13 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

And dang. People may mock La Malinche's hard points (they are overly limiting), and it's ugly as sin...... BUT.....

The Atlas is a total Glass Mech in comparison. No matter how I twist.... snatch goes that right torso, first serious fight, every time. Seems like the only way (and only way I see) Atlases standing up is as part of a Atlas Lance where they can concentrate their massive firepower. But,, solo, PUGing? Totally fragile. I forgot how fragile, because aside from an occasional Sniper-RS build, I don't generally drive Atlases, as they are just too bloody slow and clumsy.

La Malinche? Natural born brawler. I have yet to have a "high scoring" match (800 plus) but 500+ is pretty consistent, and since my first handful of matches, have seldom had less than 2 kills. But the hallmark of the mech is that even with a 380XL, it takes damage that the Atlas can only dream of. Which is good, since realistically, you can only lay out maybe 2/3 the firepower.

the Pros?
- Fantastic hitboxes, possibly the best in an Assault, but definitely on par with the Battlemaster and Victor.
- High speed an maneuverability (for an Assault)
-Most builds have good heat endurance.

the Cons?
- Well.... looks horrible.
- VERY limited hard points. One can make a decent build, but very limiting, and will never match the other Assaults for raw firepower.
- Lower slung arms than the Atlas. Would rate them on par with the Cataphract. So if you don't mind them, don't worry, but if you want to snipe..... not recommended.

the Verdict?
- Eminently capable Endurance Brawler. Only use a Standard Engine if you want an AC20, or for some reason use the Missiles (with a single hardpoint only, I tend to ignore them). The mech protects it's XL torsos better than most Assaults tank with a Standard, so use that XL to free up tonnage for big guns, and keep that speed up, as your turn rate and twist speed are critical to maximizing the chassis survivability. While not an upper tier Hero, if controllable heat brawling and epic toughness are your style, it might well be worth considering. If you prefer massive Alphas, or Sniper Fights, I would strongly recommend against.

*majority of Testing was done using this Build: Mictlantecuhtli

[SgtMagor]

yup yup, big, ugly, fast assault bullet sponge.

[InRev]

Out of curiosity, how do you like the pulses? I haven't used them yet because I am sceptical but I'd love to know your opinion.

[Tahribator]

The reason you lose your side so fast in Atlases is everyone worth their salt knows that without their ballistics side, the Atlases are basically just mildly harmful damage sponges. It is a known weakness and people exploit it. As soon as people have more experience with Banshees(when standard variants hit the battlefield) you can be damn sure that people will find similar ways to neuter them quickly(like LT of 3E or RT of 3S). Until then, enjoy your La Malinche.

BTW what's with 6 tons of AC10 ammo in your build(I think you meant to put LBX10 ammo, considering you have an LBX mounted)? At 2.5 seconds of cooldown per shot, that means 220 seconds of continious shooting which you're guaranteed not to pull that off. Also ammo in CT ‎ಠ_ಠ

[Bishop Steiner]

InRev, on 08 March 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Out of curiosity, how do you like the pulses? I haven't used them yet because I am sceptical but I'd love to know your opinion.

didn't think I would like them, but in a brawler role, surprisingly well. I found if I did my part, in two alpha volleys, I had pretty well opened up whatever I was shooting, and then the LB-X shredded the gooey center. What sold me was my first match with it, got Canyon Network. Saw one of my teammates was solo, and ran into a full enemy lance. Went to see if I could help, got there with him running like a scalded cat, and the 4 enemy mechs having only one with any damage at all, and it was very superficial. Well, "fast" is relative, and no way I was gonna be able to retreat, so I figured I'd go down swinging. 2 volleys and the Jagerbombs left torso popped, 2 more volleys killed the Griffin. Now I had an Orion and an Atlas to go, stripped the RT off the Atlas in no time, turned, RT cored out the Orion, pop, dead, turned, and finished the Atlas.

432 damage. 4 kills, on nearly pristine mechs. I liked it. I was orange everywhere, and had my rear rt breached.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tahribator, on 08 March 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

The reason you lose your side so fast in Atlases is everyone worth their salt knows that without their ballistics side, the Atlases are basically just mildly harmful damage sponges. It is a known weakness and people exploit it. As soon as people have more experience with Banshees(when standard variants hit the battlefield) you can be damn sure that people will find similar ways to neuter them quickly(like LT of 3E or RT of 3S). Until then, enjoy your La Malinche.

BTW what's with 6 tons of AC10 ammo in your build(I think you meant to put LBX10 ammo, considering you have an LBX mounted)? At 2.5 seconds of cooldown per shot, that means 220 seconds of continious shooting which you're guaranteed not to pull that off. Also ammo in CT ‎ಠ_ಠ

1) You miss the point. The Atlas gets neutered because it has small arms which do NOTHING to protect it's side torso htiboxes. Believe it or not, there is no "mysticism" to shooting a mech. Torsos are largely torsos, and the great big weapon barrels tell you which ones can hurt you. The trick is hitting those, which some mechs (Griffin, Victor, Battlemaster, Firestarter and especially the ShadowHawk) are boss at avoiding because of comparativley small ST side torso hit boxes and massive arms protecting them. Add in any modicum of twist speed and you spread the damage.

