58 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 08 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

The main problem has always been giving new players a mid level Elo. They should start with zero with all the other newcomers and work their way up. The problem with that is people starting alt accounts for "seal clubbing", But if wins increase Elo fast for newcomers that won't be such a problem.
There are other reasons for alts such as differing factions and RP'ing.

YES! YES! YES!

YOU GET IT!

This is what I've been harping about all along! OMFG!

Check this out. EVERYONE starts at 1400 Elo after their 25 cadet rounds. The CAP (maximum) Elo score is 2900. That means there is a 1500 point variation from beginning to maximum (it's ok if you all have to use your fingers to work this out...I did).

Now...they put out that they were "loosening up" the Matchmaker to allow it to use a spread of 1400 points to fill matches. Work through this real fast.....even if you're on the max of 2900, you're going to get placed with guys as low as 1500. That means you might get stuck with guys that are TWO rounds out of their cadet matches.

There are 2 sides to the reason it's not fair.

The first, the one I espouse, is "why do we have to get saddled with these crosseyed, drooling, one chromosone too many derps?" It's not fair to us. And, not only is it not fair to us...it takes away from our enjoyment of the game.

The other side is the one my kid always uses. "Why do I keep getting put into teams where the other guys are so much better than me? I keep getting killed too fast. I don't have a chance to learn." This is ALSO true. It's not fair to them to be placed into a match where they're nothing but a baby seal waiting to be clubbed. Where's the learning curve here? About 30 seconds past where they already got killed, that's where.

So...what's the solution? Other than the fact that the Matchmaker is OBVIOUSLY a crosseyed, drooling derp because it thinks an ECM Locust is the same as a Highlander, it's in the spread that it's given to find groups.

TIGHTEN THE DAMN THING UP. 600-700 would be a good start. Adjust it to half of what it's got now and watch the forums. If all you get are posts that say "But..but...but...I'm an Elite Founder. I should expect to find a match every single time I hit the "launch" button. I keep getting "no match founds" over and over" and not "the matchmaker sucks. See this screenshot" posts...then odds are, you're doing it right.

Sorry to hear it if you're not finding matches, buddy, you've reached the apex of skill and are probably going to suffer for it until prime time when there are more people of your skill level available.

Granted, this is only MY opinion, but I'd much rather have to hit "launch" two or three times while goofing off on the 'net than to end up in a one-sided Derpfest.

(BTW, I have decided to take the advice of those polite people that posted here....to a point. There IS a difference between a Noob and a New player. They both, however, are a detriment to their teams. From now on, I will refer to all individuals that fall into that category as "Derps." My 12 year old heartily agrees, being a professional Derp himself)

Edited by Willard Phule, 08 March 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[wwiiogre]

So,

The Title of this thread should have been "Why doesn't Matchmaker code for experience?"

I have posted over and over about this. There is no way to rate skill in this game. You cannot use w/l because the current matchmaker attempts to put everyone's w/l near 50%.

You cannot rate skill using k/d, because it varies by tonnage class and if you were dropping in a group.

You could rate a player by total number of drops. But this says nothing of his skill, merely his experience. 99 or less drops is a new player. 100-499 drops is a green player. 500+ is a veteran player.

This isn't perfect. But if every pug drop had the same number of players from each group with the same tonnage class mech. Then it is better than what we have now or even what is proposed.

The mere fact that a new player with no drops has an average elo score is beyond ignorant. Especially since the matchmaker attempts to move everyone's elo towards average by stacking games against them.

If you drop in a group, you break elo and the current matchmaker. So, PGI is gonna only allow a single premade group per side for pug drops. Now if tonnage class matching is also enforced for groups first then rest of team next. You will not see Joe Noob and his 3 friends in 3 lights and a medium. Facing Willard and his 3 friends in meta cheese hvy and assaults. But we will see.

So Willard, what is your proposal for PGI to make matchmaker work? A strict new player que until they have X amount of games? A tutorial test to complete that shows they know how each part of MWO works?

I wish you luck with your quest to not be on a team that sucks while you pug drop. I just hope in April it gets better than what it is now. Because now is near pointless, but I need to grind cbills so I can buy more mechs.

Chris

[Willard Phule]

wwiiogre, on 08 March 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

So Willard, what is your proposal for PGI to make matchmaker work? A strict new player que until they have X amount of games? A tutorial test to complete that shows they know how each part of MWO works?

