off with.

In fact, I would go so far as to specifically recommend against starting out with a Victor, I think it's a terrible 'mech to start playing the game with.

Using a Victor optimally means taking into account a number of traits that are not very good to deal with as a new player.

First of all, the Victor is an assault 'mech. This means that not only is it expensive, it's also huge, and that means a player starting out in one isn't going to get the kind of practice in lower-end maneuvering to reduce incoming damage that they ought to- it's simply not as capable of dodgery without a huge expensive XL engine as Medium or Heavy 'mechs are. On top of that, being an assault 'mech, it's one of the priority targets on the battlefield with means you're going to get shot at first and quickly. Besides, assault 'mechs, being very big, can't take advantage of cover as well, so there's a loss of practice on that too.

Secondly, most competitive Victors and most recommended Victor builds lean on an XL engine, which means getting taken out of the match fast if you don't already know how to mitigate the threat of side torso loss. This results in a lot of matches being abbreviated for a newer player, who may not last long enough to get any decent practice in, nevermind actually enjoying the battle.

Thirdly, all the Victors are more or less the same- ballistic right arm, energy left arm, missile left torso. The number of hardpoints (and missile tubes) varies, but it's all the same types of weapons in the same places. That promotes restricted, similar builds and thus a lack of experience with varied weapon locations and types.

The Victor, I think, is as prohibitive a starting 'mech as any other assault- you really, really need your first 'mech to be a generalist instead of a specialist, or you're going to have a hard time learning the varied tactics and responses you need as a player to learn to use 'mechs that don't fit that same specialist profile. The Victor, Highlander, and to a lesser extent the Awesome are all specialist 'mechs, and the Awesome, Battlemaster, Stalker, and Atlas are expensive giant billboards that cannot be used effectively by a pilot who didn't already know what they were doing.

The Hunchback and Cataphract don't have these same issues.

The Hunch and the Phract are medium and heavy 'mechs, respectively. While the Phract is noticeably more expensive, neither of them is a tall fat target, and while the Phract's face and back are broad, they're relatively stout and its side profile is fairly flat. Both of them have decent agility and twisting capabilities at least (the Hunch has one of the best torso twist capacities in the game), and both do well with standard engines without suffering a serious loss of tonnage to devote to other components. While the Hunchie is a smaller and less prominent target on the battlefield, the Cataphract is squat for its weight and hard enough to hit that it doesn't matter so much that everyone wants it dead most of the time.

The HBK-4SP can actually tolerate an XL fairly well, and Cataphracts don't lose too much durability from an XL engine, but it's really not neccessary for either. The other forms of Hunchback kind of need a standard engine in most situations, since the majority of their weapon mounts are in the right torso, but with a head-mount laser and their tiny, hard-to-damage arms, it's very difficult to ever leave one weaponless. Using standard engines and having a broad spread of usable hardpoints means that these 'mechs last a long time in combat, even when the pilot isn't up to speed yet on their dodging and twisting skills.

Third of all, the Hunchback especially, but also the Cataphract, offers a wide variety of different potential weapons loads, meaning the driver can play around with a lot of potential configurations for each variant before settling down, and each variant is capable of significantly different things from one another, meaning the driver gets a very varied experience and learns a lot about which things they enjoy or don't enjoy doing and which things they are good or bad at doing.

That is why I recommended the Hunchback and Cataphract, not because of some imaginary 'badness' about the Hunchback.

-QKD-CR0

Edited by Elli Gujar, 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

This is not why I recommended the Hunchback, and you really need to not jump to conclusions.

I recommended the Hunchback for the same reason I recommended the Cataphract- both are solid, relatively straightforwards 'mechs with significantly different variants and a lot of options. Whether a 'mech is commonly used or frequently seen in 'top tier' or competition matches has precisely nothing to do with whether or not it's a good 'mech to start off with.

Sure it does. Mastering a 'mech takes a long time, and you want something that you'll want to use months down the line rather than something you'll trash.

Plus everything I recommended also has lots of options, it just does them better than the alternatives.

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

In fact, I would go so far as to specifically recommend against starting out with a Victor, I think it's a terrible 'mech to start playing the game with.

Using a Victor optimally means taking into account a number of traits that are not very good to deal with as a new player.

