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The 10 Commandments Of Mech Building

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#1 IraqiWalker

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM

Many people have some problems when designing a build for their mech, they either borrow other players' builds, and suffer getting used to a style not theirs, or just work with a build that doesn't work for them and keep trying to adjust to it.

Many a thread is filled with the moans of agonized players living in a miserable existence with mechs they hate or cannot handle properly.

I have had the good fortune of being a design geek and have experimented building mechs of every chassis and variant that range from the downright lulzy (3 SRM6 commando), to the purely competitive; and I have been told by several friends and corp mates that my designs are good. As such I have decided to share what I have learned, and I hope it helps people.

NOTE: I added a section for XL vs. STD after the list as suggested by Sulla.




From my experience so far these are the 10 tips I can give to building a healthy functional mech:

If you follow these 10 points, I can guarantee you will have a good experience with your mech.










1- You need a minimum of 10 heatsinks to operate the mech(anything less and you can't launch), also use Smurfy's to build your mechs first. It's a free service and it will save you millions of C-Bills.




2- UPGRADES: Upgrades are a trade off system. You lose slots (14 for FF and endo, or 3 per DHS) in return for freed up weight. Same thing for XL vs. STD engines. XLs are lighter but take up more slots. (expanded below in the XL Vs. STD section)

Double heatsinks are mandatory for almost every mech save for maybe 3 variants in the entire game (LCT-1V, SDR-5K, Jaeger with 6 MGs and nothing else. I might be forgetting one or two more, but aside from those every mech should have DHS)

Another upgrade that is almost as ubiquitous as DHS is Endo-steel. If a mech is to be upgraded to free up some weight for the cost of 14 slots, Endo steel is the best choice. It frees up exceptionally more weight than FF armor. Whenever possible, endo steel is a good investment. However, it is not as mandatory DHS.




3- Pay attention to how many weapon groups you will end up having once done.

You can easily make all the weapons fire from one group, but you will explode after a couple of shots, from heat damage. Figure out what you are comfortable with (usually L.Mouse Button for left arm, R.Mouse Button for Right arm is simple enough, with a possible third group for torso and head weapons) Some people are only comfortable with using a 2 button mouse, and so 2 groups are optimal for them. While others (like my W.O.W playing friends) can handle an 18 button mouse without developing a new level of consciousness.




4- Pay attention to your role, if you plan on being a long range mech, then you can afford to have XL engines in there, even if they are traditionally not viable (Stalkers should never have XL, unless they are going to be a long range mech.) The reasoning is that you will be far from the main fight and thus won't get hit as often, and need to relocate a lot to provide optimal support. On the other hand, if you are going to be a brawler, then you want a standard engine.

Lights are about the only exception to the rule as you should have XLs in them 90% of the time.




5- Pay attention to the possible heat generation. Smurfy's will always show you the heat efficiency for alpha striking (the game UI does the same thing too) However, Your heat efficiency when firing only 2 medium lasers are very different from firing 2MLs plus 2 ERLLs. So use this heat simulator website as well to test how your weapon groups will actually function with their heat.




6- Crit padding. If you have precious items and weapons in one part of your mech that you would rather not lose to crit hits from things like MGs, throw other things next to them. If all you have is your Gauss Rifle in your side torso with nothing else, then every crit on that side torso is guaranteed to hit the rifle and kill you sooner. On the other hand, if you threw a couple of other items in there (extra crit slots) now your rifle has a less of a chance of getting hit. That's a huge improvement for your life expectancy. Same thing applies to ammo in the Side Torso. A curious exception is Gauss Ammo, since it is inert and does not explode, the ammo takes up a single slot, making it very easy to use for crit padding, and it's a lot better to lose a ton, or half ton of Gauss ammo, than to have the rifle explode inside your mech.




7- Can you do the same with a lighter engine of the same type, and get more heatsinks/ammo in there? If so, do so. Losing 10 Kph from your max speed is insignificant in an assault rigged to be an LRM boat if that means you can stick 2 or 3 more tons of ammo in there. (Try not to drop below 250 rated engines as the heat drop offs become difficult to manage sometimes. this is very chassis specific as not every mech can mount 250 sized engines)




8- Max armor, or as close as possible to max. If you need to shave some armor from your mech, start with the cockpit, NOT the legs. People usually know you have ammo in your legs, so they will go for them HARD. This goes double for Victors as they use JJs to spread damage, and end up putting a lot of damage on their legs, where they have 4 tons of ammo sitting, just waiting to explode. So with Victors you always have max armor on legs. (12 armor on your cockpit is good enough, if you need to shave that much to keep max armor everywhere else, although as noted by Bloodweaver, 16 is the minimum you need to survive 2 Gauss to the cockpit).




