9 replies to this topic

[Psykikk]

I have some question regarding the targeting mechanics...

First of all I wonder how it comes that a lot of people don´t seem to mind to target enemies (by pressing R) and cycling through them ? Does it take too much attention or time ?

I found myself in a lot of battles when the enemy "suddenly" showed up with 4-6 mechs and I wondered if they have an additional dropship working for them....

second: I wonder how the Lore explains the targeting mechanics per se, because I have been on quiet a few drops were I could easily see (and shoot at) targets over long distances, yet they wouldn´t show up on radar or could not be targeted (no, they didnt use ECM as closer investigation later on showed)

so how come I can "look" further as modern detection technology...

shouldn´t it be possible to really "spot" a target by seeing and reporting it? and I mean not only via comms since PUG´s rarely use any extra comms, but lets say...placing a map marker or something like that....

Edited by Psykikk, 25 February 2014 - 02:07 AM.

[Modo44]

Psykikk, on 25 February 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

First of all I wonder how it comes that a lot of people don´t seem to mind to target enemies (by pressing R) and cycling through them ? Does it take too much attention or time ?

It takes knowledge. Mechs not selected are not visible on your team's minimaps, but it is not made obvious anywhere in the UI.

Psykikk, on 25 February 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

shouldn´t it be possible to really "spot" a target by seeing and reporting it? and I mean not only via comms since PUG´s rarely use any extra comms, but lets say...placing a map marker or something like that....

MWO/BT is not very realistic. For the purposes of a team FPS game, the spotting mechanic is simply a way to 1) make lighter mechs matter more, and 2) introduce a skill-based mechanic. Properly holding targets for LRMs or showing enemy groups to your team takes practice.

[Psykikk]

I understand. I still think that "spotting" the enemy would be much more important and be used more actively if there would be a faster way to relate intel then getting right in the face of the enemy and pressing R.

for example a "spotting module" which lets you mark targets (like the TAG) and relays that target info (only that a target was spotted, not exactly what kind of mech it is) directly on the map.

so having spotters in tactical positions would be really helpful.

[Gasoline]

Psykikk, on 25 February 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

I have some question regarding the targeting mechanics...

First of all I wonder how it comes that a lot of people don´t seem to mind to target enemies (by pressing R) and cycling through them ? Does it take too much attention or time ?

Sometimes during a hectic battle this might be an issue of coordination. Most of the time it's usually those guys who have no need of a hard locked target, they just hammer away with everything they have. Or they're just new to the game. I'm still voting for better tutorials, specifically for targeting and how much that could help.

Psykikk, on 25 February 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

I found myself in a lot of battles when the enemy "suddenly" showed up with 4-6 mechs and I wondered if they have an additional dropship working for them....

Someone on these boards mentioned that he's usually cycling through all targets in sights in that case (hitting R rapidly), to broadcast that there're multiple enemies around. I adapted that and it prevented at least once three teammates not rushing headlong into two full assault lances.

[Psykikk]

yeah thats something i also try to do . it doesnt work as well as I wish though and I totally understand the "hysterical sensation" when walking straight into an assault line and having other things to do then cycling R

I also agree ont he targeting turotial. when I learned how to use it to score "spotting assists" I was so excited..
and thought "if I had known that earlier..."

[Edustaja]

If you want to spot multiple guys there's nothing better than a light mech with a UAV.

[Redshift2k5]

Forget about real-world range finding and targetting. Might as well forget about lore too while you're at it, since the TT & the lore isn't entirely consistent and was never meant to reflect a videogame.

Your base targetting rage is about 800 meters, and many weapons can easily shoot beyond 800m. BAP or Advanced Sensor Range (or both) will increase the base range, and since not everyone has these equipped, you get different players with different targetting range (He may be able to target you when you can't target him back)

ECM is currently the only way to hide from sensors. At longer ranges it blocks all targetting (200m without adv. sensor range module) and at closer range ECM prevents you from passing targetting data to your allies (180M radius around the enemy ECM mech)

Of course, a player may only target one enemy at a time, or may neglect to target any enemy, so if one ally is facing multiple enemies, he may only be relaying one of them, or even none of them, resulting in enemy mechs being "unknown" to your team even though an ally may be able to see them.

Many players will 'ripple' their target button if they see multiple enemies, but then can still only keep a lock on one at a time so pay attention if you see several quick blips because someone is trying to tell you he can see multiple enemies!

As for playing spotter, you can equip advanced sensor range and BAP to give you greatly enhanced target range. This won't help much if the enemy is using ECM, but a TAG (which is an active laserbeam sensor instead of a passive sensor) will allow a solid lock on a single target even through ECM. TAG is much like modern laser-targetting technologies we have today, although still operates at "vidoegame ranges" instead of realistic ranges.

