15 replies to this topic

[Nryrony]

Since the addition of turrets in mwo, I have seen a lot of change in 12 man mech setups. In general most units went for higher tonnage. As a result, we have now at least 50% of units that completely dropped their scouts. The units that kept their scouts dropped their number to 1-2 and with a focus on the spider and raven chassis - for ecm, scouting and poking. Enforcing the PPC/AC meta with the addition of AC20 Hawks.

In PUG matches I have seen the change as well, though it was less radical and you still see lances of lights running around. But I guess everyone can feel what turrets did to the game.

Last but not least, many matches of assault-mode are now played as - camp the base and don't move.

In a nutshell, this feels like the opposite of what I would have wished for. What are your thoughts?

[SirLANsalot]

Turrets have changed the game, and for the better too.

They are here in prep for when attack/defend shows up, the first non-killemall mode, which is what Conquest SHOULD be (cap all resources, not kill all mechs).

[Nryrony]

The thing is, I don't see how they improve assault-mode game-play _right now_.

In fact they made it worse by removing the only dynamic element from the mode (scout cap).

So now everyone sits in their own base and wait for the enemy to come. This does not work in a 2 base system.

At least one team needs a reason to attack/cap the enemy base. This could be by force (removing one base for example) and/or by giving them advantages (in fact the attacker should have superior tonnage/or player number) . Another idea might be different spawn points - 2 lances spawn close to the enemy base, while one spawns in your own base - to defend.

(Another idea might be to add method's to gain turret "control" or at least disable them -> mechcommander/MW4)

Edited by Nryrony, 18 March 2014 - 03:56 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nryrony, on 17 March 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Since the addition of turrets in mwo, I have seen a lot of change in 12 man mech setups. In general most units went for higher tonnage. As a result, we have now at least 50% of units that completely dropped their scouts. The units that kept their scouts dropped their number to 1-2 and with a focus on the spider and raven chassis - for ecm, scouting and poking. Enforcing the PPC/AC meta with the addition of AC20 Hawks.

In PUG matches I have seen the change as well, though it was less radical and you still see lances of lights running around. But I guess everyone can feel what turrets did to the game.

Last but not least, many matches of assault-mode are now played as - camp the base and don't move.

In a nutshell, this feels like the opposite of what I would have wished for. What are your thoughts?

Sounds like the players are adapting properly to the environment of the games scenario. Sine all anyone wants to do is kill each other... Cause what else is there to do? So more armor and bigger guns are needed to get the job done.

I have always been an assault pilot in MW:O, I venture out now and again, but I always come home.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 March 2014 - 04:04 AM.

[Bobzilla]

I guess this just proves that a pack of lights is only good for capping? The reason turrets were added was a team that had a pack of lights vs a team that had 1 or none could cap too easy, unless the team stayed at their base. So now one team stays at their base, which if you had no fast mechs you should anyways. It's kinda lookin like the same thing. But there is no longer any matches where 0 damage gets delt before the game ends. Taking out turrets isn't that hard, but it slows down/deters easy caps. I do think with the ability to pick a game mode, and skirmish game mode, there is no real need for turrets in assault.

[trollocaustic]

Before that, you literally had to be lights to win, a simple cap was just godmode,

it's like going frost/frost/restodruid in WoW arenas, having the tank camp just within sight of the survivors and avoid getting hit in L4D (Since the rescue vehicle won't arrive till tank dies),

It's dirty, unfun, cheap, and overpowered.

Now, lights are almost balanced, just the ECM godmode ruining their only counter that isn't named the cicada (SSRM)

[Mcgral18]

Yep, most 12 mans now stay on their base. We had 3 assault game modes end by just waiting outside their base, for 15 minutes, with no kills. Fun stuff.

Pushing the base has a 30% success rate, so it's not the best option either. It's turned into a get a kill, wait them out near the turrets gamemode.

[Casual Joker]

I feel that turrets have given assault mode better identity as to what it is supposed to be....assaulting. Yes, scouts in assault have dwindled and since turrets are new it comes down to balancing (They have only been live for what? a month?). I also like the fact that when i'm in assault my base isn't getting capped in the first 2 minutes of the match because a pack of lights ran around the man enemy force. For those that don't like turrets may I suggest skirmish mode perhaps. I remember someone at PGI saying that MWO is and will always be in a state of improvement, and turrets are one of those. Lets try to keep and open mind and be patient.

[Nryrony]

I don't mind the turrets and if they don't have teeth there won't be a point in having them. May be tracking speed/hit chance vs lights could be lower, but it is okay that the base is guarded to some degree.

However, as stated before, most units dropped their scouts after this change (or only kept 1-2 Spiders/Ravens mainly for pure scouting purposes and a little poking at 500m+).

When you see builds like 4x Highlander 4x Cataphract 4x Shadowhawk/Victor (meta builds with standard engines) defending their base. There seems little reason to bring a long a Jenner or a Firestarter, their weapons alone are to suited for ranged/siege combat, not to mention their armor, while their speed becomes useless due to range and blobbing.

So instead of more diversity we see even more meta, similar to skirmish mode.

Edited by Nryrony, 18 March 2014 - 10:06 AM.

[Candun]

i only really see the base camping on rivercity cause you spawn in your base and in sight of theres and what you expect people to leave there base in that situation?

[Nryrony]

Candun, on 18 March 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

i only really see the base camping on rivercity cause you spawn in your base and in sight of theres and what you expect people to leave there base in that situation?

You are talking about PUG matches, I mostly about 12 vs 12 with fixed teams.

Here game-play changed from "the usual" to stay in base or kill one and hide in base.

However, even in PUG matches (which usually are far from logical) I noticed a tendency to drop the scouts, and overall go heavier.

To come back to your example, I agree with what you are saying, but that's the point! The bases are to close, the positioning simply is bad. In the end the game mode makes no sense, why leave your base if you have the advantage of towers? This needs to change, its not all about the damn towers, its about a reason to move outside the base and to attack.

[Coolant]

Nryrony, on 17 March 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Since the addition of turrets in mwo, I have seen a lot of change in 12 man mech setups. In general most units went for higher tonnage. As a result, we have now at least 50% of units that completely dropped their scouts. The units that kept their scouts dropped their number to 1-2 and with a focus on the spider and raven chassis - for ecm, scouting and poking. Enforcing the PPC/AC meta with the addition of AC20 Hawks.

In PUG matches I have seen the change as well, though it was less radical and you still see lances of lights running around. But I guess everyone can feel what turrets did to the game.

Last but not least, many matches of assault-mode are now played as - camp the base and don't move.

In a nutshell, this feels like the opposite of what I would have wished for. What are your thoughts?

Play Skirmish...

[Nryrony]

Coolant, on 18 March 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Play Skirmish...

Which is the same... just without turrets!

[SirLANsalot]

So far I have not seen this behavior unless its on River City and River City NIght. Almost all games everyone runs out and fights eachother, leaving the turrets to do there job and defend the base from cowardly back-cappers. Only when the game gets down to a few mechs on one side dose anyone run back toward there base to enlist the help of the turrets to maybe turn the game around for them.

[Nryrony]

SirLANsalot, on 18 March 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Only when the game gets down to a few mechs on one side dose anyone run back toward there base to enlist the help of the turrets to maybe turn the game around for them.

Which is not logical, if you got more kills, you can sit in your base with turret cover for the game to end - victory.

I know that's not fun, and usually in PUG you won't see a situation like this, but from a strategic point of view you have no reason to chase an enemy into his base when you got the upper hand.

[Angels Bane]

turrets. the most effective way to turn assault into defence.