35 replies to this topic

[Bobby Blast]

I run a pre-made lance typically consisting of an Atlas D-DC, Hunchback ©, Centurion (H), and a Highlander. Our Hunchback and Centurion do a fantastic job of escorting the Assaults into combat and when we finally arrive into the mix There is a great firefight worthy of song...
2 things happen when our lance arrives. 1) The PuGs follow us into the breach as we punch a hole into the front line and we walk through the enemy similar of heroic tales of old. 2) 2 PuG lances are trying to "support" us by poptarting or worse sniping from well outside of maximum range and we get shot down like dogs.
I could use some suggestions here because I often spectate several mechs per game "sniping" for 10 minutes who end a match legged only having done 95 damage. I really don't see the point of people doing this but then again I charge and do 600+ damage and go out in a blaze of glory.

Edited by Bobby Blast, 06 March 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Spawnsalot]

Maybe a quick note in team chat? "4 man here guys, punching through - anyone fancy backing us up?"

Then maybe wait for a reply before charging in alone.



Edit: Liking your own post? Oh how gauche!

Edited by Spawnsalot, 06 March 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[Davers]

You need to communicate. You can't just hope the Pugs are watching the minimap and predicting what you will do. Also, bring a UAV. Nothing gets people's attention like a mass of red triangles appearing.

[Jon Gotham]

You can try but I don't think you'll have much success. Pugs are like herding sheep frankly.
Most want you to go first so you get hit so they can shoot from safety. I notice very rarely people taking any initiative or any risks. An awful lot of self interest out there from the playerbase...

[SniperCon]

I prefer the timid PUG to the not a care in the world PUG. You know the one. The one who runs max speed into enemy contact.

[Majorfatboy]

Here's a thought: Maybe you should have stayed with the rest of the team instead of Leroying your way into the heart of the enemy?

Also: Not everyone is good / bad at the same style of gameplay. Some folks are bad at point-blank brawling, but are good at ranged combat. These players have probably fitted their mechs accordingly. Why, in the name of all that is groovy, would said player join the front charge? Or how about light mechs? They're great skirmishers and harassers, but they're not the best choice for frontal assault. Would you really expect them to charge in with you as opposed to hanging back and waiting for a better opportunity? How about LRM players? Yeah, I'm sure they'd love to charge into a short-ranged brawl with weapons that don't arm within 180 meters.

I've seen My share of players / teams like you who charge right through the open without even considering the terrain, enemy placement, friendly placement, communication or lack there of factor, ect, and basically just expect everything to work out. Then you get the boots put to you and blame the team.

" but then again I charge and do 600+ damage and go out in a blaze of glory."

In other words, you charged in like a lemming, did a ton of damage, got slaughtered, and lost the round for your team by depriving them of four mechs as soon as the match started.

Gee, I wonder why you're having problems.

[JigglyMoobs]

If you see me "sniping for 10 min" I'll likely be doing >800 points of damage, criting many components and killing at least a couple of mechs.

Not everybody has the right build to charge through and they might be seeing something else in the battle field from their vantage point that you are not seeing from yours.

If you make a break through send out a few team chat messages in ALL CAPS like:

"PUSH PUSH PUSH D4 D4 D4"

etc. Repeat the message a few times to get their attention. Don't worry about pissing people off. If they actually get mad at you for spamming good info, they are not they type of person who is going to contribute much to your victory anyways.

Some times you get the right position, make the push at the right time, spam all the correct messages and the team doesn't follow. Well, that's an unfortunate part of PUG life I'm afraid.

Other times however, you might see people poptarting and you might want to take a closer look, reassess your push, etc. For example the poptarts might have spotted a flanking force, or recognized a large enemy concentration near the area where you are trying to push into, or they may just be trading really well (ie putting out a lot more damage than they are taking in). A little patience can go a long way in those situations. Your lance could act as security for the snipers to do their work, then clean up after they've weakened the enemies sufficiently.