First of all, the Victor is an assault 'mech. This means that not only is it expensive, it's also huge, and that means a player starting out in one isn't going to get the kind of practice in lower-end maneuvering to reduce incoming damage that they ought to- it's simply not as capable of dodgery without a huge expensive XL engine as Medium or Heavy 'mechs are. On top of that, being an assault 'mech, it's one of the priority targets on the battlefield with means you're going to get shot at first and quickly. Besides, assault 'mechs, being very big, can't take advantage of cover as well, so there's a loss of practice on that too.

First off: The Victor is not that pricey. It's actually only a few million higher than a medium, and it runs STD engines fine. This weird rumor going around that you only run them XL is.. well, nothing more than a rumor. They can be pretty cheap to setup for sure.

Second off: The Victor can support very large engines. It keeps up with Cataphracts and other heavies without issue. You can even get one into the 80s if you really wanted to. If you'll notice I specifically suggested the Victor over the Highlander for this very reason, though, as the Highlander is drastically slower.

The Victor does either.

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Secondly, most competitive Victors and most recommended Victor builds lean on an XL engine, which means getting taken out of the match fast if you don't already know how to mitigate the threat of side torso loss. This results in a lot of matches being abbreviated for a newer player, who may not last long enough to get any decent practice in, nevermind actually enjoying the battle.

Again. No. These are common builds:

AC20 Brawler
AC5 + PPC (Any Victor)
Ultra + PPC Victor

Notice what's missing from all of those? XL.

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Thirdly, all the Victors are more or less the same- ballistic right arm, energy left arm, missile left torso. The number of hardpoints (and missile tubes) varies, but it's all the same types of weapons in the same places. That promotes restricted, similar builds and thus a lack of experience with varied weapon locations and types.

"I don't like the meta so you should run slapdash stuff because table top and stuff!" is all you are saying.

How is having BALLISTIC, ENERGY *AND* MISSILE hardpoints "limiting?" Or force you to run "Samey builds?" It gives you flexibility to do whatever you want with it, including run meta. If the meta changes, it's got other options, BECAUSE of that solid hardpoint layout.

Granted, the Victor variants other than the DS are pretty similar (unlike the more diverse Shadow Hawk) but they can all run so many configs it doesn't matter much in the end.

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

The Victor, I think, is as prohibitive a starting 'mech as any other assault- you really, really need your first 'mech to be a generalist instead of a specialist, or you're going to have a hard time learning the varied tactics and responses you need as a player to learn to use 'mechs that don't fit that same specialist profile. The Victor, Highlander, and to a lesser extent the Awesome are all specialist 'mechs, and the Awesome, Battlemaster, Stalker, and Atlas are expensive giant billboards that cannot be used effectively by a pilot who didn't already know what they were doing.

But you just pointed out the Victor is a generalist, while I'm also saying it can be a specialist. If SRMs come back in vogue, guess what? Victor is still standing tall. That's why it's a good 'mech for this.

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

The Hunchback and Cataphract don't have these same issues.

The Cataphract has all of the issues you just brought up including the common usage of XL on some variants. The Hunchback has a whole slew of issues we've not even talked about.

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

The Hunch and the Phract are medium and heavy 'mechs, respectively. While the Phract is noticeably more expensive, neither of them is a tall fat target, and while the Phract's face and back are broad, they're relatively stout and its side profile is fairly flat. Both of them have decent agility and twisting capabilities at least (the Hunch has one of the best torso twist capacities in the game), and both do well with standard engines without suffering a serious loss of tonnage to devote to other components. While the Hunchie is a smaller and less prominent target on the battlefield, the Cataphract is squat for its weight and hard enough to hit that it doesn't matter so much that everyone wants it dead most of the time.

The HBK-4SP can actually tolerate an XL fairly well, and Cataphracts don't lose too much durability from an XL engine, but it's really not neccessary for either. The other forms of Hunchback kind of need a standard engine in most situations, since the majority of their weapon mounts are in the right torso, but with a head-mount laser and their tiny, hard-to-damage arms, it's very difficult to ever leave one weaponless. Using standard engines and having a broad spread of usable hardpoints means that these 'mechs last a long time in combat, even when the pilot isn't up to speed yet on their dodging and twisting skills.

Third of all, the Hunchback especially, but also the Cataphract, offers a wide variety of different potential weapons loads, meaning the driver can play around with a lot of potential configurations for each variant before settling down, and each variant is capable of significantly different things from one another, meaning the driver gets a very varied experience and learns a lot about which things they enjoy or don't enjoy doing and which things they are good or bad at doing.

That is why I recommended the Hunchback and Cataphract, not because of some imaginary 'badness' about the Hunchback.

