59 replies to this topic

[xXBagheeraXx]

You know something else? I didnt notice nearly as many poptarts back when ballistics and ppcs had a slight delay on firing....

Just saying....

[KharnZor]

Dirus Nigh, on 05 March 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Then make both PPCs and lasers have the charge mechanic, they use capacitors too.

Is this true? i got no idea

[o0cipher0o]

xXBagheeraXx, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

You know something else? I didnt notice nearly as many poptarts back when ballistics and ppcs had a slight delay on firing....

Just saying....

I didn't see nearly as many ACs neither. But it was frustrating to press the button and wait half a second till the bullet came out. Also, at the time, PPCs where total scrap (high heat and slow speed), and jumpjetting mechs capable of mounting usefull poptarting weapons wheren't as many as now.

However, i hoped that this thread would have stayed as focused as possible on the giving out suggestions. It's completely useless to just come and yell "i don't like gauss, i don't like PGI's balancing, screw MWO!" and then leave without any constructive opinion. Please try to be mature, ad use the brain that everyone was given to keep the thread clean and don't turn it in the usual QQ fest.

As for the charge mechanic, yeah, it may be unrealistic, but remember that we are speacking about a weapon that delivers 15 points of pinpoint damage at 660 meter, at 2000m/s(or 1700? Can't remember), with almost no heat build up. We can't just increase the cooldown as someone suggested, it would remain a browling weapon, less viable than others, but still usable.

Edited by o0cipher0o, 06 March 2014 - 01:37 AM.

[John MatriX82]

GR should only explode when charged, but imho the thing once charged should stay charged undefinitely; this way you get a huge penalty if the thing gets critted while you're running around with it charged..

[Meteor Hammer]

I was recently reading the "Blood of Kerensky" trilogy. I don't know if this was in the TT lore, or an artistic device, but during one of Phelan's many mech fights with Vlad, Vlad was running a mech (Gladiator) with at least 1 gauss rifle (maybe 2). The Gladiator could not alpha all of its' weapons due to the massive power drain of firing a gauss rifle.

I was wondering whether an engine power output level would solve both gauss rifles and boating. If all weapons had a power drain on the engine, and the engine only produces a certain amount of power, you cannot fire for example more than 2 PPCs at a time, or if you fire a gauss rifle, you cannot fire anything else along with it.

Meteor Hammer

[Lightfoot]

PGI pushed the Gauss nerf out with too little testing and the version they used in Duke Nukem had like a 5 or 6 second hold the charge ability. That would be okay and reasonable. One second is too brief to be allowed to aim. Wasn't the point too just de-sync it from PPCs?

Since then I haven't bought any new Mechs and before that I bought almost every new Mech that was released. 3x Highlanders with Metal, 3x Victors with Dragonslayer, 3x Orions with Protector, 3x Trebuchet, 3x Cataphract with Muromets, 3x Centurion with YLW, 5x Awesome with Pretty Baby. However once the Gauss Rifle De-sync and Ghost Heat came out most of my mechs lost their individual capabilities and there are no new mechs that can do anything different from what I already have.

So as I said, I stopped using Mechlab and stopped buying anything because there is no longer any need. PGI has the Mechs and Mechlab in lockdown mode with their oppressive nerfing of the game since last June I guess it was. Before then MWO was great and just kept getting better.

The only issue was the Mechs were too weak for 2x recharge on weapons. Speaking of which the Gauss Rifle is normally balanced by having a 25-33% longer recharge rate than the AC20 class of short range weapons. It was goofy to have them set at 4 seconds each.

[Ngamok]

I find no problem playing the Gauss. I have been running with it in my VTR-9K and I can brawl and snipe with it just fine. Brawling take some practice but it can be done.

Those who cry about it just want a low heat point and click twitch weapon.

[Davers]

Would a weapon module that doubled (or tripled) the hold time, but increased the explosion damage by 3-5 points 'fix' the gauss?

[Lightfoot]

MWO had a chance to be a good Battletech based MechWarrior game before the Gauss de-sync and Ghost Heat nerfs. But these nerfs limit Mech functionality and Mechlab functionality too much. It's why MWO is the ballistic favoring GunWarrior game where only Ballistic heavy mechs compete. Everyone ooohh'ed and ahhh'ed when they saw those 4 ballistic slots on the Banshee because they know MWO is GunWarrior. And so does PGI. But that's not MechWarrior.

In true MechWarrior the three weapon types are equally viable, so an AWS-9M with 3xERPPC's works fine and is balanced and a Gauss Rifle is no big deal. Certainly these weapons are nothing to whine and cry about when they function normally. That they needed heavy nerfing in MWO points to a larger problem that the Mechs are just too weak to the damage from 2xrecharge even with 2x armor. That shouldn't be a surprise because this doesn't make the Mechs any stronger.

The end result of nerfing all the weapons is that new Mechs can do nothing new so they are no longer needed and this makes Mechlab unneeded since few players buy new Mechs. That's bad news for everyone including PGI who just released a 95 ton Jagermech to get around their own nerfs.

