37 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Misadventure, on 06 March 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

It seems like people make the same mistakes over and over again. You have to shake your head at this point because it’s usually pointless to tell the team it’s a bad idea, they just troll you back.

Yup, then they blame MM
Weapon Balance
Elo
Mech
PGI
VOIP
Premades
etc.
and we wind up with a very watered down version of what many of us were expecting. Then players leave. Then new players come in. Then we repeat the cycle.

You HAVE to balance to make the game enjoyable to new players BUT you cannot pander and cater to players who refuse to accept this isn't a rambo game

[Varent]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 06 March 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

Medium wolfpacks are some of the most raw fun you can have on PC today, but also very hard to pull off successfully.

Hence why I love it. Tests the skills and is raw invigoration.

[Varent]

Deathlike, on 06 March 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

It's actually rare to see a lance of Hunchbacks or Centurions (Shadowhawk lances are actually common) or even Blackjacks to troll everyone.

Too bad nothing like this exists for the Trebuchet.

I don't like the cents myself, But my Hunchbacks are pretty mean, though you have to play them mostly as a flanker since they don't take hits well. My favorites of late are actually the griffins and wolverines though. I like the srms

[East Indy]

Tycho von Gagern, on 06 March 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

Open Mic Night. Ask if anyone has a plan and get "Don't die," "Kill everyone," or any of the other daringly original quips that come from players with no intent of coming up with any coordinated effort and you're probably done for. These are the remarks of players that think bravado will substitute for teamwork/competence, a clear indication they think they can run in MWO just like they "totally pwn" in Halo. You're doomed.

While I've suffered every one of these (it's disheartening when the overhead shows a conga line or half the team circling at spawn) I'd actually argue that what you're describing is how some players understand that either a randomly assembled group has what it takes to improvise as a team or it doesn't — no amount of preparation will help if people don't respond to mid-engagement call-outs or directions.

In fact, when I see OCD generals ("EVERYONE GO HERE" or "Let's do this, then this, then this, then this!") I start hoping the other side is somehow worse off.

[Charons Little Helper]

SirLANsalot, on 06 March 2014 - 11:04 PM, said:

The Quasimodo.

2 HBK 4G's (AC20 3 ML 4 tons AC20 STD240 86kph) 2 HBK 4SP (2 ASRM6 5 ML) = TOTAL **** FACE! the 4Gs run behind the 4SP's. You also can just setup an ambush in obvious approach paths too.

Your hunchies are too slow! You should at least be going 89kph - that means you have a 250 with tweak, and with the 250 you can fit in FF. (no external heatsinks taking up space)

Oh - and going with an AC20 hunchie - you should really have a 4H. And if you're wolfpacking - small lasers are king! (4H @ 92kph w/ AC20 & 5 smalls - heck yeah!)

[Shredhead]

Tycho von Gagern, on 06 March 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

• Open Mic Night. Ask if anyone has a plan and get "Don't die," "Kill everyone," or any of the other daringly original quips that come from players with no intent of coming up with any coordinated effort and you're probably done for. These are the remarks of players that think bravado will substitute for teamwork/competence, a clear indication they think they can run in MWO just like they "totally pwn" in Halo. You're doomed.

Well, it's usually better to not answer to that, because a to move immediately out of the spawn is incredibly important for positioning, and you can't usually lay out a plan while moving around obstacles and b it's better to have the pugs form and hold the main line of battle, while you attempt the flanking manoeuvres with the needed coordination and aggressiveness.
We usually only try to keep people from running into terrible positions, chase lights or split off with heavies and assaults. This works well enough around 70% of the times, except when we get terribads who all die within 1 minute of action.
And then there are terribad armchair generals. I lately had the misfortune to meet one of those in the tournament. I've seen him lead the team in the most terrible positions twice, resulting in a stomping death on our side. Next time I've seen this guy I just told the team "Do not listen to XXX, he's a noob!". What can you say, we won that match, and though there was a snarky comment of "needs one to see one", the end screen told the story. Mr Armchair Tactician had 46 damage. In fact he never made more than 150 in all the games I've seen him. Next game he even tried to sabotage the team by taking a TAG only Spider. We won nonetheless.
It is just crucially important to know where not to run. If the position you want to reach is close to an enemy spawn, your way has only minimal cover and the position has the high ground advantage towards your direction, that's a strong indicator. Splitting off with slow mechs is bad, that also counts on Conquest, what good is a capped point if we have to start off losing 2-4 heavy mechs?

Edited by Shredhead, 08 March 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[Navy Sixes]

East Indy, on 08 March 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

when I see OCD generals ("EVERYONE GO HERE" or "Let's do this, then this, then this, then this!") I start hoping the other side is somehow worse off.