9- Artemis is useless on SRM4s and 2s. they already have minimal spread, put it on SRM6 launchers if you've got the slots and weight to afford it. I usually don't but that's more of a personal choice. Artemis is useful on LRMs (in terms of lock on speed, accuracy is not affected on the LRM 5) of all sizes, but I usually prefer having extra tons of ammo to having Artemis (again, personal preference here)




10- Last, but most important. Pay attention to your own (or your client, if you are building for some else) piloting quirks, and the quirks of the mech in question (for example: Centurions don't need max armor on the empty left arm). So doctor the build to fit them better. Meta builds don't mean a thing if you can't use them effectively (or more accurately, PROPERLY).

The 10th rule cannot be emphasized hard enough as it is all-encompassing. For every rule from 1-9 there will be exceptions. Those exceptions exist and they are rule 10.





XL vs. STD






One thing to note about engines: Regardless of their type, if an engine has a rating of 200, it will give the same amount of power regardless of type. Your mech will move and turn just as fast with an XL 200, as it does with a STD 200.

Now, on the engine explanation:

Standard Engines (STD) are available in every mech, they are fitted only in the center torso and as such don't take up any space elsewhere on the mech. That has the added advantage of allowing the mech to soldier on even after losing both side torsos. As such, they are very common in Brawling mechs (mechs built for close range combat and remaining in the fight or extended periods of time). Not to mention brawlers need to learn how to soak up a LOT of damage, and STD engines allow them to last for exceptional periods of time while under fire.

Zombie mechs are a special breed of brawling mechs (yes there are long range versions of them, but zombies were developed mainly for close range combat). They are designed around the concept of losing both arms, and both side torsos while still fighting. The Centurion chassis is one of the most famous/infamous zombie mechs in the game. To give you an idea, a Zombie centurion can continue fighting even while at 8% percent hull integrity (no arms, no side toros, one leg, everything is cored yellow and red, but it still has 2 MLs in the CT).

Such survival potential is not possible with an XL engine.

As such, STD engines are ideal for mechs that fill these roles/requirements. The trade off is that they are heavier than XL engines.


Extra Light Engines (XL) are an upgrade with a trade off: They are lighter so your mech can have bigger ratings for the same weight. For example a STD 220 weighs 14 tons, which is the same weight as an XL 275. That's a 3 Heatsink difference (8 heatsinks in the 220 Vs. 10 in the 275 + 1 internal) plus a staggering speed increase.

The downside is that they occupy 6 slots in the CT (same as a STD engine) plus 3 in each ST (Side torso) MW:O rules state that an engine is completely destroyed if it loses 3 or more slots, as such, losing a side torso is instant death.

XL engines do have a risk with them, however they are designed for a different role than STD engines. While STD engines focus on survival. XL engines allow you to put bigger engines into your mech, as such you would be more maneuverable and more mobile.

XL engines are used in mechs that need to get around the field quickly, while carrying a lot of things (Dakka falls under the all benevolent category of "things") As such, fire support units such as LRM boats, and sniper mechs, or Skirmisher and harasser mechs such as small LRM load mechs, and 2 LL toting mediums and lights engaging at over 500 meters, could definitely use XL engines. Mechs in those roles are not meant to deal with a lot of firepower directed at them, as such they can afford to mount XL engines to allow them to move faster than with a STD engine. (STD 160 weights 7 tons, while an XL 190 weights 6, the 190 allows you to move more than 15 KpH faster, which is a significant difference) On the other hand, those roles are required to move and relocate quickly all over the map to provide support for their team. So the speed is more valuable for them than survival.

Light mechs are an anomaly to this rule, as whether they are brawlers or scouts, or skirmishers, they should be mounting XL engines more than 90% of the time. since they need to save every ton possible, and faster movement can mean the difference between life and death.


Special note: The three slots that an XL engine takes in the STs are not critical slots in the traditional sense. Apparently they do not get hit by critical strikes. The only way to really destroy those 3 slots is to destroy the entire side torso.


EDIT 1: Can't believe I forgot to link to Smurfy's

EDIT 2: Credit to Bloodweaver, Tesunie and Sulla for helping me update and improve the guide. Thank you for the suggestions guys.

