24 replies to this topic

[Name115734]

So my old clan asked me to join the for 12-man's last night. Cool, sounds great.

Meeting time was 6pm GMT, at 6:30 everyone finally gathers, we try to sync drop with no success until everyone gets there, no problems, a big pain the butt for nothing, but no problems. The odd people out pug while we wait.

Everyone finally gets situated, we fold into a 12 man team, wait for the last guy to ready up and launch.

At this point, it has been 45 minutes of rushing to wait....

Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail

One hour now, no exaggeration, but who's counting, we are all happy to be in channel getting annoyed in unison.

We get a match; terra therma; conquest; GREAT, let's do it! (P.S. Just for you Ialti)

And... wait for it... 2 disconnects on our side.

BOO YAH!

Let the PGI hate fest commence!

I will admit, I can be a very impatient person, I have a 3yr old and 6 yr old at home. All my patience has been spent on them. I have no desire to have to extend my patience to a game that is supposed to be fun and divert me from reality.

After the tirade and subsequent utter defeat. I am first to call it, shut down the client and walk away, I did mumble "Good bye", but I doubt anyone heard me. Sorry to the team, that was rude of me.

THIS is why your metrics are wrong PGI! THIS is what you have reduced teams to! THIS is what you are going to charge people for! If you think I will pay for one day of premium time for THIS kind of service, you are sorely mistaken! And for anyone who is OKAY with it, give your head a shake and think, for the love of MW, think!

Edited by No Remorse, 01 March 2014 - 06:37 AM.

[Chemie]

Wed at 8pm EST we had a 12 man it got no match; after 5 tries disbanded.

[rotagh]

I already get disconnected when I try to drop with 3 other groupmates.. I'm pretty sure that isn't supposed to happen..

[Randalf Yorgen]

If your own team was quitting because of the map you dropped on it sounds like you were doing it to your selves. Yes the wait time is horrid and there are bugs all over the place in this game but when your own team jumps ship it's time to find a new team.

That behaviour on the Marik Server would more than likely get you removed from your unit and see you demoted to the rank of Reserve. Which is an insult to those who chose to be reserves because they don't have the time to put into a unit every week.

I would say that this is actually something you should be directing at your own team members and not PGI as the issues with the game have been well known for quite some time. The issue here is that you had a bad experience because your own team mates quit the match. PGI has no control over that.

Let the hate fest for your own team commence.

[Name115734]

Randalf Yorgen, on 01 March 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

If your own team was quitting because of the map you dropped on it sounds like you were doing it to your selves. Yes the wait time is horrid and there are bugs all over the place in this game but when your own team jumps ship it's time to find a new team.

That behaviour on the Marik Server would more than likely get you removed from your unit and see you demoted to the rank of Reserve. Which is an insult to those who chose to be reserves because they don't have the time to put into a unit every week.

I would say that this is actually something you should be directing at your own team members and not PGI as the issues with the game have been well known for quite some time. The issue here is that you had a bad experience because your own team mates quit the match. PGI has no control over that.

Let the hate fest for your own team commence.

How about you actually read before you post next time please. Then, maybe, you could make a somewhat informed PGI defense.

PGI defenders to the rescue!

Edited by No Remorse, 01 March 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[Davers]

The simple fact is that even when you can find matches, and even if you are winning them, it is hard to keep the same 12 players for more than 3-4 drops. Then it is off to bug everyone else in the TS for more players until it all breaks down into smaller groups. It is very frustrating.

I don't know why PGI can't try to match for team size like they intend to do with Elo and mech weight (bring a Locust and MM tries to find a Locust). I am sure players wouldn't mind a little extra time searching for a match if they could drop in whatever group size they wanted.

[oldradagast]

Flat-out honest, the logistics needed to get a 12 man together plus the endless "Failed to find match" is why I don't bother with it. I doubt I'm good enough for high end play anyway, and I do enjoy playing silly mechs (like Awesomes) at times... but the real killer is how long it takes to get 12 people together and readied up - and there's always that situation where you have 11 and have sent the invite to the 12th... and then 1 guy says it's taking too long and drops out - argh! Top that off with "failed to find match" over and over again and it's usually just not worth it, sadly. I can play 4 mans with my friends endlessly without problems, so that's where I stay - that, and pugging, of course.

