33 replies to this topic

[Veteran46]

Howdy everyone. I am still very much a noob at MWO, I have tried various light mechs, because I cant really afford a decent medium or above. I was wanting a critique on my current build(Critique not an ******* remark trashing me and my shitty mech). I am saving up for DHS but right now I dont have them.

Spider-5D

Speed 129,6 KPH
Structure-Endo Steel
Heatsink-Single
Armor- Ferro Fibrous
Heat Management .83/2
Armor 197/210
Head-18
Standard Heat Sink
Center Torso F 18 R 18
Flamer
Engine 240
Right Torso F 15 R 10
Jump Jet Class V
Left Torso F 15 R 13
Jump Jet Class V
Guardian ECM
RIght Arm 20
Medium Laser x2
Left Leg 25
Right Leg 25

Modules
Cool Shot 9
Artillery Strike.

All basic skills learned except Anchor Turn
Medium Laser Range 1/2

It does fine as a distraction mech to allow the big guys to bring them down, and I get alot of assists and spotting bonuses.

[Gas Guzzler]

I don't have experience with the Spider specifically, but I would definitely get those DHS (they will change your life), get an XL engine if you don't already have one (lots of C-Bills unfortunately but really make light mechs so much better, and you can share it with other mechs too if you want to spend time in between matches swapping engines), and swap the flamer for another ML, or ER LL when you have the XL engine.

I tend to see alot of spiders with an ER LL and 2 MLs, but I can't remember what variant that is on. Looks like you could do it with this one.

[Veteran46]

Yeah I can, I have 3 energy hard points. I only have the flamer because it is an effective blinding tool to allow my allies to hit them without him firing back. But I am working towards DHS and an XL Engine. Thatll take about 3.5 mil C bills or so if I am correct.

Edited by Veteran46, 28 February 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

You'll want to get that speed up (129.6 kph is slow for a Spider), so when you buy the XL engine, make sure it's a 255.

Another thing I would advise is that if you are going to strip armor from somewhere, make sure it doesn't come from the legs. For maximum lifespan in a Spider you will want maximum armor overall -- but especially leg armor. All of mine have 208 out of 210 armor.

[Veteran46]

Durant Carlyle, on 28 February 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

You'll want to get that speed up (129.6 kph is slow for a Spider), so when you buy the XL engine, make sure it's a 255.

Another thing I would advise is that if you are going to strip armor from somewhere, make sure it doesn't come from the legs. For maximum lifespan in a Spider you will want maximum armor overall -- but especially leg armor. All of mine have 208 out of 210 armor.

My legs are full armor capactiy I believe, if they arent they may be 5 points off. And it seems I would rather want to focus on my XL engine first rather than the DHS. But how is the build overall? I mean I am new but is it decent for a nub mech?

[1453 R]

Smurfy's MechLab - Your New Best Friend.

Assuming your 'mech looks something like this?

It's...not great. But that's as much a matter of your not having had the time to buy all the upgrades you need for it yet as it is anything else. With a 255XL and DHS, you'll instantly be worlds better. In the meantime, a few recommendations:

1.) your armor distribution is somewhat questionable. Your front will always be facing the enemy more than your rear will, even in something as insanely, aggravating prone to bolting as a Spider. Normally, I stick very strictly to a 3/1 ratio for front/rear armor - in this case 30/10 for center torso and 21/7 for left/right torsos. On a Spider, I could see going 2/1 or near to it since they do take more back shots, and newer pilots also have issues protecting their back sometimes - trust me, I started as a Dragon pilot, I know how it goes - but an even, 1-to-1 split is almost never really optimal. Also: always max out the armor on your legs in a light 'Mech. It's the first thing everybody tries to shoot off you, and the one thing you can't torso-twist to protect. I will, dead serious, take armor off my center torso in a light 'Mech before I take it off my legs.

