41 replies to this topic

[Graystone1]

Hello again!
I am curious to hear your thoughts about the assault class on a per-chassis basis. I do understand that different loadouts can wildly change a mech's orientation. However, from what I've been reading there are some that are obviously better suited things than others. (Ex: Stalker isn't a tank so much as it is a crawling weapons platform; Atlas is a bullet magnet tank)

So again:
What do you think about the different chassis? What's your favorite and what sort of builds do you prefer on it? Just anything you want to share.

The reason I ask is because I want to buy a tanky assault but am unsure whether to buy an Atlas (which i know to be difficult to pilot well), Battlemaster (favored 1-G), or Banshee (I have found little information on).

[Koniving]

Well, overall... my opinions.
Awesome -- would be Awesome if it wasn't easier to hit the Ct from the side than it is from the front. I suspect there's a bug in the hit boxes. Though it desperately needs an art overhaul. Wait til then.

Victor -- the common favorite. Arms have terrible reach and if not for the autocannons and jumpjets this would be the worst assault. If this thing didn't have streaks or if streaks didn't exist, it'd be considered the second worst assault.

Stalker -- terrible turning speed compared to other assault mechs (thus my favorite, it feels like an assault). Good weapons platform, typically bad torso twist. Certain Variants need perks. Tanks shots better than an Atlas. Would be the best assault we have if its Battletech abilities were here (i.e. flippable arms; able to fire directly behind itself too).

Battlemaster -- in terms of movement and survivability it's the polar opposite of the Stalker. Good twist, good speed, good turning, can't take much abuse. Every build you can make with a Misery (Stalker hero) you can replicate with a Battlemaster.

Highlander. Pretty solid mech. Energy hardpoints difficult to use due to torso mounting.

(Interesting note: The Heavy Metal [Highlander hero] is actually a Victor with better arm twist and 10 more tons. The Dragon Slayer [Victor hero] is actually a Highlander with 10 fewer tons. Don't get what I mean? Check out the hardpoint locations. Fun!)

Banshee. Second oldest mech in existence supposedly. (Macky being the first). Cockpit's made to give you that old-timey feel with some upgraded crap hashed in there. Very torso-focused weaponry. Good speed, but otherwise awful for any hill humping meta. Instead focus on being a walking weapons platform and use the arms to take shots.

Atlas. Walking tomb if you arm it to meta; everyone wants to kill you first. Be sure your loadout is varied to be able to fight back and live longer.

[AlmightyAeng]

First off, you can find a full thread devoted to this in the 'Assault Mech Guides' forum section. Here's a link.

That said, here are MY thoughts

Let's go from 80-100 tons, shall we?

Awesome: Can be nice for boating large amounts of missiles, but the size of the torso hitboxes render it into more of a moving barn...and subsequently turns it into a collapsed, smoking shed.

Victor: GREAT hitboxes. Jumpjets. Wonderful for the 2xAC5/2xPPC meta. Also good for brawling (particularly the one with the AC20 in the arm)

Stalker: The vaunted girthy pickle. Throw in a standard engine and point towards the enemy. Great at soaking damage from the front, not so much from the sides. Has variants that can boat lasers, or missiles, or a combo. Solid mech. Misery has room for an AC20, which some argue makes it Stalker el numero uno.

Battlemaster: Suffers slightly from the barn-door syndrome that the Awesome does, but less so. Has a variant that boats missiles quite well, one that boats lasers, and a mix. People often have mixed results...and claim that of all the jobs it does, another mech CAN do it better. It's not terrible, but in average hands is just that, average.

Highlander: It's like a Victor...that loves cake. More armor, less speed. With jumpjets, does the 2xAC5/2xPPC meta just fine. Can also brawl like a more mobile Atlas...JJ come in handy.

Banshee: Of the 3 variants, people unanimously seem to love the ballistic variant best. 3xAC5/2PPC seems to be the standard turret build people love. NOTHING in the arms...use those huge shields to your advantage. Slow, blockly, but great at direct-fire suppression. Can lay down the pain.

Atlas: The DDC is the obvious choice among them, for the simple sake of ECM. Turning 100 tons of metal into a sneaky, if slow, ninja, has untold advantages. Brawls very well with. NEVER use an XL engine. Some people have turned them back into ECM missile boats with the patch...but that build is often wasted on the chassis. The other variants aren't bad...but, lacking ECM, often fall by the wayside once leveled up, unless you're playing a Boar's Head for grinding out C-bills.