Ok...what would I, personally, like to see? Something coming close...even approximating...what they had back in MW4, even though I really don't dig the whole "hardpoint" thing. And maybe, just maybe, a little bit of balance out there so there aren't complete roflstomps 90% of PUG matches.

How to accomplish this? Gee. I'm almost challenged by that question...but, since PGI doesn't give a @#$@# about what the community thinks, allow me to retort.

1 - Institute "slot limitations" to the "hardpoints" for mechs. That's right. There aren't any 5 ERPPC builds on Stalkers because only 2 of the "hardpoints" have 3 slots available. Suck it up, buttercup. But...but..what about the guys that already have 5 ERPPCs on their Stalkers? Can't drop, illegal builds. Deal with it. Move on. Sure, there will be different metas...just like there were in MW4...but those metas won't completely unbalance the game.

What does this achieve? Ghost heat is gone..no sense in that Derpnamic dynamic. Metas require a bit more thought and ability to pull off. And...get this...when the Clans come out, maybe...just maybe...since they're working with pod space...they have the ability to have an edge to the IS crap we've got going on here.

2- For F*ck's sake, do something with this damn Matchmaker and that Derptarded Elo system you initiated. Seriously? You twisted the panties of the entire community by introducing a skill based Elo system...then you set the matchmaker up to pretty much ignore it? Ok, fine. I get it. Let's all go club baby seals. That's a challenge. Or, better yet, let's require the community to play "White Knight" and teach the Derps how to play.

What if we don't want to teach them? What if we think they're contaminating the gene pool with their very existence? What if we think the entire world would be better off if they choked on their tongues while they slept (along with another HUGE selection of humanity)? What..you don't like that opinion? Tough crap. My opinion is just as valid as yours....just ask Sandpit. I'm allowed to think you're a waste of skin and are breathing oxygen that I could be breathing 5 years from now. It's my opinion and my right to think that. Don't take the "happy fuzzy" side of crap when it doesn't make you feel "happy and fuzzy." Suck it up, buttercup.

3 - Tutorials. Wow. Well, that'll never happen unless they come up with a hanging cockpit tutorial. PGI simply doesn't have the coders to pull it off. Oddly enough, those of us that have played the previous MW titles actually remember that "way back in the day," we played the 1st person version of the game LONG before we ever went online to play with other people (well, some of us did...those that didn't...well, they got called "noobs" and sucked it up, buttercup.) PGI has decided that game balance and ease of play are less important than making a quick buck.

So..here's the deal...would you like to take the inadequate tutorial that we're providing? NO? Ok, good with us, click the button. Oh...and, have you noticed that we have many mechs on sale? You can by them for the equivalent of a few bucks. Sure, come to the store. We'll even sell you a happy, fuzzy danglie to put in your cockpit while EVERY EXPERIENCED PLAYER BEATS YOU TO DEATH LIKE A BABY HARP SEAL. Sure, we know, it's not fair...but, what do we care? We got your money. Good luck getting it back."

---End of rant. I need another beer. Good luck white knighting these people. Until they ban me and burn me in effigy, I'm probably going to be here, beating my drum...out-stupiding the stupid with even more stupid. You can't out-stupid me, I'm professional stupid.

[NextGame]

personally I would love if there was a separate queue for weekend warriors, because the quality of gameplay tanks every Saturday and sunday without exception.

[Jman5]

eh,

People are always quick to call others noobs and rarely recognize the mistakes they make. Focus on solving your own problems and spend less time getting angry at random pugs. You can change yourself, but you can't change an entire playerbase.

In OP's case the solution is simple. Instead of trying to get every single person to not discharge his weapons at the start, he should do his best to avoid running front of his lancemates. At the very least run in a straight predictable line and don't make sudden movements at the start. It's not his fault that he got shot in the back, but it's easier to alter one's own behavior than everyone else's.

Edited by Jman5, 09 March 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[MerryIguana]

Willard Phule, on 08 March 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

I should NOT be expected to hold their chubby

[Willard Phule]

Jman5, on 09 March 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

eh,

People are always quick to call others noobs and rarely recognize the mistakes they make. Focus on solving your own problems and spend less time getting angry at random pugs. You can change yourself, but you can't change an entire playerbase.

In OP's case the solution is simple. Instead of trying to get every single person to not discharge his weapons at the start, he should do his best to avoid running front of his lancemates. At the very least run in a straight predictable line and don't make sudden movements at the start. It's not his fault that he got shot in the back, but it's easier to alter one's own behavior than everyone else's.

