174 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

I didn't think my Tbolt was worse than my Atlas for handling...

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Trauglodyte, on 03 March 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I like the Tbolt. But, it is everything that is wrong with MWO now. Or rather, it is everything that should be right about MWO. But, frankenmechs don't work and LRMs are sad sad sad. Btw, for all the people complaining about how fast and nimble heavies are, try running around in a Tbolt and tell me how much better than mediums they are. It handles worse than an Atlas and is much wider than one.

The problem isn't that EVERY heavy or EVERY assault handles better than a medium.

It's that the Victor (which is very meta) comes way too close. And the Highlander plays very agile as well.

There are bad heavies/assaults too.

But yes, creating a situation where Frankenmechs are the way to go would be nice.

[Dymlos2003]

You guys are missing the big picture here. The OP said "MW4 anyone?" Where poptarting is way worse. I got a chuckle out of that.

BTW most of you pilots are boring if this is all you drive.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Dymlos2003, on 03 March 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

You guys are missing the big picture here. The OP said "MW4 anyone?" Where poptarting is way worse. I got a chuckle out of that.

BTW most of you pilots are boring if this is all you drive.

It's not all I drive, but it's always nagging at the end of a match...knowing I could have done better if I'd gone Meta.

And it makes the game mundane.

It also takes away from the mechs in general...this hardpoint system has basically made the quirks and the essense of the mechs irrellevant.

Tiered hardpoints would elevate this game quite a bit, coupled with a revisit to the heat scale, and trying to figure out something to deal with convergence. But that is WAY above PGI's ability.

It's frustrating.

[Trauglodyte]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 March 2014 - 11:31 AM, said:

I didn't think my Tbolt was worse than my Atlas for handling...

When it isn't elited out with 2x base efficiencies, it handles like the Titanic and not in a good way. A 280 puts it at 76 kph but, because of its "ranking", pebbles kill it like an Atlas. Poor lil ****** should be like a pit bull but it is more like a pig short one leg.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 03 March 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

The problem isn't that EVERY heavy or EVERY assault handles better than a medium.

It's that the Victor (which is very meta) comes way too close. And the Highlander plays very agile as well.

There are bad heavies/assaults too.

But yes, creating a situation where Frankenmechs are the way to go would be nice.

Well, the Victor and all other JJ capable mechs have their turn speeds translated to their JJs. This includes the rate WITH efficiencies. And, despite what PGI said at the beginning of the game release prior to even beta (the slower you go, the tighter you can turn), game data and actual experience shows that the faster you go the faster you turn due to engine impact. The thing is, what the JJ turn ratio should be based on is torso twist and not ground speed and it should all be without efficiencies included. Furthermore, that agility that we see in Victors and others is all based on one JJ because the agility effects are lump sums and not incrimental.

Until that changes, the big boys will always have a leg up.

Quote

BTW most of you pilots are boring if this is all you drive.

My typical night goes like this. Load up, pick a non-JJ mech, lose. Change to another non-JJ mech, lose. Get frustrated and jump into my double PPC, AC20 Victor and win. Feel better, choose another mech that doesn't have JJs and lose. Back in the Victor I go. The damned thing is pretty much my Ace Pitcher (ie, the guy that the manager brings in to right the ship after a string of bad beats).

My other typical nights go like this: Load up, pick a mech, land in Canyon Networks/Forrest Colony/Frozen City and lose. Pick my Victor and land in the other maps and I win. Get unlucky in something else in the first three maps and I lose. Stupid maps.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 03 March 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 03 March 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I like the Tbolt. But, it is everything that is wrong with MWO now. Or rather, it is everything that should be right about MWO. But, frankenmechs don't work and LRMs are sad sad sad.

Btw, for all the people complaining about how fast and nimble heavies are, try running around in a Tbolt and tell me how much better than mediums they are. It handles worse than an Atlas and is much wider than one.

The Tbolt doesn't handle bad at all. I think it suffers mostly from Hunchback-ness (taking out the critical side torso = you're practically dead), w/o having a torso twist that's worth speaking of (which is how the Hunchback compensates for this deficiency). The 9SE kinda needs a better yaw/pitch (for looking up and down) because I don't remember it being this bad compared to a Cataphract or a Highlander when trying to fire weapons. It might have something to do with the "cockpit displacement".

