36 replies to this topic

[Mechrophilia]

I admit, it's beyond entertaing to watch a defense turret leg a spider, but they also seem to make many games drag on a tad too long. Not a monumental issue, but worth mentioning in the feedback thread.

[Darth Futuza]

They have a bit too much armor/health for my tastes.

[jackal40]

Darth Futuza, on 05 March 2014 - 07:35 PM, said:

They have a bit too much armor/health for my tastes.

Also, seems like they have unlimited LRM ammo and can fire lasers without overheating and near perfect accuracy.

I'd prefer to see them much less accurate and a lot less LRM ammo (say enough for 4 volleys).

[BLOOD WOLF]

Mechrophilia, on 05 March 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

I admit, it's beyond entertaing to watch a defense turret leg a spider, but they also seem to make many games drag on a tad too long. Not a monumental issue, but worth mentioning in the feedback thread.

the game match is 15 minutes, battles should be longer.

[Amarock]

Command Console ... an idea.

Can hack turrets and turn them to your team, or deactivate them or improve their accuracy (if they are in your team)

[BLOOD WOLF]

the command console is just a battlefield tactical command center.

[Amarock]

Just now, it is useless ...

[Appogee]

Yeah, it gets a bit tedious plinking away at the turrets so that you can finally engage with the last remaining assault who has retreated to his base. I imagine that if you're in a damaged Light, the turrets could actually kill you before you even get to engage with that guy.

So I agree the turrets are a little OP at the moment relative to the Mechs.

By the way, can I please get whatever material is used on the closed turrets, as armor for my Mech?

[J0anna]

Actually I'm going to disagree here, I think the turrets are great and absolutely strong enough. Pushing requires much more effort now and there is actually a tactical decision now as to when to attack and when to fall back. I just watched a team climb from 5 down to one down by falling back to their base and working together. The attacking tea then fell back (as they were one up) and the defending team had to push (the defending team was all assaults and heavies while the attacking team was mixed). The game came down to the wire and the attacking team won by one.

Some might consider that a bad game, but it was very close and enjoyable to play. Turrets add a new dimension, and I think it's a very good idea. For those who don't like it and just want to kill mechs quickly, play skirmish.

[Lt Badger]

Moenrg, on 06 March 2014 - 05:03 AM, said:

Actually I'm going to disagree here, I think the turrets are great and absolutely strong enough. Pushing requires much more effort now and there is actually a tactical decision now as to when to attack and when to fall back. I just watched a team climb from 5 down to one down by falling back to their base and working together. The attacking tea then fell back (as they were one up) and the defending team had to push (the defending team was all assaults and heavies while the attacking team was mixed). The game came down to the wire and the attacking team won by one.

Some might consider that a bad game, but it was very close and enjoyable to play. Turrets add a new dimension, and I think it's a very good idea. For those who don't like it and just want to kill mechs quickly, play skirmish.

skirmish is NOT an option, serveral times the whole team was searching last one downpowered enemy for few minutes until the time was up WITHOUT option to end the mach earlier by caping enemy base
can you imagine this? seven assaults/heavies sneakes on alpine peaks?

in your game the attacking team could WAIT to win and not to go in range of your turrets

it´s frustrating, since skirmish and now with the turrets is WAITING and do nothing a good tactical option to win or disrupting another team and hold few mechs in match, but i and few others want to PLAY and have a chance to win by PLAYING and not WAITING

the team who is waiting wins.... great idea for an online multiplayer game

Edited by Lt Badger, 06 March 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[L A V A]

I think they should be scaled back to a max of 4... 2 lrm and 2 laser.

At the moment they are dominating some maps, causing teams (even in league games) to camp defense and will only encourage even more sniping.

The symbol on the minimap needs to be reduced as well. A small double diamond or box is good enough.

