20 replies to this topic

[ImperialKnight]

If there's only one guy left on the enemy team and in the following scenarios

1) He's shutdown for more than 30 seconds
2) Not moving for more than 30 seconds
3) Has not fire upon an enemy target in the last 1.5 minutes (if he's fighting a guerilla war, he should have at least shot someone in 1.5 min)

I propose a giant laser canon firing upon him doing 9999 damage.

(If he wants his k/d, he needs to at least work for it)

Edited by knightsljx, 21 February 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Even with your biased poll options I still picked "no" since skirmish is exactly what people asked for, and if they don't want to deal with it then they shouldn't have spammed the forums until it was implemented. It was obvious what the result would be, and it was explained by many people many times, yet the cries for skirmish mode only grew louder.

Now that skirmish is live, you can't go a week on these forums without seeing some kind of new thread complaining about that lone enemy survivor who's hard to find and is using the rules of the mode (the very same rules that were warned about, the very same rules that bases in Assault were designed to fix).

If you don't have the patience to go hunting, then play another mode.

Alternative post:

I have an idea. Why don't we add an objective to skirmish mode. Something to force the end of a match if you can't find the last enemy. Maybe make it a box, that if you stand in it long enough ends the game. We can call the box a base, and award a Capture Assist for helping to end a game by capturing it. To add flavor and improve gameplay, why not place some kind of structure or vehicle in the middle of the box.

Oh, wait, that's Assault mode, which was designed expressly to deal with the problems inherent to skirmish-style team death match.

[ImperialKnight]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 21 February 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

Even with your biased poll options I still picked "no" since skirmish is exactly what people asked for, and if they don't want to deal with it then they shouldn't have spammed the forums until it was implemented. It was obvious what the result would be, and it was explained by many people many times, yet the cries for skirmish mode only grew louder.

Now that skirmish is live, you can't go a week on these forums without seeing some kind of new thread complaining about that lone enemy survivor who's hard to find and is using the rules of the mode (the very same rules that were warned about, the very same rules that bases in Assault were designed to fix).

If you don't have the patience to go hunting, then play another mode.

Alternative post:

I have an idea. Why don't we add an objective to skirmish mode. Something to force the end of a match if you can't find the last enemy. Maybe make it a box, that if you stand in it long enough ends the game. We can call the box a base, and award a Capture Assist for helping to end a game by capturing it. To add flavor and improve gameplay, why not place some kind of structure or vehicle in the middle of the box.

Oh, wait, that's Assault mode, which was designed expressly to deal with the problems inherent to skirmish-style team death match.

I've added an option that address the issue of the "player" is "using the rules of the mode"

In the Code of Conduct, this is listed as a Non-participation offence. He should be actively trying to destroy the enemy team even if he is 1v12.
Guerilla tactics are valid, meaning one is actively moving seeking out stray mechs to pick off, or going on wide flank to hit the enemy rear or generally still "participating" in the act of "destroying the enemy team"

A person shut down in the middle of nowhere is no longer participating in the "core mechanics" of the game and should receive some form of punishment or disincentive.

So, no, that player is NOT "using the rules" but actually committing an offence against the Code of Conduct

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

knightsljx, on 21 February 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

I've added an option that address the issue of the "player" is "using the rules of the mode"

In the Code of Conduct, this is listed as a Non-participation offence. He should be actively trying to destroy the enemy team even if he is 1v12.
Guerilla tactics are valid, meaning one is actively moving seeking out stray mechs to pick off, or going on wide flank to hit the enemy rear or generally still "participating" in the act of "destroying the enemy team"

A person shut down in the middle of nowhere is no longer participating in the "core mechanics" of the game and should receive some form of punishment or disincentive.

So, no, that player is NOT "using the rules" but actually committing an offence against the Code of Conduct

If he's made a good-faith effort to harm the enemy team and then breaks contact and evades in order to stay alive, then he's well within the Code of Conduct.

If you see someone with 0 damage doing this, then by all means report him afterward. But if he's actively engaged at any point in the match, he's in the clear according to the rules.

[Craig Steele]

knightsljx, on 21 February 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

If there's only one guy left on the enemy team and in the following scenarios

1) He's shutdown for more than 30 seconds
2) Not moving for more than 30 seconds
3) Has not fire upon an enemy target in the last 1.5 minutes (if he's fighting a guerilla war, he should have at least shot someone in 1.5 min)

I propose a giant laser canon firing upon him doing 9999 damage.

(If he wants his k/d, he needs to at least work for it)

Don't play Skirmish.