Trauglodyte, on 03 March 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

My typical night goes like this. Load up, pick a non-JJ mech, lose. Change to another non-JJ mech, lose. Get frustrated and jump into my double PPC, AC20 Victor and win. Feel better, choose another mech that doesn't have JJs and lose. Back in the Victor I go. The damned thing is pretty much my Ace Pitcher (ie, the guy that the manager brings in to right the ship after a string of bad beats).

My other typical nights go like this: Load up, pick a mech, land in Canyon Networks/Forrest Colony/Frozen City and lose. Pick my Victor and land in the other maps and I win. Get unlucky in something else in the first three maps and I lose. Stupid maps.

Gotta work harder sometimes. Once your brain/skill decays due to tiredness, bad decisions tend to get made. That's probably why I don't field anything worse than a Jenner-K when bored.

[Varent]

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 March 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

To be fair, that thread title has no mention of assault mechs or poptarting. It also doesn't address the issue of pinpoint damage, which is the underlying issue here.

many disagree on what the underlying issue is. Jump Jets in my opinion are the major underlying issue. They are too strong as implimented currently. They have talked on pod casts and in other forms about perhaps lowering the thrust amounts wich seems to indicate they are focusing on this overall.

[KharnZor]

CygnusX7, on 03 March 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

I'm sure it was fun for those involved but to watch that video this game has become rather gay.

The game has become happy?

[Kaeb Odellas]

Varent, on 03 March 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

many disagree on what the underlying issue is. Jump Jets in my opinion are the major underlying issue. They are too strong as implimented currently. They have talked on pod casts and in other forms about perhaps lowering the thrust amounts wich seems to indicate they are focusing on this overall.

Jump Jets only exacerbate the issue. Even if they remove Jump Jets from the game altogether, pinpoint ballistic+PPC builds are still going to dominate because they can destroy vital components faster and easier than lasers and missiles ever could.

The only fix for that is to either eliminate instant pinpoint convergence or convert ballistics and PPCs into DoT or splash weapons. I'd rather they just kill pinpoint, so we can maintain some variety in weapon mechanics.

KharnZor, on 03 March 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

The game has become happy?

No, dude. The game has now become homosexual, which is a terrible thing to be, right guys? Questioning the sexual orientation of a video game is totally relevant and mature contribution to the discourse!

[Chemie]

underlying issue is pin point damage.

Make AC20, gauss and PPC do spread damage (say 50% to where you hit and 50% to surrounding area) and things geta whole lot better quickly.

I can tell you it is not just JJ that is the problem. Any single fix is just a finger in the ****.

[Varent]

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 March 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

No, dude. The game has now become homosexual, which is a terrible thing to be, right guys? Questioning the sexual orientation of a video game is totally relevant and mature contribution to the discourse!

You disturb me.

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 March 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Jump Jets only exacerbate the issue. Even if they remove Jump Jets from the game altogether, pinpoint ballistic+PPC builds are still going to dominate because they can destroy vital components faster and easier than lasers and missiles ever could.

The only fix for that is to either eliminate instant pinpoint convergence or convert ballistics and PPCs into DoT or splash weapons. I'd rather they just kill pinpoint, so we can maintain some variety in weapon mechanics.

I disagree entirely. There are many other ways to change this and to be honest if this was the case everyone would be running the atlas with 2ppc and 2 ac5. They are not. Same could be said for the stalker wich is seen only rarely. Im willing to bet with the upcoming changes (if they did them right) That you will start seeing a lot different meta.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Varent, on 03 March 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

You disturb me.

I'm more disturbed by the fact that someone could interpret that as anything but sarcasm. Says a lot about our society I think.

Varent, on 03 March 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

I disagree entirely. There are many other ways to change this and to be honest if this was the case everyone would be running the atlas with 2ppc and 2 ac5. They are not. Same could be said for the stalker wich is seen only rarely. Im willing to bet with the upcoming changes (if they did them right) That you will start seeing a lot different meta.

