55 replies to this topic

[Sug]

Appogee, on 03 March 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

PS: ''Fire Support'' is the polite term for ''Can't Fight''

LoL

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I recommend the Cataphract line (CTF-3D > CTF-1X > CTF-4x > CTF-2X is my personal ranking of them. Also the hero is solid.)

Most of our heavies right now fall into very specialized support roles. LRM boats, ballistic boats, high speed flankers. Really only the Thunderbolt, Cataphract, and Orion are more all purpose. Of those I find the Cataphract to be the strongest.

The CTF-3D in particular can do a lot of builds. The ever popular 2xPPC + 2xAC/5 poptart build, dual guass, AC/20 brawler, and I'm sure there are plenty more. Jump jets and good speed and armor, too. I don't often pilot my Cataphracts but everything feels a bit easier in them.

I'll never tell you not to buy a specific mech but I would caution you the first purchase. You want something solid you can fall back on if your new mech isn't the best. Take this from a guy who started on Catapults and then picked up the Dragons afterwards. I love those mechs, but I wish I had the Cataphracts first, lol.

[Modo44]

Buckminster, on 03 March 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

But honestly, I'd think it'd be situational. Sure, the 'phract has an extra 5 tons, but that comes out in the wash.

Add high mobility combined with firepower while still fitting standard engines, the new hitboxes that made arms into shields, and two high torso energy hardpoints. The entire package is very strong. Good Orion builds can top that, but they have mobility and size issues, and no 3D to unlock.

[Just wanna play]

Cataphract: armor (center torso can take overall 6 more damage more then a jagers ct before being destroyed) and has arms to block torso with, helping it soak damage. in the case of 3D, jump jets. also can see further left and right due to cockpit design, also can keep up with fast movers more easily since arms and torso moving together vs just the torso
Jager: higher mounted main weapons and cockpit for sniping over cover, lots of b hard points and removed actuators for more room for them

do note they have fairly opposite hard point heights. Cataphracts have some what low guns and high energy hard points on side torso (which is nice to shoot over cover while your brawling weapons on arms are simply shooting straight at things), jagers have low energy hard points and high up ballistic and/or missiles

I say get cataphract as your FIRST heavy, they have many good points about them, especially 3D, can mount big ct gun, then a gun on the arm, then has some high mounted energy weapons, but then arm mounted energy weapons for brawling, not to mention jjs and room for a big(ish) engine, helping you know what you like best, and if you decide you wanna solely focus on long range fire support possible go jager (or phract 4x, quad ac/5s on that thing really is throwing up rainbows fun)

Edited by Just wanna play, 03 March 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Mott]

I got the Ilya to meta with... but have found that I really enjoy the 3D with AC10 and 3x ERL. It runs very cool, fast and if i don't play stupid i can get into small brawls and still last the match to end with 500ish damage and a couple kills.

If i spot a light trying to sneak up on or around me, grouping those 3 ERLs into one of his legs sure puts a bit of panic into him. That's probably my favorite feature of that build.

[Buckminster]

Modo44, on 03 March 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Add high mobility combined with firepower while still fitting standard engines, the new hitboxes that made arms into shields, and two high torso energy hardpoints. The entire package is very strong. Good Orion builds can top that, but they have mobility and size issues, and no 3D to unlock.

I guess I just don't see it. The Jagers high torso twist makes up for the fact that the arms don't move. The 'phract has higher engine caps, but with the increased weight it only reaches .2 kph faster. One model has jump jets, but that's one chassis - not enough to say "phracts are more mobile than jagers". On that same theory, the Firebrand has a high engine cap - a full 6.5 kph faster - but I would never say "jagers are faster than 'phracts" just because one variant is.

Again, I'm not saying the 'phract is bad, just that I don't think it's a clear cut case of being better than the jagers.

Appogee, on 03 March 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

PS: ''Fire Support'' is the polite term for ''Can't Fight''

I'm sure there are plenty of Jager pilots out there with screenshots of high kill/high damage games that would indicate otherwise.