2.) People will say that you only need one jump jet to get "all the bonus you need" from them. This may - may be true for heavy and assault 'Mechs, but is not even remotely the case for Spiders. The Spider's unrivaled agility, both on the ground and in the air (and the horrible things it does to hit registration) is the Spider's calling card, and cutting down your jets cuts down on both the height and reach of your jumps. I would go with no less than four jets, and would honestly prefer six. There are some obstacles you just can't clear, some walls you can't jump up past, without a full-sized compliment of jump jets.

3.) Consider pulse lasers, when you upgrade to an XL engine. They deal a bit more damage than standard lasers, and deal it over a shorter period so it's easier to get more damage where you want it. They do generate more heat, weigh more, and have somewhat shorter range, but if you're using a flamer instead of a large laser in the center torso you've got the weight and heat to spare, and the flamer requires you to be in knife range anyways. The pulse lasers might well do better for you than standard beams will.

Perhaps something like this: SDR-5D, Hidden Blade Edition. ALL da jump jets, or at least very near, with an upgraded version of your initial armament, much more speed, and a more generally helpful armor distribution. Give it a look, see what you think.

[Unnatural Growth]

It can be hard to afford all the upgrades you need to properly fit out a mech right off the bat. Lights especially, can end up being very expensive mechs by the time you add XL engine, DHS, Endo Steel structure and Ferro armor.

So it looks like you're making due as best you can, with more upgrades coming as the C-bills come in.

I would also advise on the biggest XL you can cram in it, which happens to be the XL255. It is very expensive, at over 4 mil C-bills just for that engine. A fortune when you're starting out. But it's worth it. Speed is life in a light mech. The weight savings on the XL will help, you can add more jump jets, for example. The DHS come in handy with heat management, and you won't need the cool shot module.

My personal -5D runs the XL255, DHS's, 1 ERLL, 2 ML's, ECM suite, 8 jump jets, Endo Steel stucture and standard armor. I run it as a scout/harasser. Don't forget to toggle your ECM between modes when you want to "jam" an enemy's ECM so your missile boats can target them. It also helps your team to provide "ECM escort" to your formation as they approach their desired position, you can "cloak" them so the enemy doesn't know where your team is.

[Veteran46]

I like that hidden blade. it looks sweet, although the XL is pretty far out of my reach at the moment. I can save up for it and from what it looks like its the next best thing to upgrade. But yeah with what I could afford I think i did good, but I can arrange the armor around. Just wanted to see what veterans of MWO had to say. Until I get the XL255 to free up the weight, and the DHS(I can almost afford them now) ANy recommendations to make it a bit better for harassment?

I could also fit 2 Small Pulse Lasers instead of my Mediums atm.

Edited by Veteran46, 28 February 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[PieRat]

1 ER large, and 2 Meds is the usual for that build. sometimes I will run it with 3 Medium Pulse lasers as well. I think on my 5D build I only use 2 jets. When I do run 3 medium pulse I will also go into settings and lock the arms. I am pretty much alpha striking with that build, and with the arm locks it pretty much keeps all 3 lasers hitting the same hitbox of the mech being fired upon. you can also make a sniper build with the 5D since it has the ECM with an ER PPC. You pretty much would have that as an only weapon though. So distance and the ECM is your friend. If you go that route or ever want to toy with it a good module to work on is extended sensor range. Also go ER PPC instead of just PPC as not only does it have longer range, but there is no minimum range of damage compared to a regular PPC as well. so if you have to fire it up close it will do damage where the regular PPC will not. Just my 2 MC's. Also think about grabbing the champion Spider right now as it is on sale if you have the MC's. Gives you another variant to play which will help you unlock more skills. Also it is a pretty effective light on its own with the 4 machine guns. Also being champion it will help a bit in getting those C-Bills saved up. Grrrrr!!! why can I not do paragraphs??? Looks like a wall of text here. I like your statement sig there Mailin.

