17 replies to this topic

[Kaeb Odellas]

So Assault Mode has a problem.

With the addition of turrets and the length of the cap timer, cap victories basically only happen after the victorious force has destroyed most of their enemies and doesn't want to waste their time looking for the last Spider who has buggered off and shut down somewhere on the other side of Terra Therma.

Even when an early cap victory was possible, it was still a poor way to win a match, as you've ended up spending most of the match standing in a square as opposed to doing fun things, like shooting giant robots in the face with lasers. You got very poor rewards at the end of the match, since the game rewards combat performance, and not standing in a box for 2 minutes, and everyone else generally got mad at you for preventing them from shooting mechs in the face with lasers.


So I propose a change:
Instead of ending the game then and there with a victory, a successful capture should provide game-altering effects that affect how the actual mech-shooting game plays out.

Friendly Buffs:
Since they replaced the drilling platform with a mobile HQ thing, capturing the base can provide benefits to the capturing team, that may include:

-Provide capturing team with the locations of every enemy mech still currently alive in the game
-Prevent the enemy team from capturing your own base.
-Turn the enemy's base turrets against them.
-Locks out your own base to prevent the enemy from capturing it until they recapture their base

These are all just examples. If you have better ideas, please post them.

Enemy Debuffs:
Allowing your base to be captured could also impact you negatively with some debuffs. These can include:

-Disabling the sharing of targeting info between friendly mechs. (Perhaps the HQ contained the C3 master system?)
-After, say 5 minutes of your base being captured, an artillery strike lands on a random mech on your team every 30 seconds. If you're the last one on your team, then buckle up!
-If time runs out and your base is still captured, you automatically lose.


To make enemy bases more inviting targets for capture, you can decrease the capture time to one minute, but make it reset if the capturing mech leaves the square. Multiple mechs cannot increase the rate of capture, and the capturing mech must continually face the HQ.This means that capturing requires a team effort, as the capture mech would not be able to defend himself. Recapturing your base would work the same way as capturing the enemy's.

Again, these are just examples. Post more ideas if you have them!

Turtling:

To prevent teams from just turtling, you can add a third objective in the center of the map that acts as a tie-breaker at the end of the round. Whichever team holds the center while still holding their base, wins at time-out, regardless of who has the most kills.



I think this system, or something like it, would make Assault mode a far more dynamic, instead of just Skirmish with an option to cap the base instead of play "hunt the spider".

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 13 March 2014 - 11:51 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Okay, so why did my thread get moved to this forum? It would have been totally appropriate in Maps and Modes where someone might be able to see it, instead of being instantly buried in Feature Suggestions.

[BlackDeathLegion]

Any fresh ideas to make this "A Thinking Persons Shooter", wont ever happen due to most people/society having "A.D.D." wanting a "easy and quick way" type of game play.

example: Now a days we got technology for TVs, that turns your TV on by saying "TV ON". When did it become "too hard" to pick up a remote, press a button? LOL

[Gyrok]

Err...assault mode is better with turrets...FAR more engaging that way...just saying.

If your complaint is from a light mech perspective, then try something else...there are mechs from 45 tons and up in the game too...

[RamsoPanzer]

I dont know if the ideas of this thread are good, but the only thing i know is that anything will be better than the shit that assault mode has become.

P D : Not talking about PUG matches

Edited by RamsoPanzer, 12 March 2014 - 02:30 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Gyrok, on 12 March 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Err...assault mode is better with turrets...FAR more engaging that way...just saying.

If your complaint is from a light mech perspective, then try something else...there are mechs from 45 tons and up in the game too...

What's engaging about it? It's still effectively Skirmish, only certain areas must be avoided because you'll take pointless damage from turrets. Threatening a base cap is basically eliminated as a valid tactic due to early warning from the turrets. The only real difference between this and Skirmish is that the weaker team can simply hide behind their turrets, effectively stalemating the game if the stronger team doesn't want to engage and risk the loss if they are too damaged to withstand the turrets.

It has the potential to turn what could be real close nail-biters into long, boring waiting for the clock to run out.

EDIT:
It's not really the turrets that are the sole issue. The whole concept of a capture ending the game then and there is just boring. There's no dynamism to it. The cappers just stand in the box and wait for the ticker to go down. If the enemy sends defenders back, then the cappers either fight it out or leave. If the enemy ignores them, then they end the game with a victory, but without having done anything actually fun. They literally just stood in the box for a minute, and then the game ended.