So, ranked in groups, according to my own success, I'd tier rank them thusly:

Bottom tier is Awesome and the Battlemaster.

Middle Tier is Stalker, Highlander and Banshee.

My top tier is my Atlas and Victors.

Remember, though, the mech is only as good as the pilot...results WILL vary. I have individual chassis' of a VARIETY of assault mechs that do well for me. These tiers are generalities...according to my playstyles.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 11 April 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Modo44]

You want a Highlander, preferably 733C. It can take major punishment, and it can relocate easily thanks to the jump jets (good GTFO potential).

The Battlemaster sucks with a standard engine, so do not expect it to be very tanky while bringing a useful amount of firepower. Of all assaults, only an Awesome is easier to kill. The Stalker, Banshee, and Atlas are solid tanks, but require good positioning or no amount of armor will help you. The Victor is less of a tank, and more of a shoot-and-scoot design, excelling at mobility over sheer staying power.

Edited by Modo44, 11 April 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[Crotch RockIt]

Koniving, on 11 April 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Battlemaster -- in terms of movement and survivability it's the polar opposite of the Stalker. Good twist, good speed, good turning, can't take much abuse. Every build you can make with a Misery (Stalker hero) you can replicate with a Battlemaster.

Not quite. A Misery can mount an AC/20, but a Battlemaster can't. I know you know this, so I'm assuming this was just a minor oversight on your part.

[Koniving]

Crotch RockIt, on 11 April 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

Not quite. A Misery can mount an AC/20, but a Battlemaster can't. I know you know this, so I'm assuming this was just a minor oversight on your part.

Well then: Any build I or a sane person would use on a Misery you can replicate on a Battlemaster.

I don't use AC/20s on my Misery. Done it a few times, learned my lesson. Lose the side armor, an MG spider hits it for a second and it's just gone. Get hit by a stray PPC or laser, AC/20's gone. Tripped? AC/20's gone. Hop out of the mech for a bathroom break, AC/20's gone. Go to fire the AC/20, the AC/20's gone.

Stalker's side torso is the length of any Atlas's height or pretty dang close. It's the only thing as large as an Awesome. Anything and everything will take out that AC/20 because you can't protect it by stuffing other things in there.

An AC/20 in a Misery is more fragile than a Gauss Rifle (as least you can protect that) and easier to get rid of than a stationary Locust with sporting 0 points of armor.

[Crotch RockIt]

Koniving, on 11 April 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Well then: Any build I or a sane person would use on a Misery you can replicate on a Battlemaster.

I don't use AC/20s on my Misery. Done it a few times, learned my lesson. Lose the side armor, an MG spider hits it for a second and it's just gone. Get hit by a stray PPC or laser, AC/20's gone. Tripped? AC/20's gone. Hop out of the mech for a bathroom break, AC/20's gone. Go to fire the AC/20, the AC/20's gone.

Stalker's side torso is the length of any Atlas's height or pretty dang close. It's the only thing as large as an Awesome. Anything and everything will take out that AC/20 because you can't protect it by stuffing other things in there.

An AC/20 in a Misery is more fragile than a Gauss Rifle (as least you can protect that) and easier to get rid of than a stationary Locust with sporting 0 points of armor.

Hey, nobody said anything about sanity here.

I don't have a Misery yet, but will probably get one the next time it goes on sale (hopefully soon, PGI?). Planning to either keep the Gauss or swap it for an LBX (with an A-SRM6 on the other side of the LBX to balance it out).

Edited by Crotch RockIt, 11 April 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[Koniving]

It'd be an interesting concept. Personally I use a combination of AC/5 + 2 PPCs, and up close it's AC/5 + SRM-4 + 2 SL + 1 SPL.
It's surprisingly effective.

The goal of the weapon combination is to make defensive torso twisting impossible and void. There's no consistency in the timing, and so it doesn't matter when you twist, you can't protect yourself from the onslaught of my weapons; which btw generate almost no heat so I can run them for an insanely long time.

[Crotch RockIt]

I'm thinking about running something like this on the Misery, obviously as a close range brawler:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6e0af850f3b1d32

The LBX and SRM6 in one group. The 4xML in a second group. The LPL grouped by itself (mostly for backup, in case one of the side torsos get blown off).

