141 replies to this topic

[Magna Canus]

Daggett, on 05 March 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

...So i really advise to get more realistic and address the real problems of the game like matchmaking which puts new players together with vets or the lack of features to enable pugs to self-organize. Those are the things which spoil the fun for everyone including the whales, not the monetization.

Thanks Daggett for saying just about everything I believes needs to be said about this topic in your posts here.

As for player funding of servers and player run CW; Hell no. I don't want to have to deal with a bunch of nit-pickers pushing their oppinions and feeling entitled to it because "they paid for the server". I can at least believe that PGI will be neutral and impartial when the CW ball gets rolling, but I can't say the same for a bunch of guys hung up on their sense of "self entitlement". Nor do I like the idea of 192 guys deciding the "fate of the verse" in their self made sand box. No thanks.

As for subscriptions; Calculations above show that a regular MC ration is cheaper than a subscription with the same "pay for extra's" effect. With a subscription you are also caught in the loop; if you dont have the money to spend on it that month you have to terminate your subscription and reactivate later. If there was no content you wanted from that months release you still have to take it because you already paid for it. I like the idea of spending my MC when and on what I deem fit, e.g. I like the feeling of freedom of choice. So, no, no subscriptions please.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Koniving, on 01 March 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

Community Warfare is public matches.

There will not be any user set options, objectives, etc. in community warfare in terms of specific matches.

We will not know that before CW is implemented. With dropships offering some measure of autonomy for merc units and no real specifics known on how CW mat hes will truly occur.....PPM could potentially be involved.

Given PGIs record on certain issues (3pv, coolant etc), none of us know nor will we until CW actually rolls out, regardless of what they have stated or implied in the past. The obvious monetization opportunity of PPM would nest too easily with many of the routes they may take for CW, for that to be ignored.

Which is why I wrote "potentially" instead of claiming it as a fact.

[Ordellus]

So I see my topic title was edited from "whoring" to "business as usual"...

which I find both perfectly fitting, hilarious, foreshadowing

[DocBach]

perhaps it means the average forum riff raff posting the same usual complaints that a free to play game has content you have to pay for?

[Koniving]

Sam Slade, on 06 March 2014 - 01:20 AM, said:

While this may be true I'm talking about renting a server for say 192 players to facilitate some serious player made community warfare... that would be awesome and should be an option. I would rather have that have TOTAL control of multiple matches running simultaniously so as to simulate an ongoing campaign. Imagine, Fed Com Civil War Night... three battles in a row, each having a significant impact on next weeks Fed Com Civil War Nights map and so forth... integrate it with a website ala current player made leagues and you have awesomeness.... want.

The current game setup can't handle that.

If it didn't have the anti-hacker protection of server-side authority and was freely open to a plethora of free to play game hacks, then sure that's possible as I seen Cry Engine do up to 64 players. But that's all I've seen.

[Ordellus]

DocBach, on 06 March 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

perhaps it means the average forum riff raff posting the same usual complaints that a free to play game has content you have to pay for?

Yeah, how dare people show up expecting the game they advertise as "free" to be free....oh wait

Edited by Ordellus, 06 March 2014 - 10:45 AM.

[DocBach]

you don't need to pay a single cent to be as effective in combat as someone who's spent $1000, unless hero 'Mechs with poor hardpoints and different colors is absolutely critical to your experience.

[Ordellus]

DocBach, on 06 March 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

you don't need to pay a single cent to be as effective in combat as someone who's spent $1000, unless hero 'Mechs with poor hardpoints and different colors is absolutely critical to your experience.

Didn't say that. I'm talking about charging for game features, and making the game a boring grind unless you pay. Address the actual point please.

Also keep in mind they advertise as being completely free, not "Subscription with a penalized free option"

[DocBach]

The game is completely free if you want it to be. If you are too impatient to play for a week to unlock a new 'Mech that you use real money then that is your prerogative.

You are playing a game that they programmed and develop and update regularly for free. The premium content to have more options for the match module for one, isn't even out, and is very little more than what non-paying customers get.

[UnsafePilot]

Ordellus, on 06 March 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Also keep in mind they advertise as being completely free, not "Subscription with a penalized free option"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

[Savage Wolf]

Free to play is not free, it's free to play.
Let me try and be completely clear, it costs nothing if all you want to do is to play, if you want more, free is not guaranteed.

[Craig Steele]

Savage Wolf, on 06 March 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Free to play is not free, it's free to play.
Let me try and be completely clear, it costs nothing if all you want to do is to play, if you want more, free is not guaranteed.

+1, game is advertised as "Free to Play", and it is.

[Ordellus]

UnsafePilot, on 06 March 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_ain't_no_such_thing_as_a_free_lunch

Then perhaps they shouldn't advertise it as free...

Savage Wolf, on 06 March 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Free to play is not free, it's free to play.
Let me try and be completely clear, it costs nothing if all you want to do is to play, if you want more, free is not guaranteed.

Yeah and health insurance covers you, until it doesn't.

Both equally vague and shitty.

Craig Steele, on 06 March 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

+1, game is advertised as "Free to Play", and it is.

Yep, advertised as Free to Play*

*be aware you will be penalized, and your play time will be as boring and pointlessly annoying as we can possibly make it while you aren't paying for every individual feature

again, none of this addressing the actual point of them being worried about making money off of every little thing as opposed to producing a quality game.... glad we have so many people that love vague, misleading, rhetorical contracts though

Edited by Ordellus, 06 March 2014 - 03:43 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Ordellus, on 06 March 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

*be aware you will be penalized, and your play time will be as boring and pointlessly annoying as we can possibly make it while you aren't paying for every individual feature

I think you are confusing a small dev staff and possibly incompetence, for intent.

