16 replies to this topic

[Josin Kane]

Like the title implies. I've been messing around with them, looking at smurfy builds but I've yet to find something that sticks. Maybe I could narrow it down if I knew what they were intended for in game rather than table top (which apparently is two different things). Also, are they better off with XL engines or standard?

[Marauder3D]

They don't seem to spread damage quite as well as the Shad or Grifffin to me, but I'm just starting to dabble as I finish mastering out my 2 favorite Grifs.

I've got the 6R with an XL and Ultra/5 with SRMs. Hit reg seems to still be problematic, but its OK. The 7K I have as a pulse boat and the jury is still out. Lastly, the 6k is just yuck, and I want to basic it and sell it. That says a lot because I absolutely abhor selling mechs. The 6k is just that bad I think.

[Tremendous Upside]

Wolvies are solid mechs. The 6k and 7k - pure speed is what they do. They both work well as fast striker/skirmishers. The 6k is a little more vulnerable with most of its firepower on the right arm - but it's honestly not that bad. The 7k is very similar but obviously does missiles better. Streaks work great and if SRMs get fixed this'll probably be one of the scariest mechs in the game. 115kph with a 45-50pt alpha strike (that lands reliably)? It'd be brutal (and it already is when the shots register).

The 6R is sort of the odd one out (and my personal favorite). Dual AC5s or an AC5/AC2 combo with 3 streaks and the head laser make it a nasty support mech. It's nothing you can't do on a shadowhawk... but it works very well all the same. Between the gun-arm and the streaks, you can pretty much land any shot you take at any angle. No torso locking on this guy - and that's sort of what differentiates it from the SHD. You can pretty much be fully above a target at point blank range and still land ALL of your shots (minus the ML).

As for the question about XLs - really no reason not to take them on the Wolvy. If you go standard you will survive longer, but you'll protect your vitals better by being fast. Really fast on the 6k/7k. I run one on my 6R even though it's a hair under stock speed - but there's no way I'd fit all that junk in without it... A necessary evil .

[TygerLily]

Ran lots of weird stuff on the Wolverines...I finally settled on:

-6K
XL375 (120kph! Zoom!)
2 ERLL
3 smalls
1 streak 2


-6R
XL300 (97kh)
LBX10 (3 tons ammo)
3 streak 2 (1 ton ammo)
1 MPL

-7K
XL300 (97kph)
3 LRM 10 (7 tons ammo)
2 ML
TAG

Edited by TygerLily, 06 March 2014 - 10:19 AM.

[Gyrok]

6K:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e719bd91b458f04

6R:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...938f448563994ef

7K:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...51506d8c4bf8e77

Those are my faves so far

[Myke Pantera]

I am talking to much about mechs i don't even own, but can't help it.

For the 7K i'm planing something like this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3fbb584c19c904b

LRMs and Streaks are for Griffins, and the Wolverine looks a little stuffed, but relatively small so it might make a good SRM brawler. Most people argue that brawlers don't use XLs but i don't know... STD engines make you either slow or underpowered or both. And with mediums you should try to flank anyway, and there you need to be reasonably quick and hit hard, so XL 4TW. But than again, i haven't tried it myself, am no pro and so this build might be utter rubbish ^^

[Roughneck45]

I think all the Wolverines make excellent brawlers, stuffing them with SRMs and Mlas and as big a standard engine as you can fit.

[Inflatable Fish]

a 6R with two ac/2, three streaks and a med on top of an XL300 and five JJs is a force to be reckoned with for sure. plenty of 700 damage matches in that one for me.

[LauLiao]

Myke Pantera, on 10 March 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

I am talking to much about mechs i don't even own, but can't help it.