If I kept the Gauss, I'd pair it with 2 ERLL for a long range build (with a LPL in the CT again for backup).

Sorry for going slightly off topic to the OP, but this Misery discussion brings up a relevant point. I don't own any Assault heros, but it would be beneficial to the thread for the more experienced users like Koniving to rate the Assault heros specifically, too.

[Koniving]

I think it's still on topic: The topic is assault opinions, is it not?

I rated heroes once before. But it's been a long while. I believe the only one that I said was overpowered (compared to its similar mechs) was the X-5. Some come pretty close, some on par, and some a bit inferior. I'd like to think I have enough heroes to be able to have opinions on them.

Right this second I'm missing Jester, Oxide, and Huginn. But damn soon as I can I'm getting me a Hug!

(Grid Iron due to some PGI fluke is hiding in the Champions section).

Truth be told, I would have liked to see the Misery with 2 ballistic slots (I wanted twin MGs for some odd reason) and 3 missile ports and expected 2 energy slots. But low and behold.

The issue I'm seeing is heat, but this is coming from myself -- I like to shoot a lot and rapidly and I don't like letting go of the trigger.

Btw, have you run a Stalker before? If long range is your game, you could bring that rear armor to 11 for each to last longer in a long range fight. For the current one something like 14 will do. The LB is pretty low heat, SRM 6 fires rarely enough to keep its heat down. ML and LPL to focus damage where you need it. As I said I believe it'll be a really solid build. You'll want to watch that LPL use. Or more likely watch the ML use. If it's too hot to fire the ML, switch to solely the LPL (as it's 8.5 heat, where 2 ML is 8 heat).

Here's what I run on my Misery, I've been using this since the 4 PPC meta and it stood up to a 4 ER PPC Stalker and a 4 ER PPC + Gauss Atlas for over a minute of non-stop two on one combat (under very hot conditions). The Stalker got disarmed, the Atlas lost half his body and was literally one shot away from death when the Stalker cut in front, blocking my shot with his 50% damage reducing side torso remnant hitbox, and immediately following it the Atlas got me finally. (Fun story I gotta dig that up for ya).

Spoiler

For comparison this is the legendary Flamer Stalker, which can tank amazing abuse. Its armor design has remained unchanged for over a year.

Spoiler

(Forgot to mention it, but the location of my hero ratings is somewhere after page 30 and before page 50 of Short Question, Short Answer).

[Crotch RockIt]

Only Stalker I've played a lot is the Champion lurm boat when it was a trial mech, and I spent some time in a Misery on the recently open public test server. Will get a 3F and either a 5S or 5M for leveling, once I have enough c-bills.

Regarding heat on the Misery, the firing strategy you mentioned is exactly how I planned to run it. Alternate between the mediums and LPL until I lose a ST, then start alfa-ing with whatever weapons are left.

(Speaking of the X5, I love that damn thing. Currently my second best mech since the reset with a 2.4 KDR and 332 avg dmg. Cicada 3M is my best one at 4.67 KDR, and all my other mech stats pale in comparison.)

[Koniving]

Hero 50% off sale.
I suppose if you are serious about it, now's as good a time as any.

[Graystone1]

Crotch RockIt, on 11 April 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

I don't have a Misery yet, but will probably get one the next time it goes on sale (hopefully soon, PGI?). Planning to either keep the Gauss or swap it for an LBX (with an A-SRM6 on the other side of the LBX to balance it out).

How prophetic. Ask and yee shall receive. April 19th. (in my opinion even 50% off, the cost of hero mechs is just silly)

Edited by Graystone1, 11 April 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[Turist0AT]

Assaults trades speed for firepower. That firepower can be devided for long-medium-short range or specialise in one(to become a complete murder machine when in the right environment). Some assaults are better than others at this.

I specialise my heavys not assaults, because the assaults have the tonnage to do it all

Examples:

Battlemaste-1G: 2AC5+LPL(in arms) 2ERPPC + 4ML(in torso) all ranges, and LPL for those fast buggers.