-QKD-CR0

I won't argue the Cataphract. It's a good 'mech and the best heavy in the game. It has some weaknesses in the design for sure, but every 'mech does. The Victor is effectively a slightly slower and more armored Cataphract with better hit boxes, pretty much. It's also 10 tons heavier which is why the Cataphract remains popular.

I don't see how you can recommend one so seriously but not the other. They're practically cousins. Your arguments about speed and assault weaknesses would really apply more if I was suggesting a Highlander.*

* Not the XL thing though. Nobody runs an XL Highlander.

Edited by Victor Morson, 14 February 2014 - 12:39 PM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Sure it does. Mastering a 'mech takes a long time, and you want something that you'll want to use months down the line rather than something you'll trash.

Plus everything I recommended also has lots of options, it just does them better than the alternatives.

While I can't argue that it's nice to have something you can be absolutely sure you want to keep, the question here is not 'what can I use later to win' but 'what can I use now to learn the game'. And I will argue -that- until the sun burns out. Just because it is used for the highest end builds later on doesn't mean it's a good thing for learning the ropes in.

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

First off: The Victor is not that pricey. It's actually only a few million higher than a medium, and it runs STD engines fine. This weird rumor going around that you only run them XL is.. well, nothing more than a rumor. They can be pretty cheap to setup for sure.

Second off: The Victor can support very large engines. It keeps up with Cataphracts and other heavies without issue. You can even get one into the 80s if you really wanted to. If you'll notice I specifically suggested the Victor over the Highlander for this very reason, though, as the Highlander is drastically slower.

The Victor does either.

Those very large engines, though, are very heavy, and result in considerable restrictions on which weapons can be mounted. Personally, I'm all for running Victors without XL engines- but that doesn't mean that it happens commonly, or that many/any of the recommended builds for them these days actually go without XL engines.

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Again. No. These are common builds:

AC20 Brawler
AC5 + PPC (Any Victor)
Ultra + PPC Victor

Notice what's missing from all of those? XL.

I also notice that missile racks are entirely missing from all of those, the 'Brawler' has no ammo longevity, and the latter two are both poptarters with virtually no heat sinking capacity. Poptarting is -not- a good beginner tactic, nor is it a good playstyle for learning the game. Regardless of whether or not you or I personally enjoy or are good at poptarting, it's not something a player should be doing when they're in the process of learning how the game operates and how to play it.

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

"I don't like the meta so you should run slapdash stuff because table top and stuff!" is all you are saying.

My post makes no references to tabletop, nor to 'the meta' (which is an abusive misuse of a term anyways), so this sentence here makes no sense. Please explain why you bothered typing it.

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

How is having BALLISTIC, ENERGY *AND* MISSILE hardpoints "limiting?" Or force you to run "Samey builds?" It gives you flexibility to do whatever you want with it, including run meta. If the meta changes, it's got other options, BECAUSE of that solid hardpoint layout.

Granted, the Victor variants other than the DS are pretty similar (unlike the more diverse Shadow Hawk) but they can all run so many configs it doesn't matter much in the end.

It's 'limiting' because the hardpoints are in the same locations on all available configurations, meaning the player isn't going to get experience dealing with weapons that are mounted in differing locations compared to their cockpit. It doesn't force samey builds, but it does encourage them- not only are the weapons all mounted in the exact same locations in all instances, but the missile racks have very small tube numbers, making LRM use not just restricted but also a bit weird in some situations.

As for this 'meta' thing, please drop it, this has nothing to do with what I do or don't feel about the most commonly used or 'high end' builds for the 'mech. I only mentioned anything of the sort because it has an impact on what information a player is going to find about the 'mech when checking around the forums and such places.

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

But you just pointed out the Victor is a generalist, while I'm also saying it can be a specialist. If SRMs come back in vogue, guess what? Victor is still standing tall. That's why it's a good 'mech for this.

The Victor is not, in fact, a generalist. For the reasons I pointed out. While it could be interpereted as one solely based on the fact that it has all three weapon hardpoint types, the fact of the matter is that practical and practiced usage of the 'mech does not bear out such a viewpoint. As for SRMs, we're talking about -now-, not some nebulous other time. I don't care what could happen later if something changes, nor does the OP- they're asking about what they should do right now.

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

The Cataphract has all of the issues you just brought up including the common usage of XL on some variants. The Hunchback has a whole slew of issues we've not even talked about.