EDIT 3: Credit to Rushin Roulette for mentioning Gauss ammo as viable crit padding.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 29 September 2015 - 01:06 AM.


#2 XX Sulla XX

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 03:20 AM

I would add a section explaining more about XLs. I have seen people say "never put an XL in a brawler" but its just not true. Some times in the right mech and play style its better. For example a fast close in jumping Victor works better with an XL. On the other hand my Atlas DDC works better with a standard. The XL choice has a lot to do with play style and mech. :huh:

#3 IraqiWalker

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:27 AM

I do understand the points on the XL for brawlers. These points are general guidelines, unless specific playstyles come in. That's what point 10 is there for.

An example that supports your point is the Battlemaster 1S brawler. Load it up with SRM6s, and LPLs, plus an XL 400.
That beast outmaneuvers almost everything on the field.

#4 oldradagast

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 09:38 AM

Good points all. About the only other build that can function with single heatsinks is one that uses a Gauss Rifle and that's about it, or a Gauss + machine guns - you basically get no heat out of those 2 weapons.

#5 luxebo

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 01:59 PM

There are also some non-competitive builds using SHS with so many SHS that even DHS can't outcool SHS. Basically put, it's usually better to use DHS, but there are a few exceptions with SHS. A rare few. However, DHS costs money, and that's why some choose to run some builds with SHS (like myself, I was running short on cash oftenly before I got my Shadow Hawks. Therefore I had to run some mechs using SHS before upgrading.)

Edited by luxebo, 03 March 2014 - 02:01 PM.


#6 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 03 March 2014 - 05:29 PM

View PostXX Sulla XX, on 03 March 2014 - 03:20 AM, said:

I have seen people say "never put an XL in a brawler" but its just not true.

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

An example that supports your point is the Battlemaster 1S brawler.

View Postluxebo, on 03 March 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

Basically put, it's usually better to use DHS, but there are a few exceptions with SHS.

"There are exceptions to every rule, including and excluding this one."

Doesn't invalidate the rules, just means to keep an open mind.

(I comment here mostly to add this to my followed threads - since the follow thread button does not shift things to the top of this list)

#7 Bloodweaver

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:22 AM

Good guide. There are a few other things worth mentioning, though. I know YOU already know most of the following, but since this is a guide for noobs, I think the following edits are worthwhile:

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

1- You need a minimum of 10 heatsinks to operate the mech(anything less and you can't launch)

250-rated engines have ten internal heat sinks already. Anything below that, is one heat sink per 25 engine rating. So 125 means you get five in the engine, and need to place five more in your 'mech's crit spaces. Additionally, if you have double heat sinks, any heat sinks included in your engine rating (up to 250) are more efficient than those in your 'mech's crit spaces. Engines over 250 can contain an extra heat sink within the engine for every extra 25 rating (275=1 extra, 300=2 extra, etc) but these extra heat sinks over the 250 don't have the the efficiency bonus - they are identical to crit-space heat sinks in performance, they just don't take space.

TL;DR - as a general rule, once you upgrade to DHS, don't let your engine go below 250 if you can help it. Especially if you're new.

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

6- crit padding... If all you have is 3 slots of your XL engine in your side torso with nothing else, then every crit on that side torso is guaranteed to hit the engine and kill you sooner. On the other hand, if you threw a couple of DHS in there (6 extra slots) now your engine has a 1 in 3 chance of getting hit. That's a 300% improvement for your life expectancy. Same thing applies to Gauss rifles in the Side Torso.

True for gauss rifles and all other components, but NOT true insofar as it applies to XL engines. It should be the way you describe, arguably, but it is not. Engines in MW:O do not take critical hits. You have to destroy the torso component entirely in order to kill the engine.

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

7- Can you do the same with a lighter engine of the same type, and get more heatsinks/ammo in there? If so, do so. Losing 10 Kph from your max speed is insignificant in an assault rigged to be an LRM boat if that means you can stick 2 or 3 more tons of ammo in there.

Generally true, but as noted above, try not to dip below a 250 engine once you have DHS installed. You lose heat efficiency faster than you can regain it by adding extra heat sinks the lower you go.

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

8- Max armor, or as close as possible to max. If you need to shave some armor from your mech, start with the cockpit, NOT the legs. People usually know you have ammo in your legs, so they will go for them HARD. This goes double for Victors as they use JJs to spread damage, and end up putting a lot of damage on their legs, where they have 4 tons of ammo sitting, just waiting to explode. So with Victors you always have max armor on legs. (12 armor on your cockpit is good enough, if you need to shave that much to keep max armor everywhere else).