About the only interesting mechanic with capping is that the enemy may send too many defenders back and get crushed by your main force, or they send fewer than you committed to the cap but just enough to stall your cap attempt, and your main force is defeated. All of that is gone now, with the inclusion of turrets.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 12 March 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

How come no poll?

[Kaeb Odellas]

PaintedWolf, on 12 March 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

How come no poll?

I didn't intend for this thread to be in the Feature Suggestions forum, but a mod moved it there after I made it.

Poll added.

[Stardancer01]

Gyrok, on 12 March 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Err...assault mode is better with turrets...FAR more engaging that way...just saying.

Assault mode was better with mechs that defend their base


New game mode suggestion (No-mans-land)
Basically a map with two rows of turrets with a gap in between big enough so they don't shoot each other...

[Shlkt]

I really like the idea of base capture leading to additional advantages for the firefight rather than outright victory. However, with the current implementation of base defense turrets, this sort of change would have a very detrimental effect on how the match plays out.

It's already very rare to see teams assault the base. You soak up too much damage from turrets (unless you're extremely coordinated, which doesn't generally happen in PUGs), putting you at an extreme disadvantage if the enemy manages to engage your capping force.

The only reason people still attempt to cap on occasion is because you can win the game outright if it's successful. If the reward was anything less then there would be even less incentive for such a risky maneuver.

If turrets were nerfed a bit then I could see this idea being very beneficial to how the game plays out. Base capture = targeting information for entire enemy team = free LRM locks, etc... Nowhere for enemy 'mechs to hide.

[Joseph Mallan]

BlackDeathLegion, on 12 March 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Any fresh ideas to make this "A Thinking Persons Shooter", wont ever happen due to most people/society having "A.D.D." wanting a "easy and quick way" type of game play.

example: Now a days we got technology for TVs, that turns your TV on by saying "TV ON". When did it become "too hard" to pick up a remote, press a button? LOL

A few decades after it became to hard to get up and turn on the TV across the room. I was around when the V remote was a really big deal and only had 2 buttons.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 March 2014 - 08:11 AM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Stardancer01, on 13 March 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Assault mode was better with mechs that defend their base


New game mode suggestion (No-mans-land)
Basically a map with two rows of turrets with a gap in between big enough so they don't shoot each other...

Leaving base defenders was always a bad idea though. If you left a guy at the base to defend, that means your main attacking force is now short a man. If the enemy doesn't attempt a base rush, then your main force is outnumbered and is more likely to get stomped in the big fight.

It was always better to just designate one or two on your team as the base defenders and only send them back if the base was attacked and the main battle wasn't going to be resolved in time, or send them back immediately on larger maps.

Or just turtle, and hope the enemy attack is disorganized and they conga-line to your base. Which was often the case.

[Gofer]

Keab, you may not have wanted this suggestion here, but it really does belong here as a legetimate suggestion to a game change dynamic. Thanks for starting it.

I agree with your premise that there SHOULD be more to an Assault Mission where capturing a base provides a win condition.
Generally speaking, I dont care for most of your suggestions. I believe that they provide for some very messy game mechanics (same capturing mech stays put facing equipment on base) and less than fun game dynamics (what happens when defenders kill that capturing mech - restart ?) that dont add value to our stompy robot game

We SHOULD have an Assault game where all of us "PUGS" learn dynamics and the mission basics BEFORE (if ever) CW begins and we fight for control of planets and solar systems. A smarter Assault option would help that along. I guess I'd better offer a suggestion now. Best to you and THANK YOU for starting this.

[Kaeb Odellas]

The poll is more for the general idea of turning the base capture from an instant-victory to a victory-aid. The particular buffs and debuffs I listed are all just examples. If you have better ideas for them, by all means post them.

EDIT: OP and Poll edited.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 13 March 2014 - 11:52 AM.

[Gofer]

Recommended operational changes to the Assault Mode Play:

1. Correct the Turret system's AUTO ACQUIRE of all mechs, even those cloaked with ECM as follows:
A) Activation of individual Laser turrets by non ECM mech by LOS of enemy unit within 400 M
B ) Activation of individual Missle turrets by non ECM mech by LOS of ENEMY unit within 800 M
C) Activation of individual Missle turrets adjacent to activate laser turrets when enemy is within 800 M of Missle turret.
D) Activation of Individual Laser turrets by ECM mech by LOS of enemy unit within 250 M
E) Activation of Individual Missle turrets by ECM mech by LOS of enemy unit wtihin 250 M
F) Missle turrets are assumed to be equipped with target retention and 360 targeting module technology.
G) Missle and Laser turrets are assumed to be equipped with BAP technology, equal to mech mounted equipment.