Edited by oldradagast, 01 March 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Warrior UK]

No Remorse, on 01 March 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

How about you actually read before you post next time please. Then, maybe, you could make a somewhat informed PGI defense.

PGI defenders to the rescue!

Luv it mate.....What a dumb ass! lol

[Novakaine]

Sadly this is what PGI wants.
No Teams.
That is why 12 man stink, they want it to stink.
And stink it does.
I truly believe they trying their every best to drive all the founders and Battletech/Mechwarrior game fans away.
For whatever twisted and misguided reasons they have.
That way all thats left is a bunch twitch kiddies ala Call of Doody types.
No need for community warfare or any REAL content.
An no one to clog up their forums with complaints about the above mentioned.
This has been and always will be a niche game period.
Their silly goal is just plain stupid.
It can't for that reason rise to the level of COD,BF4 Warcraft or even Angry Birds.
But instead of making their core players happy and dumping their pockets on PGI doorstep.
They have decided to go after mommy and daddies wallet instead.
In the vain misguided hope that more money is there.
Oh don't get me wrong the twitchies will join up and play.
But they won't be around for long.
This dumb behavior from PGI is why a team like mine went from 90+ people "clamoring" to play.
To roughly 5 to 8 add in different timezones and real life.
We can barely field a 4 man any given night.
Is this a constant across the gamut of team older than a year or more?
I don't know, but I bet it damn close.
Oh Oh the PGI Defense force is pushing now.
Gotta run.

[Warrior UK]

PGI ballsed up any grouping over four when the restriction was put into game and now they give us a load of bull dung with a graph and stats that just dont add up nor come anu where near what PGI go on about, but wait, very soon in the new launch module the ELO along with the rest of the bull we are trying to pull over your eyes can drop your group in private matches, such as 'Free Premtime, (restricted, must form 2x12) and Premtime (that costs MC/Cash with no retsrictions, any number of players on both teams).... wait what about you so called ELO?, has that not got a say in who you can pic to join that private match, the numbers suddenly add up for the ELO to just say 'Sod it!' and drop with any number of players that group up (2-12) and drop so long as you have to pay for it. It sounds about right to me with the way things have been going lately on the money grabbing front, with CW coming in the future I can hear the 'Ka-Ching' till bell going from here, thats if this game has a player base then.... Well done PGI, if this is so, then you must rank for the longest running money grab to get your name in the Guinness book of Records...

[XX Sulla XX]

If done right the lobby system will help. The main problem I see with it is I do not remember seeing anything about it listing 12 games waiting on players. But if they do then people who wanted to play in those games could fill them out even if not a 12 man. On the other hand if you just have to invite people it will make it harder to fill out games.

[Fooooo]

XX Sulla XX, on 01 March 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

If done right the lobby system will help. The main problem I see with it is I do not remember seeing anything about it listing 12 games waiting on players. But if they do then people who wanted to play in those games could fill them out even if not a 12 man. On the other hand if you just have to invite people it will make it harder to fill out games.

Interesting question that one.......and its the way i would prefer tbh. (the way you say)

It sounds like from what PGI has said that you will need to invite players to the private matches. Instead of being able to choose "Open match" or "Private Match".

The way they should do it is basically in the chat in mechlab. (if they ever fix it properly) You can open a tab that shows current open matches.

Open match would mean the match is listed in the game list visible for all in the selected lobby to see, like most RTS's do basically.

You create a game and other ppl in the lobby can select it and join it if they want. You can name the game anything you want, like 2v2 only!, or whatever you want etc.

Private Matches would be either invite only, or password locked etc etc but use the same mechanism..

Lobby ----> Select Match ----> Enter password.


Basically give an area for everyone to goto. (A lobby) Then have this lobby show games that have been created and let people join them etc........simples............you still then have the option of doing the "quick launch" like we already have now.

[Svidro]

Just started playing this... http://marikcivilwar.enjin.com/
If you want guaranteed competition, and are willing to set dates and times, you can have it. I find that the scheduling actually makes it easier to get the right number of people together to compete, plus they track your stats for the matches which is kind of neat. I know there are other options as well, like Run hot or die, and Proxis.

[TB Freelancer]

meh...PGIs mistake was allowing premades and pugs to mix. Once a lot of groups got a taste of easy wins and the lucrative rewards, why would they want to face a real fight with all the grind in the game? Most chose to sync drop rather than face their peers because easy wins and raking in cbills is more fun than loosing...and don't forget RnR was still around at the start of this mess. Easy wins, big money, low repair bills.