For the 7K i'm planing something like this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3fbb584c19c904b

LRMs and Streaks are for Griffins, and the Wolverine looks a little stuffed, but relatively small so it might make a good SRM brawler. Most people argue that brawlers don't use XLs but i don't know... STD engines make you either slow or underpowered or both. And with mediums you should try to flank anyway, and there you need to be reasonably quick and hit hard, so XL 4TW. But than again, i haven't tried it myself, am no pro and so this build might be utter rubbish ^^

This is basically what I did with my 7K, only I left off the artemis in favor of more JJs and ammo. Pretty nasty when you can get in close. Works best running support with a nice big brawler assault to draw fire. Kind of a sitting duck on wide-open maps like Alpine though.

[aniviron]

As a non-premium tier pleb, I don't have access yet; but if I ran one it would be this, because I'm stupid. That thing is going to do a TON of damage up close, and it gets close really quickly. That said, it's a bit fragile, and dependent entirely on ammo. Even still, it's the spiritual successor to the CN9-AH but with a jump jet, and really, what more could you ask for? (Well, you could ask for working SRMs. This build will be pretty bad as long as SRMs continue to not work, but it would be amazing if they did.)

[Koniving]

Lore, and if armor was somewhat true to stock... Wolverines are "command mechs," "Chargers," "Brawlers" by Battletech description.

The Wolverines have the best armor of any 55 ton mech, stock.

....But our armor isn't limited by some amount above stock, all 55 ton mechs can equip the same armor, even the armor deficient Shadowhawk who has the lowest stock armor of any 55 ton mech. (The Shadowhawk 2D2 starts with the armor of a Raven 2X and the Shadowhawk 5M has the armor of a Centurion AL. That's like 14 points above a Hunchback).

They work well with streaks and energy weapons. They jump very well and have impressive vertical arm range. I literally leap frog and shoot things dead.

Lasers are barely -- read NOT AT ALL -- affected by jumpjet thrust. Neither are streaks. Enjoy!

[Mechteric]

I didn't much like the Wolverines, their weapons hardpoints are pretty inferior to the Griffon's, at least until SRMs are useful again. Once SRMs are fixed they should be capable brawlers alongside the oldschool CN9-A's.


Here's what I ran my Wolve's with anyway:

WVR-6K - "Fast" energy build, 2LPL with 3ML
WVR-6R - 2xAC5 with Streaks
WVR-7K - 3ML with 16xASRM, for when SRMs work

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 11 March 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Treat them like 55 ton spiders and they perform pretty well. I use mine to hunt Lights and chase them off from my lance/team and it's pretty good at that.

[RiotHero]

TygerLily, on 06 March 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

Ran lots of weird stuff on the Wolverines...I finally settled on:


-6R
XL300 (97kh)
LBX10 (3 tons ammo)
3 streak 2 (1 ton ammo)
1 MPL

I don't have the mech but, this buid is very similar to a mech I do have.

That 6r is almost exactly like my champ Cent except the cent has one more medium.
I think it's the build I've finally settled with because, it has been doing great for me. The
streaks and lb prey on lights so well and then you can use the medium to knock off any
open parts. It's even better when those parts are the legs. Plus you still have a decent
punch against anything and good dps with the lb.

[Zolaz]

I hate to tell you this but SRMs are fine if you know how to use them. The Wolverine is fine if you know how to use it. I started playing these variants after the Medium vs the World after going to the number 4 slot in a SRM Centurion. The Wolverine built like a zombie centurion with jump jets is fun to play.

[HlynkaCG]

Koniving, on 11 March 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

Lore, and if armor was somewhat true to stock... Wolverines are "command mechs," "Chargers," "Brawlers" by Battletech description.

The Wolverines have the best armor of any 55 ton mech, stock.

....But our armor isn't limited by some amount above stock, all 55 ton mechs can equip the same armor, even the armor deficient Shadowhawk who has the lowest stock armor of any 55 ton mech. (The Shadowhawk 2D2 starts with the armor of a Raven 2X and the Shadowhawk 5M has the armor of a Centurion AL. That's like 14 points above a Hunchback).

