58 replies to this topic

[Sybreed]

So, I've decided to give the Gauss another shot on my Highlander and I simply can't use the weapon on this mech. Considering my loadout is pretty close to stock weapons (Gauss, 2 Mpulse, SRM 6, LRM 20), I just can't use the other weapons effectively while holding and releasing the key for the Gauss charge up. Doing so usually results in missing either my Gauss shot or my SRMs/laser shots.

In short, the charge mechanic means you have to boat 2 Gauss rifles in order to be effective, as it becomes extremely difficult to use other weapon groups with completely different ways to be used. It did become a very niche long range weapon, but even there, with the inability to reduce mouse sensibility with advanced zoom, it's hard to hit anything as a slight movement will make you sway left and right dramatically.

My solution would be to completely remove the Gauss Charge up. The fact that JJs got nerfed and PPCs/Gauss have different projectile speed, we don't need the mechanic anymore.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Use an AC/10 instead.
The gauss rifle is now used in the "sniper" role, or as a "skill-based" weapon in other circumstances. It is not longer the best multifunction weapon, at 1 heat and the longest range in the game, it was too powerful for that role.

[FupDup]

If you remove the charge, you might have to reduce some other stat of the Gauss to compensate. Otherwise, we might end up with it being the king of ballistics again. Also keep in mind that the Gauss actually got a big projectile speed buff (+800 m/s) when the charge was added, and a bit of a health boost (I forgot how much).

[Sybreed]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 05 March 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

Use an AC/10 instead.
The gauss rifle is now used in the "sniper" role, or as a "skill-based" weapon in other circumstances. It is not longer the best multifunction weapon, at 1 heat and the longest range in the game, it was too powerful for that role.

They should just give it a longer CD. Then, you wouldn't be able to brawl with it anyway, if that's what PGI was so afraid of. 6 seconds CD should give enough time for anyone to punish you back at close range.

Like all sniper weapons in other games, it should be a big damage, low dps weapon and skill doesn't really have anything to do with the charge-up. It's so clumsy to use it makes it impossible to use anything else with it.

I'm fine with other games using charge mechanics like with bows and whatnot, but you only have THAT weapon to manage, not 4 others.

Edited by Sybreed, 05 March 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[Master Maniac]

I disagree. I used an Orion with 4 ML, 2 ASRM-6, and a RT Gauss Rifle with *fantastic* success. I'd *still* be using it if not for the fact that Gauss Rifles and XL engines do not mix, which was finally the cause of one too many extremely premature deaths. I've had to downgrade to the AC-10, and the unpleasantness of this has resulted in me barely wanting to touch the 'Mech at all.

It merely requires a bit of practice. Think of it as Mega Man's X-Buster - charge and release for the big boom. It's your zero-heat hand cannon, your one-two punch after an alpha. It also provides some nice long-range utility to the 'Mech. Stick it on your right mouse button, and you're set.

EDIT: There's no reason complain that it doesn't "alpha" well with other weapons. It's nothing more than a matter of hand-eye coordination. If you really need a massed strike, fire your other weapons while you're releasing the Gauss button. It's not at all difficult, and I have the hand-eye coordination of someone twice my age, honestly.

Edited by Master Maniac, 05 March 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Sybreed]

FupDup, on 05 March 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

If you remove the charge, you might have to reduce some other stat of the Gauss to compensate. Otherwise, we might end up with it being the king of ballistics again. Also keep in mind that the Gauss actually got a big projectile speed buff (+800 m/s) when the charge was added, and a bit of a health boost (I forgot how much).

sure, I think a long CD would help bring it in line as a sniper weapon. I don't mind seeing its health nerfed again either.

[Master Maniac]

*sigh*

There is nothing that should say that the Gauss needs to be a "sniper weapon." With the charge time, the Gauss Rifle *already* has one of the longest and trickiest cooldown states of any weapon in the game, and at 15 damage points with just as many tons required to mount the weapon - not counting ammunition - it's not that powerful for its cost.