When they introduced 8 mans and 4 man lance limits, it made no difference because the teams shell shocked by their very brief taste of the 8vs8 queue could effortlessly sync drop successfully enough to keep it lucrative and the shift back to fighting pugs started only hours after the 8vs8 queue was introduced. When Elo and 12 mans came out, they could still sync with lower success rates, again lucrative enough to keep trying, by then you could have stuck a fork in the premade queue, it was already done.

While PGI deserves most of the blame for creating a system allowing the situation to occur, the organized groups aren't blameless in this either. They demanded those queues, they said they wanted to fight real opposition, didn't want stupid pugs on their team, but PGI leaving the choice open for them to face their peers or sync drop for easier wins, the vast majority chose to sync drop leaving the group queue they so forcefully demanded to have stillborn.

As far as the moaning about the odd man out goes. Tough. Not everyone can be accommodated in the standard formats. Moaning about having 5 players is no different than QQ'ing about having 13 and not being able to get them all on the same team. A good 4 man 1/3 of a team and actually more than should reasonably be allowed to mix with pugs. PGI allowed 4 out of respect for cannon lance sizes despite other titles having proven that keeping premades to under 25% in public matches is optimal for match balance. People around here should be thankful that PGI is still allowing premades an easier ride than they deserve in that respect rather than acting like petulant children.

Personally I think the 12vs12 queue is too limited. It should allow 4, 8 or 12 mans with strict 1/1/1/1 lance configurations for each 4 in the group. While not perfect, it would allow real teams that genuinely want a challenge to face their peers without horrendous wait times, it would also eliminate a lot of the garbage team configurations that many used as an excuse for avoiding the premade queue and sync dropping. For odd numbers or uneven teams, premium matches are available.

PGI is taking a step in the right direction with the announced changes they're coming out with. Actually, since UI2.0 was released (despite its supremely aggravating flaws) and after seeing some of what's coming out in tomorrows patch, and knowing about some of the other changes coming, the pace of things and the direction they are moving in is kind of encouraging.

There are changes I don't particularly care for, but I generally wait and see how they play out before passing judgement.

Edited by TB Freelancer, 03 March 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[Triordinant]

TB Freelancer, on 03 March 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

meh...PGIs mistake was allowing premades and pugs to mix. Once a lot of groups got a taste of easy wins and the lucrative rewards, why would they want to face a real fight with all the grind in the game? Most chose to sync drop rather than face their peers because easy wins and raking in cbills is more fun than loosing...and don't forget RnR was still around at the start of this mess. Easy wins, big money, low repair bills.

When they introduced 8 mans and 4 man lance limits, it made no difference because the teams shell shocked by their very brief taste of the 8vs8 queue could effortlessly sync drop successfully enough to keep it lucrative and the shift back to fighting pugs started only hours after the 8vs8 queue was introduced. When Elo and 12 mans came out, they could still sync with lower success rates, again lucrative enough to keep trying, by then you could have stuck a fork in the premade queue, it was already done.

While PGI deserves most of the blame for creating a system allowing the situation to occur, the organized groups aren't blameless in this either. They demanded those queues, they said they wanted to fight real opposition, didn't want stupid pugs on their team, but PGI leaving the choice open for them to face their peers or sync drop for easier wins, the vast majority chose to sync drop leaving the group queue they so forcefully demanded to have stillborn.

THIS was the fatal flaw from the outset. They're still trying to make up for that mistake to this day.

[NextGame]

No Remorse, on 01 March 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

So my old clan asked me to join the for 12-man's last night. Cool, sounds great.

Meeting time was 6pm GMT, at 6:30 everyone finally gathers, we try to sync drop with no success until everyone gets there, no problems, a big pain the butt for nothing, but no problems. The odd people out pug while we wait.

Everyone finally gets situated, we fold into a 12 man team, wait for the last guy to ready up and launch.

At this point, it has been 45 minutes of rushing to wait....

Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail
Search....fail

One hour now, no exaggeration, but who's counting, we are all happy to be in channel getting annoyed in unison.

We get a match; terra therma; conquest; GREAT, let's do it! (P.S. Just for you Ialti)

And... wait for it... 2 disconnects on our side.