These recommended changes to targeting are based on the WRONGNESS of turrets seeming to "break tech" and mysticallly hit everything regardless of mech, terrain or cover. This suggestion should be implemented immediately.

2. Recommend that the Capture Base segment comes with an in-game functionality as per OP.

A) Capture of base becomes a 3 minute (max) long function with 2 stages (Intel download & Jamming/Intercept stages)

A1) Intel download - 60 sec long (uninterupted) allows first capturing mech to download enemy com codes. If interupted by taking damage > 10% mech integrity, or mech leaves base area, it must be re-started. Once complete, Stage 2 begins. Multiple mechs may "begin downloading" simultaneously, once ONE mech is complete, all friendly mechs get announcement "Enemy Com Breached, prepare for upload"

A2) Jamming/Intercept stage - 120 sec long (for single mech, less with more mechs on base to a minumum of 60 seconds)
MINIUM of ONE mech MUST REMAIN ON BASE the remainder of the match to maintain the Jamming/Intercept condition. If, at any time NO players occupy the base once stage 2 has been started, the Jamming/intercept condition cannot be re-established and game timer contniues until time is out, base gets capped out, or last enemy unit is destroyed.

During the Jamming/Intercept stage, the "Breached Team" receives message "Planetside Communication Systems Deactivated" and their minimap / game map will no longer show the locations of friendly units. Enemy units are only shown on the mini map when directly targeted or when a UAV is launched. The Tech assumption is that enemy units have breached planet side HQ Coms, but battlefield conditional coms are still operational for UAV. NARC Beacons will still allow LRMS to home / lock better, but friendly TAG lasers no longer assist cutting through ECM.

During this time, all friendly mechs get announcement "Enemy Com Breached, prepare for upload". At that time, the position of all enemy units appears on friendly mini maps. This a hard com locations and will not allow a mech to target an ecm cloaked mech directly, unless a BAP, PPC, Tag (or some other means) is used to get a LOS Lock. Enemy mechs that are shut down show up on mini map like any other enemy unit.

If the Jamming/Intercept link is lost because no mechs remain in the base area, enemy and friendly mini map systems revert to standard operation with the announcement "Mapping Systems Nominal".

B ) Payout of the win condition be modified as follows:
CBills / XP for team wins remain unchanged if elimination of all enemy units.
C/Bills / XP for teams remain unchanged with the direct cap out of the enemy base.
For teams that Eliminate all enemy units while maintaining a jammed/intercepted condition, a 5% bonus in CBills and XP is provided for the whole team.

This approach encourages team play and tactical communications with the largely pug crowd which is over 80% of active game players. They may not focus fire, nor stay together.. but they damn sure will coordinate who's staying to keep the jamming going... and coordinate to get extra people off base so that the last enemy squirrel unit can be killed and a bonus secured !

3. Sole Survivor Planet Side Evacuation

When pilot finds themself in the unenviable situation of being the last survivor and there is nothing more that can be done to salvage the assault mission, they should have the opportunity to withdraw. The lone unit would simply signal the drop ship for retrieval, move to the pick up zone, and activate pick up beam.

They would be require to signal a drop ship for evac, and, within 15 sec, a pickup zone will be identified on their minimap (using a UAV symbol). That pickup zone location will be a minimum of 500 meters away and a maximum of 1000 meters away. Visually, the drop zone can be identified because the drop ship uses a UAV to illuminate the area. Enemy units CAN see the UAV the same as they see any other in-game UAVs.

The game mechanic for evacuation occurs in the background when there is a single unit left on either side. Once that condition has been met, the sole survivor can type "Evacuate" in the team chat and the sequence will begin.

WIthin 15 seconds, a pickup zone will be identified on their minimap with a UAV. The pickup zone is first marked by the dropship with a UAV located within 500-1000 M away from current position of the sole remaining unit. NOTE: Enemy units CAN see the UAV in the game and destroy it as per normal game mechanics. EVEN IF the UAV is DESTROYED, the UAV symbol will remain on the friendly units mini map.

Once the evacuating unit hs manouvered to within 50 yards of the UAV position, they must stop and signal for pick up (using spacebar). The evacuating unit raises into the sky as if equipped with 6(ish) jump jets then disappears from view at same height as UAV's are flown at.

The evacuating unit is subject to damage as per normal MWO conditions all the way up until it reaches UAV height.. then it is safe and evacuation is complete. Mechs that are killed as they are going up into the sky do NOT complete the evacuation and the mechwarrior who makes the kill shot gets a bonus.