It's worth noting that this is how it was in table top. Armor was bought by the tonne (or half tonne) and then allocated as you saw fit. The max armor a mech could carry was always 1/5 your tonnage plus a baseline determined by your mech's class.

The primary benefit of FF was that by being lighter, it actually raised the maximum numberof armor points that could be allocated.

for instance a Hunchback had a max armor of 169 (338 in MWO). (50 tonnes / 5) * 16 points per tonne of armor + 9 points for being a medium. With FF granting 18 points per tonne as opposed to 16 the HBK's max armor became 189 (or 378 in MWO terms).



(338 in MWO)

[Koniving]

HlynkaCG, on 12 March 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

[/size]

It's worth noting that this is how it was in table top. Armor was bought by the tonne (or half tonne) and then allocated as you saw fit. The max armor a mech could carry was always 1/5 your tonnage plus a baseline determined by your mech's class.

The primary benefit of FF was that by being lighter, it actually raised the maximum numberof armor points that could be allocated.

for instance a Hunchback had a max armor of 169 (338 in MWO). (50 tonnes / 5) * 16 points per tonne of armor + 9 points for being a medium. With FF granting 18 points per tonne as opposed to 16 the HBK's max armor became 189 (or 378 in MWO terms).

(338 in MWO)

I'm well aware. But in tabletop, there are no hardpoints. In tabletop, all mechs of equal tonnage can use equal engines.
Example All Ravens Can Use the Same Engines and the same weapons and the same ECM.

But we have artificial limits preventing ECM equipment, preventing equal engine ratings, prevent equal hardpoints.

Yet PGI favored certain mechs with more speed. Favored certain ones with better hardpoints. And they happen to start with a lot less armor than the 'crappy' variants.

A non-equal armor concept would help fix that.

Take a look at every 'meta' mech there is. What do they mainly have in common at stock? Very low armor in exchange for their high speed and high firepower. What if that stayed?

What if they couldn't get equal armor to mechs with inferior hardpoints, speed, etc?

The point is all the limits artificial. Why not level it out by limiting the one thing left?

Spoilered because off topic, but...

Spoiler

Koniving, on 09 March 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Armor concept... dun dun dun. +1 to Firestarter engine cap.
Engine caps in general should be x number of ratings above stock.

Koniving, on 10 March 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Hence armor concept. Look at those Ravens again. Then all the light mechs.
Now imagine Variant Stock Armor + 3 tons (96 points) = Variant New Max Armor. Apply to all mechs.
The Raven got a boost above the current max, it's true. But is the Raven 3-L all that great, then? Yes, it has great speed. Even if it'd be slower than it's top speed now due to x amount of ratings above stock. But what about that armor or total lack of it compared to the other Ravens?

Simply at stock, the Raven 4X has better armor than 1 out of 3 Shadowhawks. The Raven 2X has equal armor to the weakest armored, most firepower powerful Shadowhawk. Both the Ravens 4X and 2X have better armor than one of the Jagers, the Raven 4X has slightly better armor than the Jager DD which makes the Raven 4X better armored than 2 out of 3 Jagers.

The Firestarters would yield as only slightly better than the Raven 3-L in armor. The best Firestarter armor-wise in the cbill range is the FS9-A, equal to a Raven 2X. The hero Ember is equal in armor to most of the Firestarters and inferior to the FS9-A.

The only competing Jenner to the Raven 4X would be the Jenner F -- arguably the "worst" in 'meta' of the Jenners due to the lack of missile ports. Oh look, having almost twice the armor of any other Jenner makes up for that!

Commandos and Cicadas would be on equal terms in armor. Commandos with better turning ability already built into the game and much cooler running. That kinda screws Cicadas, right? Maybe with the exception being that with all mechs having x amount of engine ratings above stock, thus Cicadas would become the second fastest mech in the game -- significantly faster than their cooler running, more agile, and significantly smaller Commando brothers in armor limits.