A closer ranges, UAV and NARC are also spotting tools. UAVs are a consumable flying sensor drone and NARC are a missile weapon that fires a single missile with a sensor pod that clamps to a mech. NARC is expecting a buff coming soon, so it's worth looking into.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 25 February 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[William Slayer]

IMO, the best way to resolve this would be a Team Chat channel system that connects ALL players who drop together in a match...

I can't stop to type Assault Lance! while running for my life, but I'd be happy to shriek it into a microphone for my teammates! :-)

[Koniving]

Psykikk, on 25 February 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

1) First of all I wonder how it comes that a lot of people don´t seem to mind to target enemies (by pressing R) and cycling through them ? Does it take too much attention or time ?

2) I wonder how the Lore explains the targeting mechanics per se, because I have been on quiet a few drops were I could easily see (and shoot at) targets over long distances, yet they wouldn´t show up on radar or could not be targeted (no, they didnt use ECM as closer investigation later on showed)

3) so how come I can "look" further as modern detection technology...

4) shouldn´t it be possible to really "spot" a target by seeing and reporting it? and I mean not only via comms since PUG´s rarely use any extra comms, but lets say...placing a map marker or something like that....

1) Targeting an enemy simply requires pressing R. Most players target 1 enemy -- the one they are about to attack -- and that is it. Occasionally you'll get the targeting distress signal. It is not difficult, but some players seem to fail to do so when they fight.

2) Lore is a complicated thing. The manuals say one thing, the books say another, the rulebook says yet another... The long and short of it is this: All mechs generally have a forward facing radar system.

Truth be told, "Battletech" can best be described by the Firefly series. Close to the planets where each "House" or Monarchy can be found, the technology is really good; everything is prestine and new. But on the front lines, or even 5 systems away from these lavish places... the mechs are 20 to 100 years old. Many of them on the front lines have been destroyed at least a dozen times and put together again with salvage. Factories may be making new ones frequently, but they get sent to the officers. Not the front line.

The shortest distance on the map is from Marik's center world to Liao Territory's border is roughly 5 years of what's essentially Star Wars "Light Speed."

Five years for the shortest route I could find which is almost a straight line.

Now picture the supply chain. These mechs are falling apart. Bad shape. Expensive repairs. Most mechs barely had all their body parts on the front line. Permanent scars, bodies that can't be repaired.

Add to this roughly 300 years of constant, random, "brushfire" wars after the universe's best men and equipment (the entire Star League Defense Force) said "Screw you guys, we're out of here."

What's left of the "good" technology is horded by "Comstar." An unplayable faction. Much of what Comstar has can rival the "superior" Clan tech. The best of the best. And if you have good technology, they will take it from you.

3) Modern technology is satellite assisted. Can you send satellites to thousands of worlds without them being shot down when this happens to dropships? A lot of men and mechs were destroyed in those few seconds. Of the eight lances, only four launched, only two survived.

They have recon probes, yes.

Currently in MWO, we have the best the Star League ever had to offer, essentially 2500 to 2700 A.D.'s tech. DHS for everyone. Top of the line gear. Super weapons. The works. It's supposed to be a lot worse.

4) As for teams that communicate. It's nice. But if no one says anything, no one will say anything. Break the silence. Say something.

Truth be told.. The technology of Battletech still uses FAXes as a secure means of communication. Most mechs didn't need a real radar system. They are supposed to be supported by tanks, infantry, battle armor, and from the air.

[SnagaDance]

Some of the older BattleTech novels try to go a bit deeper into explaining how these things work as well (and are sometimes contradicted by later publications, like cockpit views first just being video screens connected to lots of sensors on the outside but later on changing to 'transpex' armoured windows because it's way cooler to actually be able to see other pilots sitting in their mechs and such).

One of the things they speak of is the ridiculous (compared to our own current technology) weapon and sensor ranges. They're explained as being a result of really advanced sensor and jamming technology that is actually so incredibly effective that effective ranges have become really short.
Like imagine if Sidewinder missiles could only get and keep a lock on an enemy fighter if you were within 1000m with your own fighter (instead of the 'completely beyond visual range' they are).

And the designers have also said that shooting at each other beyond visual range doesn't really make for an exiting game. Ask actual fighter pilots, there's not much action going on in acquiring target locks and firing off missiles to some target your computer says is out there and paints on your hud, the thrill is that the other person is probably doing the same to you and you might lose your life, which is a threat not present in a game.

And yes, that means Topgun lied. But you may still scream "Highway to the danger zone" whenever you charge your mech into battle.