18 replies to this topic

[xMintaka]

Clearly, this is a most contemptible tactic and any that do it should be branded with a giant "NOOB" across their mech's CT and let us be done with it.

/90% of the forumers ranting.


So let me get down to my main point, disregarding the majority opinion on such things.

This tactic, while clearly powerful, takes a great deal of skill to pull off effectively. All to often I see so called "poptarts" trying to brawl with their AC5's, instead of letting the assaults on the team take the brunt of the push and simply exploit holes in the enemy armour.
Yes, it is entirely possible to brawl with 2x UAC5's. I've done it in a premade, simply charging a Jagermech and getting lucky with jams. More often than not, you are not lucky and do not have a group to save you. So let's ignore random chance, please.

This is my point. One does not simply use a jumpy AC5 + PPC equipped mech and do well. You need to know proper positioning, not to mention have the twitch skills to land your shots where you want them in the half second window you have to fire.

Which brings me to my point. The last week or so has seen me getting killed by numerous Guass + PPC snipers.
Kudos to you. You need to time your jump, charge AND sync your PPC shots with the much faster Guass round. These are poptarts I can respect.
Granted, the truly great players with their UAC5 VTR's or HGN's (not wanting to massage ego's, but looking at you CSJ and Lords who I have played with) can do exceptionally well with such builds. I have the utmost respect for you folks as well. I've seen you all do well in SRM brawlers, so it's clearly player skill rather than the mech that maketh the hype.

But, to my mind it takes a great deal more skill to do such things with a Guass Rifle. Naturally, I've been trying this in a Shadowhawk and failing miserably.

Is there anywhere that the projectile speed is listed, so as to enable a scrub like myself to attempt to emulate these devils who rear ST core me in one or two shots?

Likewise, is anyone willing to share the popular poptart haunts?

I'm sure your superior skill does not fear a couple of lights coming sniffing around, so what do you have to worry about? Afraid some scrubs, like myself, will start doing as well as you?

Obviously, my question about poptarting locations is bound to encounter a wall of silence. So my main reason for this topic is the projectile speed.


Meanwhile, I hope all you AC5/PPC poptarts have nightmares about when a lance of jumping SRM Brawlers finds you and you're limited to just 2x AC5 Because trust me, we will find you. If not us, then our Pulse laser equipped light friends will find you, and they will tell us where you are. Then we will find you. And we will kill you.

Provided you dont see us coming and obliterate us before we get there. But we do not speak of such things here.

Edited by Lunatech, 28 February 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

I was an old popfart from mechwarrior 4, but i cant seem to hit with ppcs anymore at medium to long range. gave up and stuck to gauss sniping and brawlers. The best thing i can tell you about positioning from the few good poptart games i have in my heavy metal that does not see the light of day, and my Jester, is to follow the assaults/pushes. While they are tying up thier atleses or what have you you are a few hundred feet back putting 30 points of loving into thier ac20's or red center torsos. Some of my best games in my poptart jester have been nearly 800 damage just with 2 er ppcs and a few mediums simply sidelining and being annoying. I hate assaults that are vulerable to light mechs tho, and ac5 poptarts are the worst. If you have no allies to scrape them off, you are hosed, as ac5's arent the best light killing weapons in the world. As far as poptart Shadowhawks go, ive seen some ppc/ac20 ones be quite deadly, as you are standard engine build with them, and have to get close so its GOING to hit unless your aim is as bad as mine. + one arm can be used as a shield since it has nothing in it.

[Roughneck45]

Smurfy is your friend.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Click mech and weaponstats at the top.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

AC/5s and UAC/5s are the closest to PPCs in muzzle velocity, that's why they're commonly paired together. Gauss will outpace a PPC bolt and AC/10/20s are WAY slower after the nerf.

I still have no idea why they nerfed the AC/10, barely anyone carries that thing

Edited by OuttaAmmo NoWai, 01 March 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[xMintaka]

Roughneck45, on 01 March 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Smurfy is your friend.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Click mech and weaponstats at the top.

Considering I use Smurfy daily, I have no idea why it didn't cross my mind to look there. Thanks.


Bagheera, I'd have said that two AC5's are actually one of the better light killing weapons (second to AC10/20 and Guass) if you can aim well. I cannot, so tend to do as you say and hang around the team. When the Guass + PPC combo works, it's beautiful though. I don't think it will replace 2x AC5's on my mechs, even if it is a ton lighter, though.