Two issuses here. First is hitboxes. Some 'mech's simply never get legged by virtue of their design. The -4G, -4H, and -4P Hunchbacks, for example. Nobody goes for their legs because they all focus on the hunch instead - it's an easier target. Mediums in general, actually, tend to get legged less than other classes, because 1) their torso armor is lower than heavies and 2) they are easier to hit than lights. Atlas', too, usually get their RT shot at first in an attempt to remove over 50% of their firepower. But in general, yes, try to not to lower your leg armor too much. I lower mine, but I've been playing a while and I never run more than a single ton of ammo per leg. Never double-stuff, that's for Oreos only.

The second issue is regarding head armor. Most 'mechs can get away with 12, 8, or even 0 head armor in normal combat. There are a couple of exceptions, of course. But you can get headshotted very easily if you run less than 16 head armor - 16 armor plus 15 internal structure gives you 31 hit points in your head, i.e., just enough to survive a double gauss sniper's headshot(30 damage). So, judgement call I guess. I usually run 16 except on lights and 'mechs with really small head hitboxes, where I lower it to 8 to protect from the occasional laser raking.

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

9- Artemis is useless on SRM4s and 2s. they already have minimal spread, put it on SRM6 launchers if you've got the slots and weight to afford it. I usually don't but that's more of a personal choice. Artemis is useful on LRMs of all sizes, but I usually prefer having extra tons of ammo to having Artemis (again, personal preference here)

It's still useful on SRM-4, but you're generally better off with a non-Artemis SRM-6 anyway. Artemis is good on all LRMs except LRM-5s, especially if you're boating them it's not worth the weight becaues your accuracy barely improves.

Last thing: endo-steel > ferro-fibrous. Always take endo-steel first if you're going to take one of the two. ALWAYS. Takes the same amount of crit spaces, but frees up even more weight. Only a few mechs can run both and still fit in enough weapons to be effective - lights, zombie Cents, Cicadas... not much else.

EDIT: Also forgot, regarding engines... The higher ratings don't simply mean more speed. They also mean you can turn faster. I'm personally not a fan of the dynamic, but it is what it is. There's a huge difference in agility between a 250 and a 300.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 04 March 2014 - 09:32 AM.


#8 Tesunie

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 09:35 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

6- crit padding. If you have precious items and weapons in one part of your mech that you would rather not lose to crit hits from things like MGs, throw other things next to them. If all you have is 3 slots of your XL engine in your side torso with nothing else, then every crit on that side torso is guaranteed to hit the engine and kill you sooner. On the other hand, if you threw a couple of DHS in there (6 extra slots) now your engine has a 1 in 3 chance of getting hit. That's a 300% improvement for your life expectancy. Same thing applies to Gauss rifles in the Side Torso.


While true for weapons, ammo, sink, etc, the Engine can not (currently) be critted to death. The only way that you can die from engine destruction is to lose a section of your torso with 3 (or more) crit slots of engine crits in it. (This is, unless of course, they recently changed this on me.)

Otherwise, very good points and tips. I like how you make them as good suggestions, and not demands for the most part. I also love how you didn't try to push "meta" into people's faces. Personally, I suck with meta builds, but work well with non-meta builds. (Go figure, right?)

Agreed with Artemis.

Basically, agreed with everything else.

#9 IraqiWalker

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 04:33 PM

Thanks for the tips guys. I will keep updating the original list to accommodate the suggestions.

#10 Tesunie

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Posted 22 April 2014 - 06:37 PM

:angry:

I could post up a few other builds that don't require DHS... but basically, I agree with this. *Places stamp of approval*

You may now continue.

#11 IraqiWalker

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:49 AM

View PostTesunie, on 22 April 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

:P

I could post up a few other builds that don't require DHS... but basically, I agree with this. *Places stamp of approval*

You may now continue.


Thank you XD.

Also, yes, I know that SHS works with some builds, but they are as stated above: usually the exception.

EDIT: I would be curious to see some of those builds, so feel free to post them Tesunie.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 23 April 2014 - 01:50 AM.


#12 Tesunie

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:37 AM

You asked for it! (And yes, SHS based builds that can't/don't need DHS are very rare and are highly unusual. Not to mention, some of them can still work with DHS with no problems.)