[J0anna]

Lt Badger, on 06 March 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

skirmish is NOT an option, serveral times the whole team was searching last one downpowered enemy for few minutes until the time was up WITHOUT option to end the mach earlier by caping enemy base
can you imagine this? seven assaults/heavies sneakes on alpine peaks?

in your game the attacking team could WAIT to win and not to go in range of your turrets

it´s frustrating, since skirmish and now with the turrets is WAITING and do nothing a good tactical option to win or disrupting another team and hold few mechs in match, but i and few others want to PLAY and have a chance to win by PLAYING and not WAITING

the team who is waiting wins.... great idea for an online multiplayer game

I've played dozens of skirmish matches and find that (one person runs off and hides) to be the exception, not the rule. And yes, playing assault now makes you have to think - guess that's why this is a tactical shooter - you need tactics to win.

I'm tired of matches where one lance leeroy's off and gets wiped out making the rest of the match a forgone conclusion. At least now there's another option.

[Grendel408]

Everyone is aware the damage resistance is 99% when in cover... these are pop-up "Calliope-styled" turrets meant to deter Mechs... Once they reveal themselves they are just as vulnerable as the Mech standing next to you. Turrets add a whole new level of tactics to use in Assault Mode... adapt or die I say... use them to your advantage, but also don't fall prey to them either.

[Lt Badger]

xLAVAx, on 06 March 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

I think they should be scaled back to a max of 4... 2 lrm and 2 laser

... and armorred like locust, not like atlas
.

xLAVAx, on 06 March 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

At the moment they are dominating some maps, causing teams (even in league games) to camp defense and will only encourage even more sniping.

right and it makes simply no fun

xLAVAx, on 06 March 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

The symbol on the minimap needs to be reduced as well. A small double diamond or box is good enough.

good idea

Moenrg, on 06 March 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

I've played dozens of skirmish matches and find that (one person runs off and hides) to be the exception, not the rule. And yes, playing assault now makes you have to think - guess that's why this is a tactical shooter - you need tactics to win.

for many times i played skirmish it was a rule and thats the reason why i preffer to play assault but with so strong base defence you are often just waiting to win because you get killed by turrets if you try to cap

[Koniving]

jackal40, on 05 March 2014 - 09:21 PM, said:

Also, seems like they have unlimited LRM ammo and can fire lasers without overheating and near perfect accuracy.

I'd prefer to see them much less accurate and a lot less LRM ammo (say enough for 4 volleys).

This has been a personal complaint. I think 3 tons of ammo, and ability to overheat or occasional pauses to allow the heat to cool when too hot.

Before the patch turrets were too weak. Now they are a tad too strong. But that wouldn't be so bad if ECM could prevent them from tracking you and/or ECM allies at certain ranges.

Lt Badger, on 06 March 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

for many times i played skirmish it was a rule and thats the reason why i preffer to play assault but with so strong base defence you are often just waiting to win because you get killed by turrets if you try to cap

Perhaps change "capture base" to "destroy base" and the turret health won't be so bad.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Lt Badger, on 06 March 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

right and it makes simply no fun

That's one opinion....why do folks always state their opinions as if they are facts?

Lt Badger, on 06 March 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

... and armorred like locust, not like atlas

You know they are pretty quick to burn down once they pop up. And using teamwork one can routinely trigger them by getting within range to activate them while using terrain to prevent them from hitting you, while having a parter(s) burn them down easily and safely from outside of 450m. I know it's a tough concept for some players, but ultimately just shows why teamwork has always been the most OP thing in this game.

Lt Badger, on 06 March 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

for many times i played skirmish it was a rule and thats the reason why i preffer to play assault but with so strong base defence you are often just waiting to win because you get killed by turrets if you try to cap

Wow. My anedoctal evidence is quite different from yours. In the hundreds upon hundreds of skirmish matches I've played in such a limited time, my experience with the "run and hide" crowd is also the rare occurrence. Maybe a handful of times total?

Plus it is our own fault that we the player base screamed for a TDM. And lastly, whatever's wrong with Skirmish has no bearing on whether or not turrets on assault really work so the pointed comparison you are trying to make it patently moot. An interesting idea, but just not a logical argument against turrets in Assault.