My SHD-2D2 is an AC20 + ERPPC brawler. That's pretty good, but I wouldn't call it a poptart even though it can perform admirably in this role at close ranges.

Edited by Lunatech, 02 March 2014 - 04:28 PM.

[NRP]

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone poptart with PPCs and a (post nerf) Gauss. That would be crazy hard to pull off.

Edited by NRP, 02 March 2014 - 04:42 PM.

[luxebo]

NRP, on 02 March 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone poptart with PPCs and a (post nerf) Gauss. That would be crazy hard to pull off.

Don't alpha, but put into different groups. I've tried a SHD build with ER PPC and Gauss, it works to a good extent, but I like dual AC5s better, as Gauss in a side torso with XL engine doesn't work that well surviving.

Edited by luxebo, 02 March 2014 - 05:14 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

After recent patches, there is a subtle but noticeable "Clang" when the gauss rifle is charged and ready to fire. Use this sound to time your shots and you'll start doing a lot better.

Put the gauss on Mouse 2 and PPCs on mouse 1 or vice versa. Hold down the gauss button until you hear "clang" and then release while pressing the ppc button.

I haven't uploaded good Gauss/PPC poptarting videos but this one will do. Notice how it goes "clang" and half a sec later I fire.

[unFearing]

Well, logically knowing that the PPC is slower than the Gauss, the PPC should be fired first with the Gauss following up.

Most postnerf Gauss-PPC snipers will have the Gauss Rifle highlighted in each weapon group, so as to take advantage of the 6 square HUD-based reticle (turns green upon full charge; useful in the event the charge up SFX does not occur).

The steps are probably:
1. Find targets >> select what and where to hit (whether by targeting information or by sight).

2. Jump Jet into the air (if not already), preferably with a velocity that allows the pilot to move horizontally across an enemy's screen, in the event they choose to fire upon you.

3. Charge the Gauss on the way up or somewhat before the peak of the jump (when all potential shots become realistic).

4. Once the HUD reticle is green, fire the PPCs and then the Gauss Rifle.

Of course, the target lead is a different story. Consider all the elements of target leading with one weapon, and then consider having double the amount of elements to worry about and timing. The easiest example I can think of is with brawling weapons: AC20 and SRMs. When leading in close quarters, one must be conscious of his weapons available, terrain, and the enemy itself of course. Alpha striking is frowned upon, but with generally low heat weapons such as ballistics and missiles, this is certainly a viable option.

To land the 2 different weapon systems on the same spot, either:

Space out the shots, leading and firing with one system and then turning your torso very quickly (you should have already been turning to lead the first weapon system) to land the other weapon system in the split-second window presented, or,

Mentally visualize the AC20 lead, and then visualize the SRM lead, and then deduce a saturation point of where to aim to coordinate the different leads. With brawling weapons, this tactic is only exercised in perhaps sub 200 or 100m brawls where the enemy is strafing across one's view, and works much better on components of larger width (Stalker STs, Raven, Dragon) rather than components of larger height (Atlas ST, HGN, Legs). Consideration must also be given to the pilot's weaponry placement; if a mech is strafing left across the pilot's screen, a mech such as the Misery leading with AC20 and an SRM 6 (lame with HSR but that's besides the point) will have to lead slightly differently than an Atlas with AC20 and SRMs since the initial position of the projectiles will differ.

Target leading aformentioned brawling alpha strike is undoubtedly easier said than done, of course.

Relating this back to Gauss and PPC, since the weapon velocities differ so greatly, the latter alpha strike target lead is not as viable for targets very far away. Also, weapon placement on the sniper's mech becomes less relevant as the engagement distance increases. In general, target distance and speed in relation to the sniper alter the target lead in all events, so really, I'm going to be lame and say that it's the sniper's experience that will allow for the shots to land. As a Gauss PPC sniper myself, when targets are very far out but within range (1000m ish), i will target lead for the shot, but not a component, as that becomes extra time wasted lining up a weak shot that could be better spent finding a better position or targeting a closer enemy. I attempted to offer the brawling example as a smaller version of the topic, as it is much easier to execute and comprehend; however, words can never truly replicate an action or experience itself, and learning is best done by observation and the individual's own connections formed from the experience.

You're better off scrolling through your PUG brawlers/snipers, quickly noting if their build fits what you are looking for (you said you dont want to study off of the AC/5 PPC snipers) and if they know how to play, then studying their firing intervals. The only Highlander that has a tonnage-based reason to run a Gauss rifle is the 732, which would be run with 3 PPC + Gauss, and it is very rare to see that since it's technically double nerfed. You can probably discard most Highlander snipers for your learning experience, as they have the tonnage and armor to better utilize the AC/5 PPC combination.