Some people won't be happy until everything is just plain nuanced into absolute oblivion, and this becomes a numbers-based MOBA. FFS.

[Bhael Fire]

I still think they should keep charge up, but allow it to fire before charge is complete with reduced range and damage. So basically pressing and releasing the button would fire the weapon, but at like 270 meters and 5 damage. The longer the button is held to charge, the further it will shoot the more damage it will do (up to max range and max damage of 15)

That way, it can be used in short range engagements, but with reduced effect.

[Master Maniac]

Bhael Fire, on 05 March 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

I still think they should keep charge up, but allow it to fire before charge is complete with reduced range and damage. So basically pressing and releasing the button would fire the weapon, but at like 270 meters and 5 damage. The longer the button is held to charge, the further it will shoot the more damage it will do (up to max range and max damage of 15)

That way, it can be used in short range engagements, but with reduced effect.

I don't know how realistic that is, but I think that's a neat idea.

Still, it ain't that hard to use the thing in close quarters. Really. If my good mouse hadn't broken, my double Gauss Ilya with 3 ML would be all I'd ever use.

[Sybreed]

Master Maniac, on 05 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

I don't know how realistic that is, but I think that's a neat idea.

Still, it ain't that hard to use the thing in close quarters. Really. If my good mouse hadn't broken, my double Gauss Ilya with 3 ML would be all I'd ever use.

yeah, I made a thread suggesting that a few months ago, but now I think it's better if the charge is completely gone.

[Bhael Fire]

Master Maniac, on 05 March 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

I don't know how realistic that is, but I think that's a neat idea.

Actually, it's more realistic than it is currently. As gauss rifles rely on a magnetic charge to propel the ferromagnetic slug downrange, more charge time means more stored energy and therefore more power to propel the slug. If you release the energy early, it will still fire, but with reduced kinetic force.

[Helsbane]

I've posted this in a few other threads, but it bears posting here as well....

...Adding the charge timer to the gauss to decouple them from the PPC (which failed almost as hard as UI 2.0) actually took away one of the best anti-poptart weapons we had to counter them. Anyone can master the 'hold one key down, then release it while simultaneously pressing another' workaround, so the whole charge timer is just another failed bandaid fix.

Now, at this point you're thinking "well removing that will just lead to the gauss rifle / ppc meta we had before the charge mechanic". Well kids, I can rid us of that nightmare with no heat BS, no projectile speed alterations, and no charge mechanics.

Watch closely....

PPC based weapons are basically giant electromagnetic particle accelerators. Take the amount of EM distortion generated by firing those weapons and cause it to de-synch the coils in the gauss rifle. This would cause the gauss rifle to spend .75 seconds as the computer gets the coils firing in the correct order once again.

Gauss rifles are extremely power hungry as they fire, routing massive amounts of power through the coils of the weapon. This sudden shunt of energy through the gauss would disable the PPCs for, oh for sake of argument, let's say .75 seconds as the reactor recovers from the power dump to the gauss.

There, I separated the Gauss from the PPCs in a realistic fashion using nothing but the nature of each weapon as a means of doing so.

Edited by Helsbane, 05 March 2014 - 05:26 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Sybreed, on 05 March 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

yeah, I made a thread suggesting that a few months ago, but now I think it's better if the charge is completely gone.

I too would be happy if it were completely removed, but the variable charge/power time mechanic would be a better compromise to what the gauss is currently.

[Master Maniac]

Sybreed, on 05 March 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

yeah, I made a thread suggesting that a few months ago, but now I think it's better if the charge is completely gone.

I'm a diehard Gauss fan. Always have been. I like a gun that makes a big boom, shoots straight, and can reach out and touch things like I think a massive 15-ton cannon with magnetic accelerator coils should.