Shredhead, on 08 March 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

And then there are terribad armchair generals...

To be sure, taking successful command of a a solo PUG company is a skill all its own. I should have included a bullet point called "Chill Out, Ender" to describe the guy who tries to micromanage the team. Without knowing your teams skill level, and, as was noted, with the need to get off the drop and into position as quickly as possible, too much time spent on an overwrought "plan" with too many moving parts often spells disaster.

That said, in my own experience no plan means follow the herd. Which is fine if the herd's center of mass is ambling toward somewhere reasonable. But if the need to get into position quickly is paramount, and no one knows where that position is, where are you going? All things weighed, a plan is not going to guarantee success. Conversely, no plan at all doesn't guarantee failure. Still, I'd rather have one than not.

I also hope I didn't come off as some prig who doesn't want anyone to have fun. If I think of something funny, I'm the first to put it over the chat. Just not in the pre-drop or early game in response to teammates trying to work up a strategy. That's grown-up daddy-pants time. Some people came here to win, and cluttering up the chat-bar with my jokes -even though I'm pretty f%&ng hysterical!- is not cool.

[Simbacca]

The big one is I see is the lack of UAV usage.

Certain maps, it comes quite clear where the foe main body is located. Pop that UAV - and LRMs to wear 'em down. If team does not have LRMs at the very least knowing the foe's position generally spurs the team into action.

I tend only to equip my faster mechs with UAVs - as many times aggressive action is needed to get in, deploy and then get out before being sighted.

As a side bonus, UAV generally adds 10,000 C-Bills (or more) to the payout.

[Sandpit]

Simbacca, on 08 March 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

The big one is I see is the lack of UAV usage.

Certain maps, it comes quite clear where the foe main body is located. Pop that UAV - and LRMs to wear 'em down. If team does not have LRMs at the very least knowing the foe's position generally spurs the team into action.

I tend only to equip my faster mechs with UAVs - as many times aggressive action is needed to get in, deploy and then get out before being sighted.

As a side bonus, UAV generally adds 10,000 C-Bills (or more) to the payout.

If UAVs could be deployed other than directly above your current position you'd see them more widely used. They'd be more widely and effectively used if you could deploy them like Air and Arty. Point at the ground, shoot it off and it comes in directly above where you aimed.

[Shredhead]

Sandpit, on 08 March 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

If UAVs could be deployed other than directly above your current position you'd see them more widely used. They'd be more widely and effectively used if you could deploy them like Air and Arty. Point at the ground, shoot it off and it comes in directly above where you aimed.

Mmh, there's enough cover on every map for lights and fast mediums to get close, deploy the UAV and gtfo without too much exposure. A well deployed UAV gives you hundreds of XP and a good amount of CBills, so it's even good for absolute beginners in their first mechs. I just think people aren't really aware of the benefits, which leads back to PGI still not having proper tutorials, despite their promises.

[Deathlike]

Simbacca, on 08 March 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

The big one is I see is the lack of UAV usage.

Certain maps, it comes quite clear where the foe main body is located. Pop that UAV - and LRMs to wear 'em down. If team does not have LRMs at the very least knowing the foe's position generally spurs the team into action.

I tend only to equip my faster mechs with UAVs - as many times aggressive action is needed to get in, deploy and then get out before being sighted.

As a side bonus, UAV generally adds 10,000 C-Bills (or more) to the payout.

Not enough people use it... and that's a problem.

I take them on every light mech, if only to give people a clue on where the enemy is at, and position accordingly. Although it doesn't work perfectly that way, you can tell how people react to it (or not react to it) by the results. You can't convince people that they are making a mistake until it is too late.

[Deathlike]

Sandpit, on 08 March 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

If UAVs could be deployed other than directly above your current position you'd see them more widely used. They'd be more widely and effectively used if you could deploy them like Air and Arty. Point at the ground, shoot it off and it comes in directly above where you aimed.

I hate the idea, only because giving it a super-utility role with minimal risk (like arty/airstikes as they are) is kinda lame. I'd rather reward good UAV users more (just double the C-bill reward for UAV detection) and I can live with that. Getting into the middle of the mess SHOULD provide a proper risk-reward factor that minimally exists in this game.

[SirLANsalot]

Charons Little Helper, on 08 March 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Your hunchies are too slow! You should at least be going 89kph - that means you have a 250 with tweak, and with the 250 you can fit in FF. (no external heatsinks taking up space)

Oh - and going with an AC20 hunchie - you should really have a 4H. And if you're wolfpacking - small lasers are king! (4H @ 92kph w/ AC20 & 5 smalls - heck yeah!)

