23 replies to this topic

[SoupForMonday1]

What is a good build for the Black-jack 1DC

[Stormwolf]

I think that you are looking for this part of the forums:
http://mwomercs.com/...tlemech-guides/

[Egomane]

moving

[Tiger Shark]

Take a look at the simple to play mediums thread. Quite a few good Blackjack builds in there.
Currently going with a 3LL build with 235XL and 17DHS.
The UAC5 + 6ML is a good build as well.

[Spheroid]

( A ) 2x AC-5 + 4x slas + ams + endo + 180 STD

( B ) AC-10 + 4x mlas + ams + endo + 12 DHS + 180 STD

Edited by Spheroid, 12 January 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Ruccus]

Here's the Blackjack builds thread. I think pretty much any BJ-1 build but with heatsinks and/or armour replacing any jump jets will also work.

One thing to note though is since the thread was started the Gauss Rifle was changed to add a charge-up, lowering its DPS significantly, so those builds might not be for you if you're unfamiliar with the Gauss Rifle change.

I recently broke out my old Gauss build and racked up a 4 kill, 6 assist, 681 damage match so it's still competent, just not as versatile as it once was.

[MountainCopper]

http://mwomercs.com/...some-blackjack/

[Edwyndham]

I don't really see much use in the BJ-1DC. You gain a couple energy hardpoints but lose the ability to put jumpjets and, more importantly, lose a significant amount of torso rotation (1DC is something like 80 degrees compared to BJ-1's 110 degrees); and engine size remains the same.

You can run it IMO in one of 4 ways:
2x AC2 with plenty of ammo and 2-4 medium lasers
The AC5 build looks okay as suggested above
Blackjack-Wang AC20 + 3 ML
2x PPC 2x MG + lasers.

And since you're not getting jumpjets in it you may as well cram the AMS in there as well, doesn't hurt.

But again, the BJ-1 can do all of these, but do them better.

Edited by zwanglos, 21 February 2014 - 07:21 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

the build called: don't buy a BJ-1DC.

don't get me wrong, I love my BJs but I would NEVER trade JJs for 2 energy hardpoints, much less the fact its torso twist is 90 vs 110 in the BJ-1.

Every BJ variant offers something good. EXCEPT the 1DC.
BJ-1: Ballistics and JJs
BJ-1X: XL295!!
BJ-3: Energy boat and JJs

[Clydewinder]

The best build I could come up with for the BJ-1DC that the others couldn't do was 2 PPC, 2 MG, 4 SL, 225 XL engine. I can hold my own in it and have a positive W/L and K/D ratio for it. Still like the BJ-1 and the BJ-3 better tho.

[TercieI]

Sadly, as others have noted, the BJ-1DC is one of the few truly extraneous variants. It offers no real options that other variants don't do better (read: with jump jets), has limitations comparable variants don't (torso twist) and it's one of four c-bill variants, so you don't even need it to level the others.

It also was one of the first mechs I bought. Doh!

[Tiamat of the Sea]

I give you one of the pinnacles of my insanity: Mr. Gigglepoof the Death Hug Blackjack!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cb1d165ee7e60ee

The sheer audacity of this thing and long run time before overheat mean that you can take it into matches, chestbump with an Atlas or Highlander (or circle it at extreme close range), and murder it with constant fire from all weapons. Lack of an XL engine typical of Blackjacks cuts expense of outfitting it and does a massive boon to the durability (as the Blackjack has gimundous rear side torsos and fairly big front side torsos). Topnotch speed for a BJ makes up to some degree for lack of jump jets as well.

Frankly it's hard to take any Blackjack without jumpjets seriously, as you pretty much never gain anything by the lack of that option- the addition of two energy hard points does nothing by comparison, particularly as they're low side-torso mounts. At least by making Mr. Gigglepoof you can have some crazy fun and make people think twice about the lowly BJ before deciding what to do about it.

My first match in this thing (without even Basic skills) I managed to hug to death an Atlas -and- a Highlander on Tourmaline Desert.



....not to say I didn't sell the chassis once I finished out the skills on my Blackjacks, because I did.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 22 February 2014 - 05:39 AM.

[BP Raven]

Elli Gujar, on 22 February 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

I give you one of the pinnacles of my insanity: Mr. Gigglepoof the Death Hug Blackjack!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cb1d165ee7e60ee

Fiddled with that a little ... 2 CASE with no ammo in the torsos seems like wasted tonnage to me, save it and fit an AMS. Also put all the small lasers in the same place, since i assume they're in one fire group together you'll get better convergeance, plus the mediums in the arms will be better for shooting up/down slopes.

BJ-1DC

For the poor/cheap mechwarrior, levelling the 3 small engined blackjacks makes sense, since they can share the XL 235 engine, without having the worry of putting 4.8 million cbills into a 295 for the -1X. I found that a PPC sniper build worked rather well in the BJ-3 (will also work on the -1). The standard boom jack with the AC20 is solid, but really needs the jump jet for agility's sake, so the -1DC doesn't pull the build of nearly as well.

In the end i think i went with a loadout of 6ML and 1 UAC5, although the jamming got pretty annoying, but my stats for the build were more than favourable.

BJ-1DC

Can't remember if that was the exact loadout i ran, or if it had one less DHS for more ammo, but you get the gist.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Having the ammo in the arms doesn't make CASE meaningless- regardless where the ammo explosion is (between arm, leg, and side torso), CASE prevents it from reaching the center torso, which is the relevant point. Without, a large enough ammo explosion (i.e. virtually any ammo explosion) in a leg or arm still obliterates the entire 'mech, which is what makes leg-ammo Jaegers so thoroughly vulnerable. I would not consider that wasted space by any measure.