Personally, if I'm in a Victor, Cataphract, Misery, or Atlas, you will see me executing these elements. I don't do it super well, and when i numerically do well damage wise, it's probably because the enemy had many assaults.

Good luck finding someone to study, and hopefully you can extrapolate your understanding of the brawling example to your sniping endeavors.

[xMintaka]

NRP, on 02 March 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen anyone poptart with PPCs and a (post nerf) Gauss. That would be crazy hard to pull off.

luxebo, on 02 March 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Don't alpha, but put into different groups. I've tried a SHD build with ER PPC and Gauss, it works to a good extent, but I like dual AC5s better, as Gauss in a side torso with XL engine doesn't work that well surviving.

luxebo, you've just landed on my experimental Guass + PPC build. Currently running it on a SHD-5M. Had a few +500 damage games out of it, but those were when I was really "on it".
However, as you say, if you come across someone who can aim relatively well... Boom goes the Shadowhawk.

NRP, you haven't? I guess it's fairly rare, but the cause for my questioning was watching myself and my lance get obliterated by another lance of Guass + 2x PPC Heavy Metal's.
The funny thing? I praised them for their skill over the typical "jump, alpha, repeat" meta, and I got a "QQ" in return. For offering praise. Someone's ego is eclipsing their understanding of the English language.

If you get the chance, I'd urge people to try it out. I find it far more satisfying that just spamming Alpha as I drop from my jump. Especially when you rear RT core a Spider running at full speed. Luck? Definitely. Do I care? Nope.


Edit: Damnit, two replies while I was typing...

Edited by Lunatech, 02 March 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[luxebo]

Lunatech, on 02 March 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

luxebo, you've just landed on my experimental Guass + PPC build. Currently running it on a SHD-5M. Had a few +500 damage games out of it, but those were when I was really "on it".
However, as you say, if you come across someone who can aim relatively well... Boom goes the Shadowhawk.

Yeah, exactly. Often times someone will snipe you with their own heavier poptart or something alike and blow you up, and STD engine will make you slow.

[Modo44]

If you have enough upwards mobility, you can even use the Gauss+ERLL combo. This removes the short range issue while not being stupidly hot like ERPPCs. Althought I have to say, the Victor 9K with Gauss+2xERPPC is probably my favourite toy.

[JigglyMoobs]

Couple more videos of pop-tarting with Gauss/PPC:

This one is more of a stomp. Not that much jumping but you can see how much I can fire the combo. There are almost no heat issues at all, which is one of the big pluses for this set up compared to AC/20 PPC.



This one was more challenging. I had to scramble up a hill in Forest Colony and start poptarting for reals.



The Gauss/PPC combo does require a bit more air time. It works better with the Victor-K, 6 JJ setup, which I currently don't have.

[Ruccus]

With regards to the Gauss Rifle, instead of listening for a 'clang' to tell when it's ready, just put the Gauss Rifle on all your unused weapons groups.

Usually I run a main gun or two on my left mouse button and an alpha strike (minus the main gun(s)) on my right mouse button and leave the rest; when equipping my Gauss Rifle I'll put the Gauss on weapons groups three through six as well so there are five lights turning green around the crosshairs when it's ready instead of just one.

[PhoenixFire55]

Only people who complain about poptarts being OP are same people who are too scared to go and brawl them up. SRMs, AC20 and LBXs kill all poptarts in the matter of seconds.

[Bront]

Poptarting is about to get a nerf as they bring JJs in line. We'll find out in a few hours.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

I don't mind poptarters, though I never could pull it off. I did love running a 3D PPC Gauss brawler with sniping options though. Apparently I couldn't meta as well as the meta was metaing, so I found great success with my own style of play. At least until they made the gauss a major pain in the ass to use...

So today I learned that the meta adapted to the changes, and started using PPC+AC5? Well shit, who could have guessed? And since Jump Jets are still evil, today they're going to "change" them again? Well. Wake me up when it's all over.

I hope they don't make jump jets suck again, but if they do, I won't care as much. I've been playing other games.

[DONTOR]

All I can say is the poptarts were out in force last night getting in as much jump sniping as they could before todays patch, they are worried but well see if its really going to change much.

[JigglyMoobs]

Close victory!!! 1273 damage, but surprisingly not the highest damage on my team!!!