My advice is just stop it now and restore Battletech balance so that Mechlab will have a use again. Get rid of DHS 1.4, Ghost Heat, and the Gauss de-sync. Then make the Mechs tougher as needed for the greater damage that will occur. Then all the Mechs function equally well regardless of hardpoints and weight class. Then you sell a lot more Mechs and upgrades and paint-jobs, etc. While on the field of play you would see a much greater diversity of Mechs and tactics. Now think of the ennui of keeping MWO as it is.

[Malleus011]

Ngamok, on 06 March 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

I find no problem playing the Gauss. I have been running with it in my VTR-9K and I can brawl and snipe with it just fine. Brawling take some practice but it can be done.

Those who cry about it just want a low heat point and click twitch weapon.

No, I want to be able to run Canon builds that actually work correctly, without macros or other crap. But PGI says no.

I miss Battletech.

[o0cipher0o]

The root problem at the base of the overall balance issues is always the same: slow cooldown rate and high heat cap, encouraging high damage pintopint alphas.
If the heat system worked the other way, with fast cooldown and low heat cap, people would have been forced to use chainfiring and group firing, leaving the alphas as the finishing shot, to use only in desperate/really advantageous situations.
This way many of the current problems, like low TTK anda mechs balancing, would have been non existent, or at least way less pressing.

[Ngamok]

Malleus011, on 07 March 2014 - 06:02 AM, said:

No, I want to be able to run Canon builds that actually work correctly, without macros or other crap. But PGI says no.

I miss Battletech.

The VTR-9K comes with a Gauss sir which is why I am running around with it. Granted the other weapons aren't stock.

[Alex Warden]

k, since this is the 100´s or so thread on this topic, i guess i can state this another time :

i only recently started playing the gauss again, didn´t try it since the adjustments it took (and a while before)...

gotta say, after all the crying about it, i was POSITIVELY surprised on how well it performs... currently my most favoured weapon... not only but also BECAUSE it´s way more fun, now that it takes some effort... so much for that...

this being said, i woulnd´t mind if they´d make it less vulnerable to explosions now (i like the idea of "only explosive when charged", maybe from the moment you start to charge it until a few seconds after the shot, so maybe a timeframe of about 5 seconds in which is explosive? ), that bandaid "balancing" workaround seems pretty unnecessary now that 80% of players seem to be unable to shoot it anyway

Edited by Alex Warden, 07 March 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[o0cipher0o]

Alex Warden, on 07 March 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

k, since this is the 100´s or so thread on this topic, i guess i can state this another time :

i only recently started playing the gauss again, didn´t try it since the adjustments it took (and a while before)...

gotta say, after all the crying about it, i was POSITIVELY surprised on how well it performs... currently my most favoured weapon... not only but also BECAUSE it´s way more fun, now that it takes some effort... so much for that...

this being said, i woulnd´t mind if they´d make it less vulnerable to explosions now (i like the idea of "only explosive when charged", maybe from the moment you start to charge it until a few seconds after the shot, so maybe a timeframe of about 5 seconds in which is explosive? ), that bandaid "balancing" workaround seems pretty unnecessary now that 80% of players seem to be unable to shoot it anyway

Exactly what i said in the OP. The wepon is in a good spot right now, at the very least it could use a slight increase in the charge holdin time. The only problem is that vestigial explosion mechanic, that in the current implementation is a way too big handicap.

[Whois9876]

I agree with the post that the gauss rifle should not explode if we are going to charge the rifle before shooting.

[Bront]

The gauss being all 'splody is fine. I think it adds flavor the gun.

I think the stay charged time needs a slight buff, and the cool down time could use a slight decrease.

That said, I hate the charge up mechanic. Annoying and turns a canon all around weapon into something that's hard to mix with other weapons.

[Khobai]

The charge-up mechanic made no sense.

If you wanted to make gauss a sniper weapon the easiest way to do it was give it a minimum range.

If both gauss and ppc had minimum ranges, now you have a huge deadzone where you cant do damage.

[AC]

You should be able to hold the charge as long as you want, but the penalty should be heat. As you hold the charge, the capacitors give off heat. It would allow it to be a snipers weapon again, and it would fix most of the complaining with it. The complaints are legit too.... Mostly you can't tell when it has recycled or when it is charged/lost charge in the heat of battle. The indicators are incredibly poor. Allowing you to hold the charge would fix that.

Also, it should only explode when charged.

[Roland]

xXBagheeraXx, on 05 March 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

You know something else? I didnt notice nearly as many poptarts back when ballistics and ppcs had a slight delay on firing....

Just saying....

PPC's and ballistics never had a delay on firing.
For SOME players, with poor pings, there was a delay in that it took a while to get confirmation of a shot being fired from the server.. But this actually applied to all weapons, including lasers and missiles.

The reason why PPC's and AC's weren't widely used back then was because the netcode was terrible, and made hit detection a joke.

[Corvus Antaka]

it has 0 heat and one of the longest ranges ingame.