PAYOUT and win conditions:

Evacuating player forfeits all earned CBills, Kills and XP by activating the evacuation sequence.
Evacuating player earns 100K Cbills and 500 XP by evacuating successfully.
Evacuating player earns 25K Cbills and 100 XP by dying during evacuation process.
Pilot who makes kill shot on evacuating pilot earns a bonus equal to the base defense kill values in Cbills/XP.
Evacuating players team earns a 5% increase in CBills and XP if the player evacuates successfully.
Winning team earns 5% less in CBills and XP if an enemy pilot is successfully evacuated.
Winning team earns 5% more in CBills and XP if an evacuating unit is destroyed.

This approach would allow the game to end without running a squirrel to ground on a huge map an allows the remaining mech to withdraw with dignity and rewards the activity and participants with CBills and XP for playing their parts. Looks like a win win.. and really.. who wants to play "find the spider" on Alpine Peaks with 7 minutes left on the clock?

Edited by Gofer, 13 March 2014 - 01:44 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

BlackDeathLegion, on 12 March 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Any fresh ideas to make this "A Thinking Persons Shooter", wont ever happen due to most people/society having "A.D.D." wanting a "easy and quick way" type of game play.

example: Now a days we got technology for TVs, that turns your TV on by saying "TV ON". When did it become "too hard" to pick up a remote, press a button? LOL

The remote was invented because people were to lazy to get off their ass and walk the three steps to the TV in order to change the channel. It was also developed for people who did not have children that could be told to do it for them.

The capture point in an assault match is the goal. Changing that removes the context of the match. One team is essentially the defender, the other the attacker. The defenders camp point is usually in a strategic location that needs to be controlled. The refinery on caustic valley, or river city's old capture point next to the drop ship. Just by being what they are it is clear why those places are important.

The attackers point is usually were the enemy team is launching the actual assault from. The point represents the attack team's lines of communication back to the field army it is attached to. Caustic valley and river city are perfect examples. The docks on river city are where the assaulting force approaches the city, while the caustic valley point is the staging point for attacking the refinery. The mobile HQ is the communications link to the rest of the army and the two teams.

For maps like tourmaline desert both points represent either the drop/rally point the company. By taking that point you are cutting off that team from the rest of their forces. Cutting their lines of communication.

That is the over all context of the assault match. For actual game play it gives the players two ways to win. This also gives the players three important factors to think about when developing a plan. They must protect their point, and either destroy the other team or capture the other teams point. The players that complain about losing to capture refuse to acknowledge the added depths the capture condition brings to the match.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 13 March 2014 - 05:42 PM.

[fandre]

IMHO, there is no additional depth in assault. Are you playing skirmish? There is a lot of tactics movement and dynamics because you are free to do anything. Capturing points forces the team to move to specific locations or to intercept.the enemy. you would "always" know, that the enemy is comming to your base or you have to go to the enemy base. Conquest has a lot more depth than assault IMO.

Assault with two bases defended by towers makes also no real sense to me, because you cant distract the enemy anymore by fake capping etc.

I suggest the following changes:

Conquest: Make cap points different and provide different buffs for the owning team and/or nerfs for the non owning team. Both teams start without a base somewhere on the map. For example (and only as an example): The match starts with the map completly covered in "ECM" or deactivated target information propagation between team members. Take a specific base and map ECM becomes deactivated. Another base grands Sensor boost etc ... Victory condition is still reaching 750 cap points or kill the enemy team.

Assault: Should be changed to Attack/Defense in two rounds. Defenders have a base with turrets.

Skirmish: unchanged

Maybe the can leave assault in the game and add A/D but then, they sould remove/redo the towers.

Edited by fandre, 14 March 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Stardancer01]

It is very hard to add any complexity or depth to the game if evey single mission/game mode has to cater to new players and well as veterans.

It was about time we had a Ter System

Ter 1 = simple missions for starting players, in the house wars era with normal battle mechs.
Ter 2 = more complex missions/game modes in the clan wars era with veteran battle mechs & clan omni mechs.
Ter 3 = much more complex missions in the (fourth?) succession wars era with drop ships, repair bays, and inner sphere omni mechs, and non-honour code clan omni mechs.

We need a lazy/easy/simple system for new players & a system that allows players to enjoy progressing, to much more complex weapons, equipment & missions/game modes.

This is the same way as World of Tanks does its progression with sample game modes for starting players and less sample maps/modes/tanks for veterans.

Edited by Stardancer01, 18 March 2014 - 04:59 AM.