Bottom line is, a straight push by a 4 man is not always the optimal tactical. Having played in Charlie lance for many moons, and carried or almost carried many a 4 man, I can tell your PUGs are not always the morons you think they are. In fact they may know something you don't.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 06 March 2014 - 04:34 PM.

[Twinkie D Lite]

You cant fix stupid. If they are unable to read weapon descriptions what can you do?

[Grey Rabbit]

While load outs are a HUGE factor in this, don't forget that there's a button to take command. It'll increase your cat herding efficiency by about 50%.

-Rabbit

[WVAnonymous]

And as a PUG, if I see 4 mechs wading into a battleblob of 8-10 mechs, I can go hunting for the strays...

Don't worry, sometime in late 2012 we'll get persistent community warfare that will reward cooperative play and winning...

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Expecting to much of the PuGs and not killing 8 of the enemy to tip the scales. The path to victory revolves around you learning to decimate 2/3's of the enemy to allow your 8 PuGs to kill the last 4. Does this work all the time...nope....then again PuGs don't either. I run 4 mans nightly and our wins out weigh out losses by only a small percentage but our victories usually mean that my 4 man has killed 6-8 of the enemy team and this allows our PuGs a chance to get a few for a win. If they can't kill the last 4 we gladly mop up.

[WVAnonymous]

Werewolf486, on 07 March 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

Expecting to much of the PuGs and not killing 8 of the enemy to tip the scales. The path to victory revolves around you learning to decimate 2/3's of the enemy to allow your 8 PuGs to kill the last 4. Does this work all the time...nope....then again PuGs don't either. I run 4 mans nightly and our wins out weigh out losses by only a small percentage but our victories usually mean that my 4 man has killed 6-8 of the enemy team and this allows our PuGs a chance to get a few for a win. If they can't kill the last 4 we gladly mop up.

Yes, those worthless pugs, depending on the brave 4-man teams to save the day... No wait

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

WVAnonymous, on 07 March 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Yes, those worthless pugs, depending on the brave 4-man teams to save the day... No wait

Ok, but I wonder how many times you get killed before you have a mega damage match like that one, blind squirrel get a nut and all. One screen shot like that tells me nothing as when it's based on this game. We stomp the EU all day long and get some real challenges during the evening. You're stalkers load out is the only thing that interests me. I would love to see how you managed that score with such a lackluster chassis.

Oh and if you are that good then somebody made the tactical mistake of leaving you alone long enough to do that. So yeah I doubt you're that good all the time.

Edited by Werewolf486, 07 March 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

WVAnonymous, on 07 March 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Yes, those worthless pugs, depending on the brave 4-man teams to save the day... No wait

Nice screenshot but it means nothing.
My lance usually, and I do mean usually not all the time of course-ends up with highest damage, kills and score. Why? Because we ACT. We do something. The vast majority of the time pugs do tend to cower in cover. A lot of the time I think it might be due to not communicating very well and others because they want anyone else to tank hits for them.
Earlier today, I was pugging it. I had to charge 5 mechs in my Jaeger because the other 6 pugs simply would not push against them. We had 2 assaults and three heavies in that group.....
After I had gone over the top and killed 2 of the enemy and died, they FINALLY decided it was safe. After WATCHING ME DIE.

I don't have a good opinion of pugs because I have found in my own experience if you offer advice you get attitude, if you try to do something you get no support......it can be very frustrating!
I've had games like that stalker player did-in much smaller mechs (read:35 tons) whilst pugging-all it proves is enemy team let me do it. I made a few good choices and had a dose of luck-nothing more.

Getting all uptight and defending puggers isn't cool-as the one thing that any friends I get to try this game notice is........the silence and timidity of the playerbase.....

The only thing that gets hurt when you die in MWO is your epeen-so why the cowering?

[WVAnonymous]

Just challenging the superiority complex of the "we never lose unless the pugs fail us" team players. Many 4-man players have nothing but anecdotes of pugs relentlessly sucking, I counter with an example of the pugs not sucking.