Edited by PieRat, 28 February 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[mailin]

If you need to shave armor, the first place to take it from is the head. I have 197 on my Spider 5D, and I think I took most of those from the head. Also, in addition to maxxing out your leg armor, you also want to keep your right arm maxxed (it's the one with two energy hard points afterall) but you can shave a little bit off the left arm. It's just a shield, but it keeps your side torsi safe and cuddly. When you do get the XL and DHS, think about running 3 mplas in it. Set up two weapon groups, one for the torso the other for the arm. I enjoy this loadout much more than the sniper builds with LL or an ER PPC, but ymmv. Have fun.

[Spleenslitta]

Gas Guzzler, on 28 February 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

I don't have experience with the Spider specifically, but I would definitely get those DHS (they will change your life), get an XL engine if you don't already have one (lots of C-Bills unfortunately but really make light mechs so much better, and you can share it with other mechs too if you want to spend time in between matches swapping engines), and swap the flamer for another ML, or ER LL when you have the XL engine.

I tend to see alot of spiders with an ER LL and 2 MLs, but I can't remember what variant that is on. Looks like you could do it with this one.

This guy is showing you a good path. If you do get an ER Large Laser remember to be erratic in where you pop out to snipe.
Never show up at the same spot twice in a row.
Preferably only shoot once and even if you miss move to the next piece of cover. Don't just pick the nearest sniping position. That's predictable.

The most important lesson i've learned about using light mechs for skirmishing is "if you know what you are going to do in the next 5 seconds you're doing it wrong."
Be unpredictable and erratic in your moves.

Avoid attracting the attention of fast mechs. That will sooner or later make it rain LRM's on your head.
Heading out alone is rarelly a good idea.

It can be effective once you have learned how to be unpredictable in the extreme when it comes to choosing your sniping positions.
But it is most certainly not something that gives you lots of kills. You sow confusion aplenty sure but kills are few and far between.
The risks are humoungous.

It takes a long time to get used to being a lone skirmishing sniper and it has a cost...You will get killed a lot in practicing your tactics. I used to have a KDR of less than 0.20. That's reaaaaly bad.
I'm slowly getting better KDR but it will take time to get a 1.0.

Here is a piece of advice if you want to do the lone skirmishing sniper thingie. Let the battle start for real so the enemy is well into the opening hostilities and then head out to the far flank and snipe from there.
Make certain you got a speed of at least 125 kph in order to escape when things get hot. Jump Jets are a must. Learn how to do a backwards jump to get quicker into cover after shooting or to perform feints.
Jump jet turns are also essential to move quickly. Learn to zigzag in order to avoid fire coming from both the front and back.

Is my advice good?......it's risky insanity is what it is.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 28 February 2014 - 06:00 PM.

[Veteran46]

Well I like lights because I like speed, The sniping aspect appeals to me, its just racking the C bills for the less heavy engine and DHS to shave off the extra tons.

[Spleenslitta]

Veteran46, on 28 February 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

Well I like lights because I like speed, The sniping aspect appeals to me, its just racking the C bills for the less heavy engine and DHS to shave off the extra tons.

Seems this insanity of mine in contagious.....

Go to the training grounds and practice making jump jet turns if you don't know how already. Moving with not only speed but also precision is key to survival for us light mech pilots.
Make certain that you save up money for the double heatsinks before anything else expensive.

I wanted to say some things about pulse lasers contra small/medium lasers but i'll stop here.

[Hauser]

Veteran46, on 28 February 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

Cool Shot 9
Artillery Strike.

I wouldn't use these. They'll eat into your profits badly. You need that money to get your DHS and XL engine. You might be better of with target info gathering, it lets you know what is damaged just a bit faster, which is useful as you don't want to stick around long.

Edited by Hauser, 28 February 2014 - 07:01 PM.

[Hauser]

Veteran46, on 28 February 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

Howdy everyone. I am still very much a noob at MWO, I have tried various light mechs, because I cant really afford a decent medium or above. I was wanting a critique on my current build(Critique not an ******* remark trashing me and my shitty mech). I am saving up for DHS but right now I dont have them.

In the long run mediums are cheaper then lights. To excel lights need to mount expensive XL engines, Endo steel and Fero fibrus upgrades. Most Mediums can get away with a standard engine and Endo Steel.