Edited by Lukoi, 06 March 2014 - 12:47 PM.

[ShinVector]

My understanding is turrets is incomplete. PGI mention stuff like generators before... So I believe their destruction would disable turrets.

[Lt Badger]

Lukoi, on 06 March 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

That's one opinion....why do folks always state their opinions as if they are facts?

it isn´t fact and it was not my purpose, but i´m not allone with this opinion


what i see is:

before turrets: both team were fighting each other, tactically or not, either one as attacker and one as defender, or both as attacker, mostly in the same place of map but with variations, flanking, playing


with turrets:

both team are waiting for few minutes, sniping each other but stay close to own turrets, nobody wants to really attack in the first 10 min of game and in the last 5 min both teams try to get some kills and win at timeout with those kills.

or, but less often
both teams are fighting in the middle of the map and the survivors are simply too damaged. if you are the last one you can only be killed by enemy team, killed by turrets because you are sitting duck without armor and/or weapon, or you hide and wait until the timer is out because enemy mechs are perharps also to damaged and have no chance to cap your base without get killed by your turrets.

or
both teams are fighting, the team with more kills falls back and is sniping and waiting and wins by kills after timeout


or, VERY rare
one team go together and work together, breaks through enemys defence and win by capping or eliminating enemy mechs.
it is very interesting and funny game if the another team also work together, but defending team has advantage in this situation playing 17 vs 12


my own conclusion/ experience

turrets are interesting try to bring the team together, but is not really working and you have much less options to operate as premade lance if the other teammates and your enemies are hiding, waiting and do nothing and you can´t bring your team to move, because they want to defend. the maches are more like phoney war 1939

it is frustraiting if your own turret kills the enemy you fighting with and you get less points, also if you´ve done good job fighting enemy human- piloted mechs, you are the last one who can take your team to win and you get killed by computer- steered turret if you try to cap enemy base with your damaged mech

my sugestion is to make assault mode with, and without turrets and let the user deside what they want to play

Lukoi, on 06 March 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

You know they are pretty quick to burn down once they pop up. And using teamwork one can routinely trigger them by getting within range to activate them while using terrain to prevent them from hitting you, while having a parter(s) burn them down easily and safely from outside of 450m. I know it's a tough concept for some players, but ultimately just shows why teamwork has always been the most OP thing in this game.

sure, that works, but in the heat of the battle with some defending enemies and when yout team don´t work together it is not so easy...

Lukoi, on 06 March 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Wow. My anedoctal evidence is quite different from yours. In the hundreds upon hundreds of skirmish matches I've played in such a limited time, my experience with the "run and hide" crowd is also the rare occurrence. Maybe a handful of times total?

like i said, at the most times i played skirmish it was often "seek and hide" and i´ve missed the option to turn defeat into victory, or more to end the match before timeout by capping, i´ll test it, maybe it is like you say now

Edited by Lt Badger, 07 March 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[Evil Ed]

Turrets actually limits the realistic tactic decisions to make. If ahead on kills, just fade back to base and get extra support from the turrets. If behind on kills? Well, your enemy will stay close to cap and you will get rained a soon as any of your teammates triggers the turrets. Assault 12-mans is pretty much unplayable on the smaller maps, no-one moves and everyone boats sniper weapons.
This also means that the pug lottery is much more important. Will they pull back when ahead by kills? Will they, when you are behind, go too close and trigger the turrets and hurt the whole team? Remember, a turret is trigged within 450 meters, but it will fire LRMs out to 1000 meters if anyone is spotting for them. Skilled players ability to influence on the match result has been limited, they now depend on not being on the side with the most stupid pugs. Lucky with getting first kill, lucky with the pugs, that is what assault is about now.

[L A V A]

Evil Ed, on 07 March 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

Skilled players ability to influence on the match result has been limited, they now depend on not being on the side with the most stupid pugs.

But... that's always been the case.