[Hellen Wheels]

Bobby Blast, on 06 March 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

I run a pre-made lance typically consisting of an Atlas D-DC, Hunchback ©, Centurion (H), and a Highlander. Our Hunchback and Centurion do a fantastic job of escorting the Assaults into combat and when we finally arrive into the mix There is a great firefight worthy of song...
2 things happen when our lance arrives. 1) The PuGs follow us into the breach as we punch a hole into the front line and we walk through the enemy similar of heroic tales of old. 2) 2 PuG lances are trying to "support" us by poptarting or worse sniping from well outside of maximum range and we get shot down like dogs.
I could use some suggestions here because I often spectate several mechs per game "sniping" for 10 minutes who end a match legged only having done 95 damage. I really don't see the point of people doing this but then again I charge and do 600+ damage and go out in a blaze of glory.

Use the battle map and plant flags / directions for your PuGs. It only takes a second or two, and with three support mechs you should be able to use the command interface as HQ while your team is handling perimeter / HQ defense.

I for one appreciate it when someone takes the time to convey that type of info, you'd be surprised how eagerly folks will respond, at least in my experience. YMMV.

[Jon Gotham]

WVAnonymous, on 07 March 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

Just challenging the superiority complex of the "we never lose unless the pugs fail us" team players. Many 4-man players have nothing but anecdotes of pugs relentlessly sucking, I counter with an example of the pugs not sucking.

Fair enough:P
In my experience, my 4 loses for two main reasons:
We get beat by another 4 man that is just better than us. Fair enough a "gg"is in order.
Your 8 puggers basically roll over and die doing almost nothing Lets face it-this scenario happens... A LOT.
But I do feel they get defended a bit too much.In a game where it costs you nothing to die or lose...there really isn't an excuse for cowering frankly. As I mentioned anyone that sees the game I have introduced notices this timidity very early on-apparently its quite a stark, stand out thing compared to other games. From my own experience from Warthunder and WoT-dying and losing there can make you lose money BIG-yet play is more aggressive and fluid....pug players seem much less confused and scared-why?

I wonder if it is the lack of decent communication in game that causes the milling and sheep-like herd instinct behaviour.
Is it the stupid pp alpha meta that makes people scared to pop out of cover?
Is it self interest? Do they want others to take hits for them so they can leech more damage?
Is it poor awareness and interpretation of events surrounding them? Can they just not understand the flow of battle?
Is it selfishness? I like to snipe so that's what I'll do regardless!

I honestly don't know what it is that causes it-but I have never played an online game where the general population carry on in such a timid, almost cowardly manner. I've never played a game where I have logged off because of that timidity.

[WVAnonymous]

kamiko kross, on 08 March 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

I wonder if it is the lack of decent communication in game that causes the milling and sheep-like herd instinct behaviour.
Is it the stupid pp alpha meta that makes people scared to pop out of cover?
Is it self interest? Do they want others to take hits for them so they can leech more damage?
Is it poor awareness and interpretation of events surrounding them? Can they just not understand the flow of battle?
Is it selfishness? I like to snipe so that's what I'll do regardless!

partially

not the alpha meta, but if you are the only target for 3+ mechs your lifespan is in seconds

could be; if you are a KDR junkie being in the second wave helps

for the first 1000 matches that is likely

true for all players, everyone has a playstyle or two they prefer and some snipe

[Jon Gotham]

WVAnonymous, on 08 March 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

partially

not the alpha meta, but if you are the only target for 3+ mechs your lifespan is in seconds

could be; if you are a KDR junkie being in the second wave helps

for the first 1000 matches that is likely

true for all players, everyone has a playstyle or two they prefer and some snipe

Points worth thinking about there-trouble is what can we do about it as a community?

[nehebkau]

When someone in text-chat writes:

"4-man VOIP here" I will usually stick to them like glue and follow their lead.