Locusts are now the fastest, with armor comparable to a Jenner D to make up for the lack of firepower and suddenly viable!

The Jenner D would remain the most powerful Jenner in terms of firepower and weaponry, but would have to yield due to lack of armor. However, unlike the Jenner F, the Jenner D would probably have an easier time using a bigger engine since the Jenner F would be carrying significantly more weight in armor.

The chain reaction spreads throughout the game, instantly balancing and shifting the game in favor of the 20 years of balancing that has occurred throughout Battletech's history.

Victors become armor inferior to many mechs, allowing for its immense firepower and jumpjets to come at a price.

The Awesomes become superior in armor to Stalkers and comparable to Battlemasters.

Atlases actually become tough to kill instead of the jokes they are (but that's okay, getting behind one always works!)

The Hunchback reclaims medium mech superiority in armor over the Shadowhawk in exchange for less speed.
The Shadowhawks would never use said speed, instead channeling weight into maximum ranged firepower as two of them can't fight too well in brawling range -- becoming lore friendly again. After all, Shadowhawks are by lore 55 ton recon mechs, forward artillery spotters, and fire support. Not brawlers. Leave that to the almighty Hunchback.

Griffins and Kintaros both are armor superior to 2 out of 3 Shadowhawks (some variants armor superior to all 3 Shadowhawks) with Kintaros becoming the second most armored medium in the game currently.

Wolverines become, as akin to lore, the most armored medium mech currently in MWO. "Command" medium mechs, "Forward chargers," "Brawlers" are used in the Wolverine's description.

Lore settles back in. The game becomes significantly more balanced. Metas change from the choice between high pinpoint alphas or gimped... to "maximum firepower" or "maximum armor" or "maximum speed" or "good firepower and speed" or "good firepower and armor" or "good speed and armor" or "jack of all trades where it's moderate in all 3 categories."

Koniving, on 10 March 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

Indeed. Certain things can be done for future mechs.

Example, if another Trebuchet situation comes up a change in how it's shaped or its size could make up for its other flaws. Or if it's just the variant that gets screwed then giving it better hardpoints is pretty easy.

Hardpoints themselves are an artificial concept started in MW4, so a mech having better hardpoints than another isn't because they were like that in lore, but because PGI tacked them in. Case in point, Awesome 8Q having 7 energy. The source has 4 energy weapons mounted. The others? Added for fun.

Much like the current engine caps. All 35 ton mechs had two engine choices. 175 or 245. I believe there's a third choice higher, and another lower. But that's it, and it was a limit for ALL 35 ton mechs. So the Jenner having a higher engine cap than the Raven? Added in by PGI. The Ravens 2x and 4x would, by tabletop rights, be able to equip identical engines to the Jenners, Firestarters, and Raven 3-L.

So if we're going to throw in engine caps to promote diversity between them, and hardpoints to promote diversity between them, we need individual armor caps to finish the job otherwise some variants are simply superior in every aspect.

The "best" mechs with the best firepower and speed...always had terrible armor. But the game doesn't support it right now.

Koniving, on 10 March 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Indeed. And said armor concept would boost their armor a bit. It'd even boost the light mech's armor a bit. But it'd boost every mech's armor equally (96 points or 3 tons more) based on a stock value. A cap in the engine like 4 to 6 ratings above stock would go a really long way, too. There's only two things to change after that. Streak's and their physics defying ability to turn. And possibly -- though not actually necessary -- the autocannons.

The reason I say not necessary is the only real threats with twin AC/20s now carry less armor than half the lights and most mediums. Twin AC/20 Cicada? Extinct. Twin AC/20 Blackjack? Possible, it'd have about as much armor as a twin AC/20 Jagermech. Which is a comical thought considering how easily it's killed. The Boom Catapult would come back, but honestly the Dragon has more armor than a Catapult after these changes...

Oh the diversity that would ensue.

Edited by Koniving, 12 March 2014 - 03:14 PM.