[Inflatable Fish]

Elli Gujar, on 23 February 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

Having the ammo in the arms doesn't make CASE meaningless- regardless where the ammo explosion is (between arm, leg, and side torso), CASE prevents it from reaching the center torso, which is the relevant point. Without, a large enough ammo explosion (i.e. virtually any ammo explosion) in a leg or arm still obliterates the entire 'mech, which is what makes leg-ammo Jaegers so thoroughly vulnerable. I would not consider that wasted space by any measure.

wrong. CASE *contains* ammo explosions that happen *in the segment it's installed in*, period. please don't spread misinformation.

[MountainCopper]

Elli Gujar, on 23 February 2014 - 03:11 PM, said:

Having the ammo in the arms doesn't make CASE meaningless- regardless where the ammo explosion is (between arm, leg, and side torso), CASE prevents it from reaching the center torso, which is the relevant point. Without, a large enough ammo explosion (i.e. virtually any ammo explosion) in a leg or arm still obliterates the entire 'mech, which is what makes leg-ammo Jaegers so thoroughly vulnerable. I would not consider that wasted space by any measure.

Inflatable Fish, on 23 February 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

wrong. CASE *contains* ammo explosions that happen *in the segment it's installed in*, period. please don't spread misinformation.

I too think, that CASE protects the CT from additional damage from ammo explosions in arms or legs. My understanding was, that CASE "surrounds" a side torso.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

I have had ammunition explosions -in game- that were in my arms with that very Blackjack I posted where the CASE prevented a total machine death. The only ammunition in that 'mech is in its arms, meaning it is impossible that I suffered a side torso ammo explosion.

Similarly, my CN9-A which has ammunition in the right arm has lost its right torso to an ammo explosion before, without dying from it. The only other location in the 'mech with ammo is the left torso, which cannot transfer damage to the right torso without a bug.

In both 'mechs, the CASE prevented the ammo explosion from reaching the center torso, despite that it did not occur in the side torso.

Edited by Elli Gujar, 24 February 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Inflatable Fish]

that's because ammo explosions only reach the adjacent component, as you yourself observed. arm goes to side torso, side torso goes to CT. there's no way without a bug that an ammo explosion in the arm reaches the CT, unless by some magical means you have your arm intact while your side torso is busted, then I reckon it'd observe the damage transfer rule (speculating here.)

in short, not dying from an arm ammo explosion had nothing at all to do with CASE.

GoldenFleece, on 24 February 2014 - 01:43 AM, said:

I too think, that CASE protects the CT from additional damage from ammo explosions in arms or legs. My understanding was, that CASE "surrounds" a side torso.

after sarna.net:

Quote

CASE is essentially a specialized container structure for housing the equipment, and redirects explosive force in the event that the equipment explodes. While this makes it invaluable for preventing excessive internal damage, CASE does not actually stop the explosion, it merely contains and redirects the explosive force, so after an explosion units likely will be crippled or nonfunctional, though not destroyed outright.
(...)
CASE mounted on an Inner Sphere 'Mech can only be placed in a torso section, and only protects that torso section.

as you can't put CASE in the legs, you'd better have a damn good reason for storing ammo there, as if it explodes, there's nothing stopping the explosion from reaching the engine.

Edited by Inflatable Fish, 24 February 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[kesuga7]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0c72317beaa5c6c

6 small , 10 doubles , 2 ac 5 , 89 kph
for full leg armor you would need a XL 210



here is the laser focused build with more armor and heatsinks
BJ-1DC - 2 large - 2 mids - 2 small pulse - 2 machine guns - ams

Edited by kesuga7, 24 February 2014 - 11:39 PM.

[MountainCopper]

Inflatable Fish, on 24 February 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

that's because ammo explosions only reach the adjacent component, as you yourself observed. arm goes to side torso, side torso goes to CT. there's no way without a bug that an ammo explosion in the arm reaches the CT, unless by some magical means you have your arm intact while your side torso is busted, then I reckon it'd observe the damage transfer rule (speculating here.)

in short, not dying from an arm ammo explosion had nothing at all to do with CASE.

as you can't put CASE in the legs, you'd better have a damn good reason for storing ammo there, as if it explodes, there's nothing stopping the explosion from reaching the engine.

I don't mean the way CASE is explained on sarna or the original table top rules. I wonder about the rules in MWO. And with the way that remaining explosion damage will be halved and then applied to the next adjacent component and with (possible) multiple damage jumps, I have to guess from my observations, how they made CASE work.
Could be either way. If someone could link to a previous thread, great.


EDIT:
Bits and pieces, I found

"(A suggested change to the current) CASE wouldn't help with an explosion in the arm..."

"...Center Torso is absolutely safe to ammo explosions that happen OUTSIDE of it."


Reading about some older things that were in MWO, I am sad, that so many changes the developers did, made the game less complex and more boring:
-Repair costs
-Ammo costs
-CASE + XL not being useless
-CASE + STD engine + explosion will leave the adjacent arm intact
-You will only die, if 3+ critical engine slots are destroyed => so it could be changed to a way, that, for instance, with CASE + XL engine, the side torso engine slots only counts as 2 critical slots
...........................

Edited by GoldenFleece, 25 February 2014 - 12:43 AM.