The Cataphract only shares one issue with the Victor- that the one with a decent missile hardpoint setup has a small tube count. Only one of them has jump jets, so there's variety there, their weapons are mounted in widely varying setups that differ not just in number of hardpoints but hardpoint locations, and they simply aren't the same degree of prominent nor easy target that the Victor tends to be. The Hunchback doesn't even have the same issues across all variants either, given the lack of 'hunch' on the SP, though the 'hunch' thing is close to a pan-variant issue.

Victor Morson, on 14 February 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

I won't argue the Cataphract. It's a good 'mech and the best heavy in the game. It has some weaknesses in the design for sure, but every 'mech does. The Victor is effectively a slightly slower and more armored Cataphract with better hit boxes, pretty much. It's also 10 tons heavier which is why the Cataphract remains popular.

I don't see how you can recommend one so seriously but not the other. They're practically cousins.

I consider the Victor to actually be a worse-hitbox 'mech, given its preponderance of arm-mounted weapons combined with the easily targetted arms and shoulders. As to whether or not the Cataphract is 'best heavy', I don't give a fetid pair of dingoes' kidneys. The fact of the matter is that it offers a wide range of different strategies and loadouts with a lot of differences even in just what the hardpoints are on each variant of the chassis- which is what I'm pointing out as relevant here.

The question is not 'what 'mech should my friend take to keep using forever', nor is it 'what 'mech should my friend take to follow the most common current strategy'. The question is 'my friend wants a durable, powerful 'mech (preferably heavy) to learn to play the game with, which one should he buy?' And unless a new Victor variant comes out with a significantly different hardpoint setup or at least a noticeable difference in maneuverability profile, I'm just not going to recommend the Victor any more than I would recommend the Jaegermech (although for admissably somewhat different reasons).

[Victor Morson]

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

While I can't argue that it's nice to have something you can be absolutely sure you want to keep, the question here is not 'what can I use later to win' but 'what can I use now to learn the game'. And I will argue -that- until the sun burns out.

The Mechwarrior newbie helping community: The only game community ever that knowingly recommends bad stuff to newbies asking for advice on GOOD stuff, because they think this somehow builds character.

You learn the game best playing in a good 'mech. Period. Playing with a handicap does not make you a better pilot, it makes you one who didn't learn Mechlab very well, and that's 50% of the game.

OP: I'm giving you straight answers on what the best stuff in the game is. If you would rather drive subpar stuff on the advice of other folks, feel more than welcome, but I think most folks will agree the suggested chassis and/or builds are top of the line.

Elli Gujar, on 14 February 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

The question is not 'what 'mech should my friend take to keep using forever', nor is it 'what 'mech should my friend take to follow the most common current strategy'. The question is 'my friend wants a durable, powerful 'mech (preferably heavy) to learn to play the game with, which one should he buy?'

Because, clearly, a 'mech that can keep up with heavies, hit like a Highlander, and has hardpoints to try a dozen different builds is not a good fit because... uh.. it's a great 'mech and newbies should buy trash because that'll teach 'em.. uh.. something.. BOOT STRAPS

Edited by Victor Morson, 15 February 2014 - 02:56 AM.

[Roachbugg]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...02c3d4f16787f21

I had a lot of success with this the Orion is a nice divers chassis but still don't recommend stating in anything bigger than a medium and the hunchback is one of the best around

[Redshift2k5]

I would have to put my vote on the Shadow Hawk. Great hitboxes make it forgiving of small mistakes, decent speed, lots of loadout options. Rub well with XLs which drives up the price, but buying one Shadow Hawk + DHS + an XL engine is possible with the Cadet Bonus.

The Shadow Hawk 5M even comes with an XL, Endo, and Double Heat sinks stock, making it upgraded right out of the box for a cool 8 mil and makes a great starter mech since you don't need to struggle with upgrades.

[Victor Morson]

Redshift2k5, on 15 February 2014 - 03:51 AM, said:

I would have to put my vote on the Shadow Hawk. Great hitboxes make it forgiving of small mistakes, decent speed, lots of loadout options. Rub well with XLs which drives up the price, but buying one Shadow Hawk + DHS + an XL engine is possible with the Cadet Bonus.

The Shadow Hawk 5M even comes with an XL, Endo, and Double Heat sinks stock, making it upgraded right out of the box for a cool 8 mil and makes a great starter mech since you don't need to struggle with upgrades.