Stalkers(5M,5S): 2ERPPC + bunch of ML(or MPL) and bunch of Streaks(kill those lights and dont forget BAP)
Misery: AC20+SRM6 combo for the canopener effect, ERPPC+LPL and 3Flamers. I dont know how, but it wrecks things.
+ the sperb survivability on all stalkers (STD engine...always) oh and dual AMS on 5S. One more thing, the more body parts it loses the cooler it runs.

Banshee(3E,3S): Well, im new to this bad boy, but it can boat Energy+Balistics or Balistics+energy depends on the variant. All in all good boat for energy balistic combos.


Highlander(HM) and victor(9B) are extension of my heavys, balistic+energy combo (2AC5+3LL or 2UAC+2LPL or PPC, or AC20+Energy of choice) if XL i can put in missiles too, short or long range. Jump Jets F*ck yeah!


Im an heavy pilot but the firepower Assaults can take is to mutch for me to say no too. I even turn my mediums into assaults


P.S before i forget, not all Highlanders and Victors can take AC-20, look carefully when you buy them. Heavy Metal cannot take AC-20 for example. AC20 means you can take 2UAC5.

Edited by Turist0AT, 11 April 2014 - 03:29 PM.

[Graystone1]

So what I'm hearing is the BattleMasters I had my eyes on are considered second rate and suffer from some of the same hitbox problems as the Awesome (notorious for being a walking center torso).
I'm also hearing that stalkers are better at tanking than i had thought, and favored along with Banshees and Highlanders.
With some varied thoughts on Victors and Atlas.
Guess I'll take a look at the Banshee and Highlander.

Koniving, on 11 April 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Well, overall... my opinions.

Highlander. Pretty solid mech. Energy hardpoints difficult to use due to torso mounting.

Banshee. Second oldest mech in existence supposedly. (Macky being the first). Cockpit's made to give you that old-timey feel with some upgraded crap hashed in there. Very torso-focused weaponry. Good speed, but otherwise awful for any hill humping meta.

What the heck is up with this hill humping I see in almost every single game? I always wanna jump over that hill or hit them from behind, but there's always a ton of them and no one wants to join me even if I communicate in small words.

[Turist0AT]

Graystone1, on 11 April 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

So what I'm hearing is the BattleMasters I had my eyes on are considered second rate and suffer from some of the same hitbox problems as the Awesome (notorious for being a walking center torso).
I'm also hearing that stalkers are better at tanking than i had thought, and favored along with Banshees and Highlanders.
With some varied thoughts on Victors and Atlas.
Guess I'll take a look at the Banshee and Highlander.


What the heck is up with this hill humping I see in almost every single game? I always wanna jump over that hill or hit them from behind, but there's always a ton of them and no one wants to join me even if I communicate in small words.

Hi mate. About walking torso, banshee, atlas any humanoid assault is a walking torso. Stalker have the best survivability of them all. I think you should still consider Battlemaster, its good, its hardpoints are good, hitboxes are as crappy as other man-walkers. Banshee and highlander dont use Arm hardpoints witch is a very bad thing(for me), you need to be able to track fast targets.

Thats why i got Heavy Metal and Victor instead of just any highlander. Banshee its all torso weapons, you will not be able to hit stuff to high or to low like Battlemaster, Victor,Stalker can

Edited by Turist0AT, 11 April 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[Koniving]

Battlemasters take a bit more abuse than Victors, almost as much as Highlanders (if you run standard engines). I actually run really well with them, but since most of their weapons are on the torsos players don't play defensively when it comes to taking damage, resulting in them dying faster. (Also note the Stalker is an unnatural damage taker since it fights most enemies head on, who can't focus one torso too well especially with laser weaponry. When charging an enemy shooting ballistics, anything aimed at the CT will actually hit LT and RT, due to being converged on a point that you are passing through).

Supposedly, someone saw on some jacked up place in reddit as seen in the new variant discussion that some new variants are coming out. Evidently they include some Battlemasters.

Far as hill humping, that's the big thing. Every map has choke points and if there's no cover, there's a hill.

It'd be nice to see some maps without choke points, with even cover (or the lack there of) throughout the map.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 11 April 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Any build I or a sane person would use

Quoting this so people will not forget - next time you hear about some insane build (usually in the sense of crappy)....


....Remember Koniving folks.

[Koniving]

Glad someone caught that.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 11 April 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

Glad someone caught that.

It would have taken a lunatic to catch it - with all that you type.