BOO YAH!

Let the PGI hate fest commence!

I will admit, I can be a very impatient person, I have a 3yr old and 6 yr old at home. All my patience has been spent on them. I have no desire to have to extend my patience to a game that is supposed to be fun and divert me from reality.

After the tirade and subsequent utter defeat. I am first to call it, shut down the client and walk away, I did mumble "Good bye", but I doubt anyone heard me. Sorry to the team, that was rude of me.

THIS is why your metrics are wrong PGI! THIS is what you have reduced teams to! THIS is what you are going to charge people for! If you think I will pay for one day of premium time for THIS kind of service, you are sorely mistaken! And for anyone who is OKAY with it, give your head a shake and think, for the love of MW, think!

Aparrently in the future when stompy robots span the galaxy, you are only allowed up to 3 friends.

Imagine how much could be solved by allowing larger groups into public play.

[Asmudius Heng]

TB Freelancer, on 03 March 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

meh...PGIs mistake was allowing premades and pugs to mix

Well said, the whole post.

I have no problem with 4 man limits, but the problem is that PGI wants everyone in the same bucket for the matchmaker rather than forcing teams to fight.

As many people have been saying there should be a solo queue and an unrestricted queue, but i think the fear is that in an unrestricted queue there would be not enough solo players to fill the spots left in an uneven group.

PGI have dug a hole for themself from the outset with how they implemented the way for people to fight each other ... this Launch module may allow them to change how this behaves but it has been a long time coming.

On top of that the list of things needed to help puggers play as a team is very long:

• looking for lance option to help solo players group up
  
• in game VOIP
  
• commo-rose style system for setting commands and requests etc
  
• the ability to target a friendly mech to see what freaking loadout they have!! (that one annoys me)
  
• Better teamwork bonuses
  
• Better synergies between equipment to encourage teamwork
  
• role warfare that encourages mixed roles for optimal performance
  
• infor warfare beyond line of sight targetting and silly ECM
  
• probably many more

Make it easy for teams to fight and it will happen.
Provide good teamwork tools in and out of drop and people will work together more
Provide the solo playground for those worried about pugstomping

I can live with the 4 man cap and will not complain, but lets not pretend that just opening up groups of any size is going to be awesome for the game either.

[Chemie]

I like how ELO categorizes players into 2800 different skill buckets...then MM just turns that into three buckets for grouping.

You could do this without ELO just by putting anyone with less than 200 games into the loweest bucket and then randomly assign the other two (or go by W/L or something). I mean, they are essentially turning off ELO (actually already have with the 1000 expansion in search) but having only 3 buckets is stupid crazy.

Instead of making you group in increments of 2 to allow for good team assembly, they say 5-12 is "impossible" In stead of having 2 queues (one for pugs only and on mixed), they have 3 by game mode (where two are essentially the same now with base turrets). I mean, there are lots of pugs who would not mind back-filling team slots if they knew both sides had premades...issue before was 2 4-mans and 8 pugs causing imbalance (and lack of ELO at the time)

[S13gtastic]

You want ill fated I'll show you ill fated

[Triordinant]

TB Freelancer, on 03 March 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

meh...PGIs mistake was allowing premades and pugs to mix. Once a lot of groups got a taste of easy wins and the lucrative rewards, why would they want to face a real fight with all the grind in the game? Most chose to sync drop rather than face their peers because easy wins and raking in cbills is more fun than loosing...and don't forget RnR was still around at the start of this mess. Easy wins, big money, low repair bills.

When they introduced 8 mans and 4 man lance limits, it made no difference because the teams shell shocked by their very brief taste of the 8vs8 queue could effortlessly sync drop successfully enough to keep it lucrative and the shift back to fighting pugs started only hours after the 8vs8 queue was introduced. When Elo and 12 mans came out, they could still sync with lower success rates, again lucrative enough to keep trying, by then you could have stuck a fork in the premade queue, it was already done.

While PGI deserves most of the blame for creating a system allowing the situation to occur, the organized groups aren't blameless in this either. They demanded those queues, they said they wanted to fight real opposition, didn't want stupid pugs on their team, but PGI leaving the choice open for them to face their peers or sync drop for easier wins, the vast majority chose to sync drop leaving the group queue they so forcefully demanded to have stillborn.

THIS can't be stressed enough.