THAT is what the Atlas cannot do. Victor has been out ages. Battlemaster and Shadowhawk quite some time. Only time they die fast is mass focus fire or bad pilots. Any pilots worth their salt sell their limbs and side and rear armor for all it's worth.

2) That's 5 tons. Why? Because I have found when I ran it with 3, and an AMS, I ran out of ammo more than I liked. And the AMS has largely been superfluous. Unfortunately, since I also am short on crits, adding a 4th ton of ammo meant I had 1 ton, 1 crit left. Could have added a medium or small in the head (and with the small restored .5 tons leg armor) but just can't bring myself to do it with how stupid it looks...plus the added heat is not worth the small damage boost. With an XL, when I finally DO lose a torso, it's not like I can Zombie, anyhow.

So there ya go. Reasons. Not always apparent, but genuinely there. I think after 2 years and over 12000 matches, I might have some idea how things work in MWO.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 March 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[Roachbugg]

You dare invoke the name Steiner and speak heresy against the mghy god Atlas!?! Shame on you sir shame on you!

[Bishop Steiner]

Roachbugg, on 08 March 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

You dare invoke the name Steiner and speak heresy against the mghy god Atlas!?! Shame on you sir shame on you!

actually,. we in House Steiner rather have come to prefer the Banshee. Every house has the Atlas. They are so bloody common. But What our factories at Defiance (with help from the NAIS and plans from Hesperus II) have done with the Banshee, first with the 3S, and soon (everywhere but MWO) the 5S? It's a "proper" Steiner mech.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 March 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[Wintersdark]

I'm really, really excited for the 3E. I'm decidedly unimpressed with the others (lots of energy hardpoints are very difficult to use effectively with our lovely Ghost Heat) but the 3E looks so damn interesting. It's basically going to be running my Ilya and 4X builds, except with more cooling, ammo, armor, etc.

I do think you'll find the Banshee not quite as enduring once people get used to it. It'll be better than the atlas (narrower hitboxes, faster twist, bigger arms) but right now it has those advantages + people are new to it. Sure, big barrels, targets, etc... but the vast majority of more average players are just aiming center mass right now, because it's new and shiny. There's LOTS of players with a lot less experience =)

I'm kind of waffling about grabbing the hero. I'm not really taken by it, but I think it's better than the non-3E variants. Maybe go La Malinche, 3S, and 3E. Keeps me away from that silly 3M, and provides a hero bonus for grinding up cbills for those variants.

Well, that was a rambling post.

[NRP]

Been rolling my Hero Banshee in solo PUGs for the last few hours on my alt account. Pretty much guaranteed 2-3 kills with 300-500 damage and 5-8 assists, win or lose.

If you're at all interested in the Banshee chassis, I recommend grabbing the LM. It's a great C-Bill grinder. The only problem I see with the regular variants is fighting on uneven terrain. Since the majority of the weapons are on the ST/CT, it's going to be hard to bring most of your firepower to bear on any terrain other than flat ground. Also, lights tend to crotch hump you. This is where the arm weapons on the LM really pay off.

Edited by NRP, 08 March 2014 - 06:07 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 March 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

actually,. we in House Steiner rather have come to prefer the Banshee. Every house has the Atlas. They are so bloody common. But What our factories at Defiance (with help from the NAIS and plans from Hesperus II) have done with the Banshee, first with the 3S, and soon (everywhere but MWO) the 5S? It's a "proper" Steiner mech.

the 3S and 5S are the same mech (so technically are not separate variants) since the 3S can be and run the same "build" as the 5S since we have all the "star league" tech that was used to upgrade the 5S.

[Jin Ma]

the looks kind of grew on me. its kind of gorillaish

[Bishop Steiner]

SirLANsalot, on 08 March 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

the 3S and 5S are the same mech (so technically are not separate variants) since the 3S can be and run the same "build" as the 5S since we have all the "star league" tech that was used to upgrade the 5S.

Actually they are not. The 5S uses a 380XL, which the 3S cannot use, it's engine cap is 345. Also the 5S mounts it's SRM6 in the RA, and 2 Medium Lasers in the LA, as opposed to the 3S carrying nothing in the RA, and a Single PPC in the LA. It also has a Ballistic and an Energy in the LT, 3 Energy in the RT and 1 each in the Head and CT.

So, in truth, they are vastly different even if the basic weapons are not too dissimilar.

[xXBagheeraXx]

My atlas can usually keep its ballistics side pretty well...I was thinking the exact opposite about la machines when i see them...EVERYTHING smacks that CT or ballistic torso when i fight them...Was not impressed when I first saw these mechs....the the Cbill variants will all be Torso weapons only, limiting thier elevation and depression, with the only dangerous model being the 4 ballistic version, with all ballistics mounted in one torso area, with the rest of the mech having little more than probably medium lasers....All you have to do to eat these mechs will simply be at a higher elevation...at least with atlases, stalkers and especially battlemasters (even the shat missile model) you can get some weapons on targets higher or lower than your torso weapons...This is one assault that will NEVER touch my garage...I even bought back my victors after I rage sold them and have been doing SOMEWHAT better in them with more cautious play with my xl brawler/flankey builds.