"Everyone" asked for this game format, and shutting down and ambushing a mech is just as legitimate a tactic at 30 seconds in as it is at 8 minutes and 11 - 0.

If it bugs you, install BAP, or play another game mode.

[Craig Steele]

knightsljx, on 21 February 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

I've added an option that address the issue of the "player" is "using the rules of the mode"

In the Code of Conduct, this is listed as a Non-participation offence. He should be actively trying to destroy the enemy team even if he is 1v12.
Guerilla tactics are valid, meaning one is actively moving seeking out stray mechs to pick off, or going on wide flank to hit the enemy rear or generally still "participating" in the act of "destroying the enemy team"

A person shut down in the middle of nowhere is no longer participating in the "core mechanics" of the game and should receive some form of punishment or disincentive.

So, no, that player is NOT "using the rules" but actually committing an offence against the Code of Conduct

No its not an offence, unless he has not moved from the spawn at all.

The thing your asking for is mechs to fight on your terms which is unfair.

If a light mech wants to hit and run, draw off a straggler and kill them within the game time, more power to him. He should not be forced to combat 6 mechs because of some arbitary 30 second rule when a kill count clicks over. If he wants to shut down in the tunnel and wait for a rear shot, he is entitled to.

Edited by Craig Steele, 21 February 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[Morang]

Yes. It can take time to find a stray enemy mech and arrange an attack run. Once I was last standing in Locust. I solo killed almost intact lone Stalker and I legged a Victor with already cored leg, though was unable to finish it because enemy team managed to arrive in time. Of course it was not because I ran to last known position of the enemy main force to go down focused by handful of assaults. I circled volcanos closer to periphery of the map, moving in to kill when I see opportunity. Between those two encounters some time passed as well, as I'm unable to locate the enemy instantly too and once I was forced to retreat after trading shots with outnumbering force (I suggest that's when enemy lights tracked me and managed to save that Victor). I do participate, I'm looking for kills, but I use my mech's abilities and try to engage on my terms. Demanding me to just go and play clay pigeon is ridiculous. Do you remember the time of grind by suicide in trial light mechs? That's what you're asking for. People just charged in the midst of enemy team to die quickly and enter next match, trying to tag as many as they can for possible assist bonuses. And they argued that they do participate in combat, they do engage enemy and they play as intended.

I think that time limit for skirmish can be reduced though to 12 or maybe even 10 minutes (study needed, as map size varies greatly).

Edited by Morang, 21 February 2014 - 11:11 PM.

[Odanan]

At least make disconnected players to count as dead.

[Firewuff]

This is one or the stupidest ideas ever. Itia so easy to exploit its not funny.

Team a has two mostly cored lights. Team b has a completely fresh heavy. Team b loses because the lights run off and stay out of sight.

This is highly exploitable and does nothing to stop the situation.

If toy don't like it don't play skirmish. This was why assuly had base cap... Peoopke whinged about it now they don't like it... Deal

[Craig Steele]

Firewuff, on 24 February 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

This is one or the stupidest ideas ever. Itia so easy to exploit its not funny.

Team a has two mostly cored lights. Team b has a completely fresh heavy. Team b loses because the lights run off and stay out of sight.

This is highly exploitable and does nothing to stop the situation.

If toy don't like it don't play skirmish. This was why assuly had base cap... Peoopke whinged about it now they don't like it... Deal

Yup, the correct answer is to choose another game mode if you don't want to play for 15 minutes. Assault and conquest both have capping options.

That 2 v 1 theory you mentioned is possible, but then again if they were able to disengage / better defensive maneuvering that resulted in them surviving then they should be entitled to win. It's not a full on death match in the sense there is still a timer.

But I don't agree its an exploit, I think if team B didn't finished the job when they had the chance then they lose.

[Mechteric]

I think the only problem is what if each team only has 1 mech remaining and they hunt for each other but keep not finding each other, either due to being slow, or circling around the map the same direction, never catching up to each other.

There would have to be a stipulation that one team has only 1 mech remaining, while the other team has at minimum 4 or something. They could make it end and call it a "Dominating Victory" or something.

[Osric Lancaster]

I rarely see skirmish go to bug-hunt mode, and it really doesn't much bother me much. That said. . .

CapperDeluxe, on 24 February 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

There would have to be a stipulation that one team has only 1 mech remaining, while the other team has at minimum 4 or something. They could make it end and call it a "Dominating Victory" or something.