The Atlas makes for a poor sniper because its low hardpoints mean has to expose too much of itself to fire. And I see plenty of Stalkers. Mostly Miseries, since they can run Ballistic+PPC builds, with high arm mounts for the PPCs.

[Varent]

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 March 2014 - 09:18 PM, said:

I'm more disturbed by the fact that someone could interpret that as anything but sarcasm. Says a lot about our society I think.



The Atlas makes for a poor sniper because its low hardpoints mean has to expose too much of itself to fire. And I see plenty of Stalkers. Mostly Miseries, since they can run Ballistic+PPC builds, with high arm mounts for the PPCs.

You don't seem them at high elo, They just don't compete. Most people run them for fun. They also die... miserably (baduntish) when someone gets close.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Varent, on 03 March 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

You don't seem them at high elo, They just don't compete. Most people run them for fun. They also die... miserably (baduntish) when someone gets close.

High-Elo players run dumb builds for fun, too. It's not like they only ever play Highlanders, Victors, and CTF-3Ds. Otherwise they would've gotten bored with this game ages ago.

[Varent]

Kaeb Odellas, on 03 March 2014 - 09:32 PM, said:

High-Elo players run dumb builds for fun, too. It's not like they only ever play Highlanders, Victors, and CTF-3Ds. Otherwise they would've gotten bored with this game ages ago.

I... agree? friend of mine runs a 9 flamer hunchback. It makes him giggle Its disturbing.

[DONTOR]

VagGR, on 03 March 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

Highlanders, victors and 3Ds...Jumpjets, PPCs and autocanons. you may as well remove every other weapon and chassis from the game..this is where your game is going..enjoy



And you dont seem willing to fix it...MW4 anyone?

are you saying its like MW,4 or you would rather go back to MW4?
Because if its the latter, MW4 had far more PPC / gauss pinpoint than this game ever could.

[Mystere]

VagGR, on 03 March 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

Highlanders, victors and 3Ds...Jumpjets, PPCs and autocanons. you may as well remove every other weapon and chassis from the game..this is where your game is going..enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZzbig06TDw

And you dont seem willing to fix it...MW4 anyone?

Why are people so worried about a bunch of other people playing a game the way they want to play it. They most certainly do not affect me or my enjoyment of the same game.

And if you are so bored, then take a break -- just like what I am doing right now out here in the Big Easy for Mardi Gras.

But enough of these MWO downers. It's time to go back and join the giant party here at Bourbon Street. There are less than 24 hours left for partying -- outdoors anyway, if you get my drift.

(And just in case someone is wondering, I am only here peeking at the forums to give my liver a break -- a break that is now rightfully ending. Ha!)

[Gambyt]

To those that complain about the ppc/ac builds all i have to say is START USING THAT THING CALLED BRAIN!!!! Yes i am a rookie and haven't played this game for long, but after my first games facing those builds and studying them i decided not to copy them, but to think how to counter them. Yes they pack quite a punch and are easy to maneuver but they have their own weaknesses, if people stopped complaining about how op they are and started to think on how to counter them i bet those builds would start fading away.....

( gets ready to get flamed)

Edit: Typos

Edited by Gambyt, 03 March 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[KharnZor]

Gambyt, on 03 March 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

To those that complain about the ppc/ac builds all i have to say is START USING THAT THING CALLED BRAIN!!!! Yes i am a rookie and haven't played this game for long, but after my first games facing those builds and studying them i decided not to copy them, but to think how to counter them. Yes they pack quite a punch and are easy to maneuver but they have their own weaknesses, if people stopped complaining about how op they are and started to think on how to counter them i bet those builds would start fading away.....

( gets ready to get flamed)

Edit: Typos

You're a new player and have basement lvl Elo so you really have no idea what you are talking about. Might sound mean/arrogant or whatever but thats how it is.

[lsp]

VagGR, on 03 March 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

Highlanders, victors and 3Ds...Jumpjets, PPCs and autocanons. you may as well remove every other weapon and chassis from the game..this is where your game is going..enjoy



And you dont seem willing to fix it...MW4 anyone?

MW4 was a awesome game.