Granted once you've got your XL255 and XL300 engine you can reuse them allot of mechs.

[mailin]

Also, if you're sniping, Seismic Sensor could be useful, and I typically run cap accelerator on all of my lights.

[Fang01]

This is what I run. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7de3722c3bdce26

I understand you don't have the cash right now but save and build it. Once mastered its an absolute monster in the right hands

*as with all my smurfy links, armor shown does not accurately reflect what amounts I run and where. Work that one out on your own *

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

DHS and XL engines are mandatory for every light mech, No exceptions.

Edited by OuttaAmmo NoWai, 01 March 2014 - 02:33 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 01 March 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

DHS and XL engines are mandatory for every light mech, No exceptions.

DHS are mandatory these days i'll admit. I will install XL engines into my Jenners but i have been successull with the stock jenner engine too.
When i get the speed tweak i don't really need XL unless i want to install SRM's/streaks. But i will install Streaks so XL becomes necessary.

mailin, on 01 March 2014 - 02:06 AM, said:

Also, if you're sniping, Seismic Sensor could be useful, and I typically run cap accelerator on all of my lights.

This is a really powerfull tool to use when you end up close to your enemies and need to know which escape route to take.
It helps you come at your opponent from surprising angles and keeps you alive. Information about where your enemies are is the most usefull information you can have.
But keep in mind that it only works when you're standing still.

Oh yeah....Endo steel is much more important to lights than Ferro fibrous armor. Just wanted to make certain you knew that one.

Hauser, on 28 February 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

I wouldn't use these. They'll eat into your profits badly. You need that money to get your DHS and XL engine. You might be better of with target info gathering, it lets you know what is damaged just a bit faster, which is useful as you don't want to stick around long.

Target info gathering is very usefull yes....but only if you stand still long enough to get all that info.
Remember that the longer you stay out of cover to make your shot the more chance someone will spot you.
-Gaining target lock
-looking at the enemy's damage (this also distracts you from seeing any enemies that spot you since your attention is in the corner of the screen.)
-targeting heavily damaged spots (this might take a surprising long amount of time if the enemy is at long range.)
-shooting (ER Large Lasers have a long burn time)
-get into cover.
All these actions take precious time.

I fire without gaining target lock. Minimise the risk and time everytime you are out of cover.

Try shooting for spots on the enemy that is bellowing out black smoke to get into their internals. A lone skirmishing sniper is support mostly about supporting your team.
You mostly help wear down the armor and create opportunities for your teammates to hit internals.

That's how i've experienced things so far at least. Others probably have different experiences. My advice is not faultless.
If it was faultless i would not have such a poor KDR.

Another indicator that my advice isn't perfect is that i have no idea about Cool Shot 9 and Artillery Strike since i have never used them.

Khajja nar Jatargk, on 01 March 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

This is what I run. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7de3722c3bdce26

I understand you don't have the cash right now but save and build it. Once mastered its an absolute monster in the right hands

*as with all my smurfy links, armor shown does not accurately reflect what amounts I run and where. Work that one out on your own *

I'm sure this is a very powerfull build for close range skirmishers. I especially liked his choice in getting 2 x DHS instead of AMS.
But if you want to snipe it's not nearly longranged enough.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 01 March 2014 - 03:42 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Even though i wrotte all that i still forgot something. Remember that always targeting the same mech everytime you snipe makes him hyperalert to your activities.
Change it up sometimes so that you not only target a different enemy but also shoot that new enemy from a spot the first enemy can't see.

If you do this then it's less likely he will call for help. It might also make him think you have stopped attacking him thus opening him up for attack later if you're gone for a sufficient amount of time.

Remember that keeping yourself to one territory for a long time is a very bad idea. The lights will come hunting for you if you do.
Go for the other flank after a while or even go behind enemy lines to either cap or just get at the behinds of the enemy.

These are a very important things to remember. I can't believe i forgot it.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 01 March 2014 - 03:56 AM.