I really like the idea of a 'morale counter' for a match, and not just for skirmish but for all game modes. Something that speeds the game clock up when there's a large disparity in the remaining forces for each respective side. So when it's 12 - 12 or 10 - 10 the game clock moves at normal speed. When it's 10 - 2 the clock accelerates by a factor of five (10/2). So if you crushed the other side 10-2 in the first five minutes of the game, you only have to play 'hunt the spider' or 'waddle to cap' for (at most) two minutes. That gives the 'Mechs on both sides a fair chance without dragging the match out.

Edited by Osric Lancaster, 26 February 2014 - 11:49 PM.

[That Dawg]

I'm more concerned with all the dam disconnects, then having to chase around finding them so we can all get our mechs back.

buggy game is [^_still] buggy

[wanderer]

As I've patiently sat in a K2 in shutdown mode for minutes at a time waiting for a target to cross my LOS so I can power up and backshot him to death in a single twin Gauss shot...nope.

Disconnects should get "killed" by the server,however- and award assists to anyone who damaged it as a proportional reward.

[Roland]

I think I've only seen a guy try to hide ONCE in a skirmish game at the end.

It's really not a common occurence.

It's far more common that you have some light mech hiding at the end of a conquest match.

[Zerberus]

Oh , wow, how refreshing, another thread by a skirmish player complaining about all of the exact things we warned them about when they were throwing temper tantrunmns and screaming until they got the mode.

You guys demanded this bed in no uncertain terms, now lie in it until until you realize that it`s entirely your own fault. As opposed to universally attemptiung to shift the blame to other players instead of the hurr-durr-assault-mech--smash rule-set you specifically demanded.

You duncecaps spent 2 years trying to break the game for everoyne else, screamed until you were blue that you needed skirmish, absolutely refused to listen to rhyme or reason (you actually got louder and attempted to drown it out), and were then presented with your custom designed "ideal", "perfect", "tactically deep" gamemode.

Now stfu and eat what you ordered instead of complaining about what other people are eating.

Edited by Zerberus, 27 February 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[Roland]

Zerberus, on 27 February 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

Oh , wow, how refreshing, another thread by a skirmish player complaining about all of the exact things we warned them about when they were throwing temper tantrunmns and screaming until they got the mode.

You guys demanded this bed in no uncertain terms, now lie in it until until you realize that it`s entirely your own fault. As opposed to universally attemptiung to shift the blame to other players instead of the hurr-durr-assault-mech--smash rule-set you specifically demanded.

You duncecaps spent 2 years trying to break the game for everoyne else, screamed until you were blue that you needed skirmish, absolutely refused to listen to rhyme or reason (you actually got louder and attempted to drown it out), and were then presented with your custom designed "ideal", "perfect", "tactically deep" gamemode.

Now stfu and eat what you ordered instead of complaining about what other people are eating.

Don't be mad just because you are bad at killing mechs.

[Supersmacky]

So, I am in a match, have no weapons/ammo left, it is 11-11 and the other guy can still kill me so I should just go get killed rather than trying to get a tie???

Or in another case, it is 9-11 and my mech is designed for sniping and the enemies appear to be more designed for close range brawlers so keep the range open and maneuvering quickly form on location to another works to my benefit which might mean I need to go for long periods of time without firing. But the heck with that, I should just go in close and get killed???

Or another case, it is 7-11 and I am a lone Cicada in good shape and the remaining 5 enemy are beat up, but still armed enough to kill me. So I play hit-run-evade-ambush, however, it is taking time to hunt the all down and NOT get killed at the same time. I should just rush into the middle of them and get killed so it doesn't waste everyone's precious time?

Or, final case: it is 11-11. The enemy mech is in good shape and so am I, but he out masses and out guns me terribly (he is in an Atlas and I am in a Locust, let's say). I have to get in close to damage him, but he can start hitting me long before I get to him. I have a great place to hide and power down to win a tie, but instead I should just charge in hoping he won't crush me before I get to peel off enough armor and do enough internals to end him???

I call B.S.

I saw all of these scenarios played out in the passed couple of days. Yes, sometimes it is just plain stupidness that happens. But everyone joins the match know there is a 15 minute time frame. That means I get to use as much as that time as I want in the way I want and so do you (or anyone else).

If you don't want Skirmish, then don't play Skirmish.

[Roland]

Quote

So, I am in a match, have no weapons/ammo left, it is 11-11 and the other guy can still kill me so I should just go get killed rather than trying to get a tie???

Well, technically, you get paid less for a tie, so it's actually beneficial for you to just go die in that case.

It's better to lose than to tie, based on the rewards in the game.

[Shlkt]

Replace skirmish with king-of-the-hill. Everybody wins.

Put a single Conquest-style resource extractor near the center of the map. Control the point for 7 minutes, cumulative, to end the match.