So, basically, what you're saying is that I should assume that everyone I play with has one chromosone too many and shouldn't be trusted to be behind me without shooting me in the back.

It's up to me to worry about walking in front of people or moving slowly and deliberately so the Derps can hold their fire?

It kinda brings back the whole point of "why am I in a queue with the Derps in the first place," doesn't it.

But, I see your advice and I'll take it one step further. If the people that feel the need to neglegently discharge their weapons in spawn aren't at fault for shooting their own teammates, then I'm not at fault for not holding my fire when they Derp in front of me later on. If I'm going to play with Derps, I should be a Derp myself. Got it. Too easy.

[Odins Fist]

Actually I haven't seen anyone called a "NOOB" ingame for a longtime, they are using more colorful metaphors.

[Charons Little Helper]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 08 March 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

The main problem has always been giving new players a mid level Elo. They should start with zero with all the other newcomers and work their way up. The problem with that is people starting alt accounts for "seal clubbing", But if wins increase Elo fast for newcomers that won't be such a problem.
There are other reasons for alts such as differing factions and RP'ing.

That has to do with the math behind Elo. In the longterm - if they were to lower starter Elo there would be Elo deflation - ending with new players being near the new & lower average.

The only way not to do it this way - is to have an extremely thourough system - similar to League of Legends. Tons of games are required before you're rated at all. And once you've gone through enough unranked games, they put you through several placement games (8?) - and the average player at the end of that has an average Elo.

Frankly - MWO probably doesn't have the player base for that sort of system. And even if it did - MWO isn't really that sort of game where such extreme measures are needed / would be put up with.

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 09 March 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[Mycrus]

This is subforum is for qq ing about balance you forum noob.

[B0oN]

Werent those last few posts about MM´s decision of derping together the teams and how to maybe at least partially defuse the "not-so-beginnerfriendly" new-user´s experience, Mycrus, or did I lend my reading comprehension to someone who needed it more ?

Eh, anway, you guys might as well all head over to Roland´s (from Hansen´s Roughriders) quite nice post about how he wished the MM would work.

Commence, lads .

[Joseph Mallan]

Abivard, on 07 March 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

You shouldn't throw rocks when you live in a glass house.

Its Transparent Aluminum.

[Willard Phule]

Mycrus, on 10 March 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:

This is subforum is for qq ing about balance you forum noob.

Actually, man, it got started because I'd had a few beers and ended up in several matches that were one roflstomp after another. In most of them, my teammates did more damage to their own team than the enemy's and a couple of times, I had to see people ask questions like "How to move forward?" or "What means lock targets?"

So, I guess, you're partially right. It's more of a rant post with regard to the fact that the whole concept of Elo and a Matchmaker are basically useless as they're implemented now.

Since the Matchmaker has this HUGE spread to look through, there is NO way to escape having to deal with these Derps.

I mean...do the math...use your fingers if you have to.

You start at 1400 points. The maximum Elo is 2900 points. From beginning (1400) to end (2900), there is a difference of 1500 points. So, even if you are the "best of the best, with honors, sir" and have a 2900.....you're still liable to get stuck with guys that have a 1500, just 2 wins out from having graduated from either The Nooblering or the Derplamore Academy.

Edited by Willard Phule, 10 March 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Those MUST be Snake Charming Schools of combat Phule!

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 March 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

Those MUST be Snake Charming Schools of combat Phule!

I was kinda hoping you'd like that. Noobelring...Derplamore...I need to come up with a few others.

[Joseph Mallan]

How about in honor of your House, Son's Wang Academy?

[Willard Phule]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 March 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

How about in honor of your House, Son's Wang Academy?

Ahem.

Fucht War College (ok, that was a bit close to inappropriate but had to be said)
Lo Ping University
PortaPotty for Luthien Officers
Suckhara Academy

I can't think of any more right off the top of my head. Hard to beat Nooblering and Derplamore.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 10 March 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

Ahem.

Fucht War College (ok, that was a bit close to inappropriate but had to be said)
Lo Ping University
PortaPotty for Luthien Officers
Suckhara Academy

I can't think of any more right off the top of my head. Hard to beat Nooblering and Derplamore.

I am in the shadow of a master!

[Willard Phule]

LOL. I get it, even if I'm not a big Firefly fan. Space Cowboys just didn't do it for me.....that having been said, I did like Jayne's hat.