Locust 3S, if you go with DHS, you'd have to alter the whole build to accommodate it. Not enough crits. (And it works surprisingly well.)
Cicada 3C, you will overheat, after about 3 minutes of continual fire in the hottest areas of a map. Most likely, you won't be pushing it that hard in a real match. (Only managed to overheat the mech in testing grounds, running around and just shooting like crazy, and it took a long time to do so.)
Basically any dual Gauss build with minimal/no other weapons will require DHS.


All I got that use SHS in my current roster. Though I did have a Stalker build that, for a long time, used SHS before I got off my lazy butt and upgraded it to DHS (with a new build that was completely different). However, I would not say it would not be improved by DHS, which is why I upgraded it. (But it did still work well for a long time.) (Did not get upgraded for a while due to several factors, which need not be mentioned here.)

Don't tempt me to go make more builds that use SHS! Don't make me... :) (<- Joking here. But I probably could create a couple more if I desired to...)

Edited by Tesunie, 23 April 2014 - 10:37 AM.


#13 Buckminster

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 10:53 AM

XL stands for Xtra Light.

And I ran a Shadown Hawk (Gauss + 4 Streaks) that used SHS just fine. But really, it's fair to say that those builds are the rare exception.

Might be worth going into the DHS vs ES debate - especially on energy heavy assault builds, it's tempting to spend the money on ES to free up some tonnage while you save up for DHS, only to have to pay to take ES off when you do.

#14 Tesunie

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:15 AM

View PostBuckminster, on 23 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Might be worth going into the DHS vs ES debate - especially on energy heavy assault builds, it's tempting to spend the money on ES to free up some tonnage while you save up for DHS, only to have to pay to take ES off when you do.


That was what got me on my Stalker build so long ago... except I did the 'math' and figured I could be cooler with SHS and Endo. Sadly, I didn't realize that in engine sinks (that first 10) are true double and not 1.4... so needless to say my math was incorrect... But by the time I figured it out, I had already mastered the Stalker and was working on another mech anyway.

#15 DONTOR

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 11:25 AM

Ill add the SHS mechs that you left out just because.

Commando 2D streak builds can use SHS to great effect.

AC20 raven can be built best using SHS and still has 1.8 heat eff.

3Xgauss illya can only be build using SHS.

Im also really glad you included the section on Artemis, its so true.
Good list!

#16 IraqiWalker

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Posted 23 April 2014 - 04:22 PM

View PostBuckminster, on 23 April 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Might be worth going into the DHS vs ES debate - especially on energy heavy assault builds, it's tempting to spend the money on ES to free up some tonnage while you save up for DHS, only to have to pay to take ES off when you do.


Thanks for correcting the XL mistake.
As far as ES vs. DHS, that's an interesting topic to cover. I'll work on something in regards to that topic.

View PostDONTOR, on 23 April 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Ill add the SHS mechs that you left out just because.

Commando 2D streak builds can use SHS to great effect.

AC20 raven can be built best using SHS and still has 1.8 heat eff.

3Xgauss illya can only be build using SHS.

Im also really glad you included the section on Artemis, its so true.
Good list!


Thank you, glad it was helpful.

#17 Xannatharr

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 01:34 PM

Jesus, this deserves a bump, thanks for putting such outstanding information into one spot!

Xann

#18 IraqiWalker

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 02:41 PM

View PostXannatharr, on 04 June 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

Jesus, this deserves a bump, thanks for putting such outstanding information into one spot!

Xann

My pleasure. This will be getting a tiny update for clan mechs, since most of it still applies, and the engines can't be swapped.

#19 WrathOfDeadguy

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Posted 05 June 2015 - 05:03 PM

Good set of rules. As with anything else, you can start to mess around and get away with some fairly inadvisable stuff once you get your legs under you, but for folks just starting out you could hardly get better advice.

#20 Scar Glamour

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Posted 11 June 2015 - 09:49 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 03 March 2014 - 02:41 AM, said:

9- Artemis is useless on SRM4s and 2s. they already have minimal spread, put it on SRM6 launchers if you've got the slots and weight to afford it. I usually don't but that's more of a personal choice.


I beg to differ. Any SRM-brawler needs Artemis unless it's a Huggin/Oxide that attacks at pointblank range. Attacking anything at 200 m without Artemis even from SRM4 is largely a waste of ammo.

As for putting SRM 6 in place of SRM 4, the damage differe to a single component is largely negligible, while recycling time and heat favours SRM 4.





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