The best part about the Shadow hawk is I could make a strong case for all three variants. I think the 5M and 2D2 are really the best overall, but even the 2H has some good builds. It's a real nice class to master because there's no "Ugh, I've gotta do this one?" feeling ever.

[TimePeriod]

STD230, AC20 x2. 2sl and 5 tons of ammo. Endo+DHS. Catapult K2.

Best fun I've had for days.

[meteorol]

I don't want to get in the "victor or not" issue above (well, personally i'd say go for the victor for sure, most versatile mech along with the HGN), but why would you recommend a hunchback for a new player?

He would be murdered over and over and over again with it. A new player doesn't know how to protect the hunch. Even experienced players have problems doing so if someone focuses them and goes for the hunch. This thing is almost impossible to miss and losing it crippels most Hunchback variants.
The hunchback is in the perfect "Too slow to dodge, not enough armor to tank, easily disarmed" spot.
Yeah it will have 1 or 2 ML once the hunch is gone. Which will be a few seconds after a new player engaged the first enemy.

Even on base elo his friend will encounter 2PPC /AC20 or 2x UAC5 builds. I just started playing a jager for the lulz, never played heavy before so i'm on base elo with them, and i see those meta builds every single match.
A 2PPC/AC20 build needs 4 seconds (1 recycle) to put enough damage on a hunchback to "dehunch" him. Same damage to the CT and he is almost cored.
Learning to keep a Hunchback alive in the current pinpoint meta is certainly nothing i would advice to a new player.
It has a bulky frame, is easy to hit, will go something around 92kph max, which is NOT enough to make any half-decent ppc shooter miss it.
While it is a good mech in theory, the current meta of high pinpoint damage makes it a mech hard to pilot, too hard for a new player in my eyes.

He will be blown to pieces in seconds if he makes a wrong step. And new players make wrong steps. Alot of wrong steps infact. He would learn stuff the hard way, that's for sure. I doubt it will be fun though

Edited by meteorol, 15 February 2014 - 06:00 AM.

[Emnel1]

Well, my mate went with CTF-4X for now and is semi-satisfied rocking 4 AC/5's while having option to use dozen other weapons on it. (the speed tho...)

It's all very enlightening tho - I'll sure keep all that was mentioned here in mind when buying my next Mech (wasn't smartest tool in a shed getting COM-2D and CPLT-4D as my 1st 2 mechs ).

Edited by Emnel, 15 February 2014 - 09:59 AM.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Victor Morson, on 15 February 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

The Mechwarrior newbie helping community: The only game community ever that knowingly recommends bad stuff to newbies asking for advice on GOOD stuff, because they think this somehow builds character.

On a high horse much? I'm not recommending the Hunchback because it's bad, because frankly, it's -not- bad. Do some pilots have trouble in it? Sure. But that's true of any 'mech. I know several people that can't stand driving Victors, just to choose a relevant example. Just because something doesn't fit the most commonly used profile doesn't mean it's bad, just like something being commonly used doesn't mean it's good. I find that Hunchbacks are pretty good 'mechs overall as long as you are willing to learn to take the hunch into account or use the SP, which hasn't got a hunch in the first place- and neither of these is much of a concession.

Victor Morson, on 15 February 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

You learn the game best playing in a good 'mech. Period. Playing with a handicap does not make you a better pilot, it makes you one who didn't learn Mechlab very well, and that's 50% of the game.

You learn the best playing in a variety of 'mechs and with a variety of loadouts. Using a single loadout or even just a single chassis doesn't make you good at the game, it makes you good at that one 'mech (provided you have decent patience and learning curve).

Victor Morson, on 15 February 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

OP: I'm giving you straight answers on what the best stuff in the game is. If you would rather drive subpar stuff on the advice of other folks, feel more than welcome, but I think most folks will agree the suggested chassis and/or builds are top of the line.

Personal attack much? You have a super aggressive attitude, Victor. You're coming off pretty jerky, at least to me, with this constant insistance that I'm recommending something because it's 'bad'. If I thought it was bad, hey, shock moment, I wouldn't recommend it.

Victor Morson, on 15 February 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

Because, clearly, a 'mech that can keep up with heavies, hit like a Highlander, and has hardpoints to try a dozen different builds is not a good fit because... uh.. it's a great 'mech and newbies should buy trash because that'll teach 'em.. uh.. something.. BOOT STRAPS

Thanks for the irrelevant argument drawing conclusions about my reasoning from precisely nothing? Please stop with the invective, insults, and baseless assumptions. It doesn't help anyone.