That said, I remember the cries of how Gauss Rifles were made completely useless with the addition of the charge mechanic. I laughed at this, and proceeded to get 5 to 7 kill games with ridiculous damage scores with my Gaussaphracts. They require patience, skill, and precision - and now, with the charge requirement, they require some very, very precise timing. The tradeoff is a solid weapon with reliable damage properties at most ranges. In this, the Gauss Rifle is probably the most interesting and skill-based weapon currently available to pilots. It is, in my opinion, quite *fine* where it is. It's an effective multi-role weapon. You can pair it up for a respectable punch that your enemies will fear, or you can wield it like a powerful sidearm or clinch weapon. This is good, because relegating each and every weapon to a precise role is stupid and nothing more than an excuse for bad players to avoid having to learn how to play the game properly.

As it stood before, there was very little separating the Gauss Rifle from the AC20 from a functional standpoint - only the fact that the GR was the vastly better choice because it had better range and its ammunition was much much lighter per round, making it the more economical choice. As a Gauss fanatic, I embraced the changes because they finally differentiated the two weapons in a meaningful way, without artificially shoehorning the weapons into stupid set roles.

[SirLANsalot]

give ya a little hint to the Gauss. DO NOT USE IT WITH OTHER GUNS.


Its quite simple really when you get that idea through your head.

Aim with the Gauss first and land your shot, THEN aim for your other guns while the gauss is reloading. Hell even in the new Hero mech when I do take a gauss and ERPPC in the torso, I fire the gauss first and then the PPC like a split second later as a follow up shot. You just can't use it on the same weapon group thats all.


The AAA's of Mechwarrior Adjust, Adapt, Annihilate

Edited by SirLANsalot, 05 March 2014 - 05:16 PM.

[Master Maniac]

SirLANsalot, on 05 March 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

give ya a little hint to the Gauss. DO NOT USE IT WITH OTHER GUNS.


Its quite simple really when you get that idea through your head.

Aim with the Gauss first and land your shot, THEN aim for your other guns while the gauss is reloading. Hell even in the new Hero mech when I do take a gauss and ERPPC in the torso, I fire the gauss first and then the PPC like a split second later as a follow up shot. You just can't use it on the same weapon group thats all.


The AAA's of Mechwarrior Adjust, Adapt, Annihilate

Spoken like a true boss.

Stop whining and L2P.

[Bhael Fire]

I sometimes use gauss in the same group with ER large lasers; when the lasers are almost finished with their burn time, the gauss usually releases. Pairs pretty nicely because of the need to stay on target with the lasers (instead of pin-point weapons which tend to make it too easy to drift from you target once the initial shot is made).

The lasers kinda act like laser sights.

[Sephlock]

SirLANsalot, on 05 March 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

The AAA's of Mechwarrior Adjust, Adapt, Annihilate

Not

Artillery, Airstrike, Alphastrike ?

[Master Maniac]

Bhael Fire, on 05 March 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

I sometimes use gauss in the same group with ER large lasers; when the lasers are almost finished with their burn time, the gauss usually releases. Pairs pretty nicely because of the need to stay on target with the lasers (instead of pin-point weapons which tend to make it too easy to drift from you target once the initial shot is made).

The lasers kinda act like laser sights.

Track weapons generally do not mix well with twitch weapons in my experience, but hey, if you can do it, cool.

I feel that the Gauss Rifle is the perfect right mouse button weapon, myself. Honestly, it does not require superhuman reflexes and coordination to time two separate primary attack groups.

[SirLANsalot]

Master Maniac, on 05 March 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

As it stood before, there was very little separating the Gauss Rifle from the AC20 from a functional standpoint - only the fact that the GR was the vastly better choice because it had better range and its ammunition was much much lighter per round, making it the more economical choice. As a Gauss fanatic, I embraced the changes because they finally differentiated the two weapons in a meaningful way, without artificially shoehorning the weapons into stupid set roles.

Gauss is an Arm mounted gun, and pretty much should be kept away from the torso whenever possible. The AC20 is a Torso mounted gun due to its massive size.

If you can take an AC20, then do it, if you can't take an AC20 due to crit limitations, then the Gauss is the next best thing to take for an Arm mounted Ballistic. Things die much faster to an AC20 then they do to a gauss rifle....like 25 or 30 ton light mechs for example.