[Just wanna play]

buck minster do bear in mind and arm and torso both moving in the same direction at the same time, each 50 degrees to the left for example, is faster then just a torso moving 100 degrees to the left, and arms move faster then torsos to begin with (less weight) granted i guess that means they are more maneuverable, not necessarily more mobile, but it helps

and im guessing by "can't fight" he meant exchanging hits instead of just...seal clubbing? idk

Edited by Just wanna play, 03 March 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[Modo44]

Buckminster, on 03 March 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I guess I just don't see it. The Jagers high torso twist makes up for the fact that the arms don't move.

Even with the recent hitbox changes, you can reliably hit a Jager's side torso from almost all sides. You can also reliably hit the Catapult's CT from almost all sides. Those mechs are designed to be easy kills. Conversely, you can reliably shield a Cataphract's entire torso with the current arm hitboxes. That is a huge deal in any serious fight.

[luxebo]

Another mech also similar to a Heavy (though actually an Assault) is the Victor, which a lot of builds work similar to a Heavy and general aspect of it works similar to a Heavy. It has the capability of all 3 things mentioned, plus has JJs if you want to (best to, but not mandatory.)

[Buckminster]

Modo44, on 03 March 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

Even with the recent hitbox changes, you can reliably hit a Jager's side torso from almost all sides. You can also reliably hit the Catapult's CT from almost all sides. Those mechs are designed to be easy kills. Conversely, you can reliably shield a Cataphract's entire torso with the current arm hitboxes. That is a huge deal in any serious fight.

Maybe it's just a matter of ELO and time of day, because I'm not seeing it. That said, I have that pug with a helmet for a reason - da pug lyfe is the only one for me. :-) Maybe it is more of a liability in competitive play.

[Eaerie]

i put my vote in for a jager. between the varient you can have a wide range of loadouts and depending on the loadout go from a fragile glass cannon to something a lot more survivable that still packs a punch (depending on your taste)

[Koniving]

First? Orion. No need for the XL engine that almost every other heavy mech seems to require.

[Redshift2k5]

Koniving, on 03 March 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

First? Orion. No need for the XL engine that almost every other heavy mech seems to require.

I'm still running XLs in mine. Can't wait for Clan XLs >.>

[Koniving]

I found them to be too fragile for my fighting style (I treat my Orion like a fast Atlas; get in, brawl, kill, move on) with XL engines.

I've actually begun phasing the XL engines out of the one Orion that did use it.

[Ace Selin]

Cataphract or Orion as both are heavy hittters, that can carry a good mixed weapon loadout for medium to close in fighting.

[Modo44]

Buckminster, on 03 March 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

Maybe it's just a matter of ELO and time of day, because I'm not seeing it.

More like a matter of ignoring facts. Have a nice life.

[Kaosity]

Buckminster, on 03 March 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I'm sure there are plenty of Jager pilots out there with screenshots of high kill/high damage games that would indicate otherwise.

The JM6 1000 point damage club...Jager 1000+ pts

[Buckminster]

Modo44, on 03 March 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

More like a matter of ignoring facts. Have a nice life.

Wow, seriously?

I'm not trying to ignore facts, I just want you to give me some facts. And just saying "'phracts are better" doesn't actually qualify as a fact.

But whatever. Have a nice life yourself.

Edited by Buckminster, 04 March 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[YT Shidy]

Rouken, on 03 March 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

The ever popular 2xPPC + 2xAC/5 poptart build

Say no to poptart, please.
This is currently destructing the game.

[Mott]

xXShidy06Xx, on 04 March 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:

Say no to poptart, please.
This is currently destructing the game.

I think CW is going to go a long way to rebalancing this aspect of the game. Few units are going to be able to hold all the planets/facilities required to get good di$count$ on ALL the best weaponry. So the loadouts are going to start looking more stock... 3 and 4 weapon types with only one of them being able to deliver primary weapon damage levels.