I doubt PGI wants to the game experience to be shitty, especially for new players (because happy players rationalize reasons to spend money on a hobby). They would prefer the game was perceived as awesome and to make the incentives for chipping in money seem worthwhile.

That they may be failing in that (opinions vary, we can see yours clearly on the subject), doesn't mean they want to make a sucky game.

[Craig Steele]

Ordellus, on 06 March 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

[/size]
Then perhaps they shouldn't advertise it as free...



Yeah and health insurance covers you, until it doesn't.

Both equally vague and shitty.



[size=4]Yep, advertised as Free to Play*

*be aware you will be penalized, and your play time will be as boring and pointlessly annoying as we can possibly make it while you aren't paying for every individual feature (1)

again, none of this addressing the actual point of them being worried about making money off of every little thing as opposed to producing a quality game (2).... glad we have so many people that love vague, misleading, rhetorical contracts (3) though

(1) Oh dear, the option provided free for anyone doesn't meet every single persons individual desires. Well I'll be.

Of course they should take a good hard look at themselves and make a game that appeals to every single person in the world. No one yet has designed something that caters for the worlds population when they charge for it but this free to play game should or the Devs are worthy of scorn.

Honestly think about what you're saying.

(2) Oh you mean like the free to enter competitions held the last couple of weeks. Solo dropping Mediums and 5 games = free Centurian. Maybe you mean the Sarah's Jenner when they spent some of their resources creating a one off mech and donated all the proceeds to charity. Yes, I can see how EVERYTHING they do is to generate money and they have no interest in anything else.

(3) Yes indeed, forums seem to be full of hate filled rants that with a couple of moments of reflection have no basis what so ever. Some people just want to watch the world burn I guess.

[DaZur]

Ordellus, on 06 March 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

[/size]
again, none of this addressing the actual point of them being worried about making money off of every little thing as opposed to producing a quality game.... glad we have so many people that love vague, misleading, rhetorical contracts though

Oh good lord enough with feinging the indignation and arguing the semantics of what exactly does "free-to-play" infer.

Not everything in life is literal...

IGP as the publisher is a profit organization and are the venture capitalist for MW:O. Thus, it's is IGPs goal to develop a functionally viable software vehicle to net IGP as much revenue as possible to placate the projected and anticipated annual sales that were pitched by PGI to obtain said startup capital. As such, the end-goal for all parties is for MW:O to net as much profit over development and operational costs as possible.

While you may not like it, when you signed up you agreed to the terms as set forth and as such you willing acknowledged and agreed to said terms.



I hate people who attempt to play the victim card.

Edited by DaZur, 06 March 2014 - 04:46 PM.

[Riptor]

Outlaw, on 05 March 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Last i checked this was a company not a charity, who knows maybe one day UNICEF will get into the MMO business.

Last time i checked i was a customer and not a walking wallet that owes PGI anything. They want my money? How about delivering the game they promised?

How about not charging for fundamental and in most games standard features and instead making a compelling product?

Whats that? A compelling product where i dont feel nickle and dimed and actually want to spend money on instead of needing to?

Nah... minimal viable product baby! Has been this companies motto since day 1

Meanwhile on warthunder i can set up private matches and even PVE matches... have different game modes and even historical modes EVERYTHING without paying a single cent... oh did i mention that the private games allow me to set up as i want?

I mean wow... all those "private" games and yet they dont charge me extra for them... i mean with all the ADDITIONAL costs that rests on their shoulders from offering such a "service" for free you would be amazed that they even make money of their game!

Meanwhile pgi wants to tell us a story about how a private match of 24 people somehow creates additional traffic... even thought theres still only 24 people playing a match.

It doesnt matter if its a pug match or a private match.. the stress on the server should be the same. On pug matches you have matchmaker and statistic tracking.. in private matches you have some options you set before the drop.

The matches themselves are the bloody same!

24 people in private match mean 24 people not in the Pug que and vice versa.. there is no added traffic here... but keep drinking the coolaid paladins... you deserve it.

DaZur, on 06 March 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

I hate people who attempt to play the victim card.

And i hate corporate whores but hey... what can you do right?

I mean BP is a corporation too so they where totaly in the right skimping on money for the equipment on their oil platform right? I mean they exist solely to make a profit too.

See where your "logic" is getting to when you keep following it?

Edited by Riptor, 11 March 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[Outlaw]

Hey, last i checked no one had a gun to your head saying you had to give them money.

[DaZur]

Riptor, on 11 March 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

And i hate corporate whores but hey... what can you do right?

I mean BP is a corporation too so they where totaly in the right skimping on money for the equipment on their oil platform right? I mean they exist solely to make a profit too.

See where your "logic" is getting to when you keep following it?

Wow... a strawman and a red herring all in the same paragraph... nice.

There's a big difference between a corporation skimping on safety to skim the bottom line and a company establishing multiple parallel profit vehicles to maximize revenue.

Difference is one is unconscionable when you place profit above safety. The other only become an irritation when some social-entitlement Kool-Aid drinker determines that the companies net profits is stifling their freedom...

[Savage Wolf]

Riptor, on 11 March 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Last time i checked i was a customer and not a walking wallet that owes PGI anything.

That is entirely true. You don't owe PGI anything. And you are by no means forced to pay them anything.

Riptor, on 11 March 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Whats that? A compelling product where i dont feel nickle and dimed and actually want to spend money on instead of needing to?

You wouldn't be here arguing if you didn't find the game compelling. If this game was in fact boring and terrible, you wouldn't be arguing about the price of private matches, because then you wouldn't care about private matches.