86 is with a 240 3 ML and the AC20 with 4 tons of ammo, plenty of speed for the 4G. The point of the Quasimodo is you ALL have the same range, and as such all stick together to cover one another. SL on a hunch......people learned that was STUPID back in the swayback days before eng rating caps happened. SL's only work on 150+ KPH light mechs where range doesn't matter to them.

[Bront]

Tycho von Gagern, on 06 March 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

Open Mic Night. Ask if anyone has a plan and get "Don't die," "Kill everyone," or any of the other daringly original quips that come from players with no intent of coming up with any coordinated effort and you're probably done for. These are the remarks of players that think bravado will substitute for teamwork/competence, a clear indication they think they can run in MWO just like they "totally pwn" in Halo. You're doomed.

Hey, I'm one of those snark folks.

And often I'll offer up something after the quip, or generally work with the team. Sometimes I don't want to lead tactically and just want to follow and react.

Then again, I'm getting called out by from the forums sometimes. Occasionally I even know their names (I'm bad with names, so don't be offended if I don't remember yours).

[Navy Sixes]

Bront, on 09 March 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Hey, I'm one of those snark folks.
And often I'll offer up something after the quip, or generally work with the team. Sometimes I don't want to lead tactically and just want to follow and react.

I almost never want to lead; like you, I'd rather react and execute someone else's plan to the best of my abilities. I'm not talking about having some fun along side "offering something up" tactically. I'm talking about the "Who put you in charge!!?" types who diminish or even sabotage their own team's attempts at figuring out a plan. Anyone who wants to ignore a plan is welcome to. Sometimes the plan is so bad that it's the smart thing to do. When I go off to die on my own, that's my choice. I don't try to discourage my teammates from coming up with a plan.

I think my point still stands. When people call solo PUGs "scrubs," in large part they are talking about their inability to work together for the win. When I drop with a team that spends the pre-drop and first minute of a match saying "I hate this map" or "your mom" or any other of a hundred quips instead of "everyone group up in E5 before we press forward," I feel our chances of winning decreasing exponentially.

[Bront]

Tycho von Gagern, on 09 March 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

I almost never want to lead; like you, I'd rather react and execute someone else's plan to the best of my abilities. I'm not talking about having some fun along side "offering something up" tactically. I'm talking about the "Who put you in charge!!?" types who diminish or even sabotage their own team's attempts at figuring out a plan. Anyone who wants to ignore a plan is welcome to. Sometimes the plan is so bad that it's the smart thing to do. When I go off to die on my own, that's my choice. I don't try to discourage my teammates from coming up with a plan.

I think my point still stands. When people call solo PUGs "scrubs," in large part they are talking about their inability to work together for the win. When I drop with a team that spends the pre-drop and first minute of a match saying "I hate this map" or "your mom" or any other of a hundred quips instead of "everyone group up in E5 before we press forward," I feel our chances of winning decreasing exponentially.

For the record, I enjoy leading a team sometimes as well.

But yes, PUGs aren't always bad, and if you actually try to coordinate, sometimes it works well (and sometimes it fails spectacularly). I've written numerous posts on how to work better with PUGs and raise them up. And yes, sometimes I get a "all PUGs suck" response. They're always very constructive.

[ImperialKnight]

There will always be players who don't want to learn or improve themselves, use them for the only thing they're good for, meat shields. Let them tank and you do the critical damage.

[Mawai]

Varent, on 06 March 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

Have to disagree with you here. Usually when im with friends I prefer to play the flanking lance and I love it when im with a few fast mediums packing srms and im in one myself. Come in hard from the side once the enemy has engaged your team and start picking off the jump snipers and missle boats one by one. ONce they realize your there use your speed to run away and allow your team to reap the rewards.

A well coordinated flanking lance is great. The amount of time I have seen it work properly ... probably 10 to 25% ... maybe less. Most often the flanking lance runs into 8 to 10 of the opposing team, take far more damage than they inflict, run off to avoid more losses often down one or more. There is usually one mech in the flanking lance leading the charge ... folks naturally focus fire on the closest mech ... this one often dies ... especially if it is a medium and the mechs they have found are assaults.

The times the flanking attack has worked is usually when the main group of the opposing team has engaged your team on relatively open ground or where there are decent lines of sight so that they are focused on your main group. The flank can then surprise and focus fire down the opposing mechs working along the line. If the opposing mechs do not have your main force to engage or if the engagement is peeking from behind cover AND your main force does not push when the flanking attack happens ... then the flanking attack usually fails as the opposing force turns its attention to eliminating the flankers while your main force wonders what the opponents are doing since they have stopped shooting for the moment.

So ... while flanking is fun ... unless you make a serious effort to coordinate with the main force ... then in many cases you are just giving up the game to the opposing team (at least if they are in one group or semi-decently organized).

Edited by Mawai, 09 March 2014 - 05:14 PM.