57 replies to this topic

[Captn Slow]

Hello there,

first of all, I hope I posted into the right part of the forum. If not please correct me.

I'm completely new to MWO and am looking for some advice. I'm playing now for a couple of days and due to the recruit bonus, I was able to buy my first mech.

I was searching for hours in the forums, which would be a good pick for the first one and was a bit overwhelmed because of thousands of posts with different recommendations.
Second problem was, that there were many old posts from old patches which may be outdated now.

So after all that preparation i bought myself a HBK-4H, which was recommended many times.

So I got equipment and started a few games and ... failed totally.
This one felt like a glasscannon. Every time I got under fire I died so quickly, that I was really frustated.
Even when I came from behind the enemy often just turned around an killed me fast.

I'm pretty sure this one is a good mech, but as it seems not for me.

So I started a new account and don't want to make this mistake again, especially because c-bills take forever to get, after the recruit bonus has faded.

I can't decide if I should buy a Catapult or Jager.
Both seem to be recommended often. Both are affordable.
And even with one of them one has to decide which model.
Really a tough decision for me.

I like both getting into short range or hitting from the backline.
It seemed to me that getting good damage with the trial Stalker was easier than with the other trials.
I'm struggling more with the short range atm. But this can be practiced.
The more damage I can dish out, the better

Anyway, long story short, any help will be much appreciated!
And please forgive me eventual mistakes, as this isn't my first language.

Thanks in advance.

[Koniving]

Captn Slow, on 18 March 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

So after all that preparation i bought myself a HBK-4H, which was recommended many times.

So I got equipment and started a few games and ... failed totally.
This one felt like a glasscannon. Every time I got under fire I died so quickly, that I was really frustated.
Even when I came from behind the enemy often just turned around an killed me fast.


I'm pretty sure this one is a good mech, but as it seems not for me.

The 4H has a heat issue since most of its weapons are energy based.

It is a very difficult mech to start with. Did you give it double heatsinks?
Myself, I collect and play all the variants and I found the 4H to have been the most difficult Hunchback to use, stock or otherwise. If it says anything I only have one video with it.

Captn Slow, on 18 March 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

So I started a new account and don't want to make this mistake again, especially because c-bills take forever to get, after the recruit bonus has faded.

I can't decide if I should buy a Catapult or Jager.
Both seem to be recommended often. Both are affordable.
And even with one of them one has to decide which model.
Really a tough decision for me.

I like both getting into short range or hitting from the backline.
It seemed to me that getting good damage with the trial Stalker was easier than with the other trials.
I'm struggling more with the short range atm. But this can be practiced.
The more damage I can dish out, the better

Anyway, long story short, any help will be much appreciated!
And please forgive me eventual mistakes, as this isn't my first language.

Thanks in advance.

Both are really good mechs. However, both come with a problem. To really shine, both the Catapult and the Jagermech require XL (Extra Light) engines which are really expensive.

The only one of them that does come with this engine is the Jagermech DD.

To really begin with the Jagermech or the Catapult you will need an XL engine. You can get one with the Jagermech DD or you can get one in the Griffin 3M, Wolverine 7K, or the Shadowhawk 5M. No matter which one you get the engine from, it will be at a huge discount versus getting the engine yourself.

Some info on the variants (excluding the heroes).

Jager DD <--Best starting Jager.

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 6 Ballistic. 2 Energy.
Comes with: XL engine. Single heatsinks.
Note: RAISE THAT ARMOR!

Jager S

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 4 Ballistic. 4 Energy.
Comes with: STD engine. Single heatsinks.
Note: Less armor than a Raven 2x. RAISE IT!

Jager A

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 2 Ballistic. 2 Energy. 4 Missile.
Comes with: STD engine. Double heatsink upgrade.
Note: Highest starting armor of stock Jagermechs. It is still lower than the armor of most medium mechs, so raise it.
Arms are easier to hit than any other Jager.

Catapult C1

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 4 Energy 2 Missile
Comes with: STD engine. Single heatsinks. Jumpjets.
Note: That is blood.

Catapult C1-F

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 4 Energy. 2 Missile.
Comes with: STD engine. Single heatsinks. Jumpjets.
Note: Not available. Identical to C1. Epic nose cone.

Catapult A1

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 6 Missile.
Comes with: STD engine. Single heatsinks. Jumpjets.
Note: The Ammunition dependence is high with this one.

Catapult C4

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 4 Missile. 2 Energy.
Comes with: STD engine. Single heatsinks. Jumpjets.
Note: Cannot equip large energy weapons.

Catapult K2 <--Best starting Catapult (Twin AC/20s; doesn't need an XL for that. Or twin AC/5s + lasers)

Spoiler

Weapon Hardpoints: 2 Ballistic. 4 Energy.
Comes with: STD engine. Single heatsinks.
Note: Cannot jump.

And with that, pizza is ready.

Edited by Koniving, 18 March 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[condor1X1]

id get a jager

[no one]

The 'JM6 A' will pull off 'missile platform' handily, and can also be configured to brawl. It's only down side is that it has no Jumpjets, and is a bit soft.

If you're willing to try a lighter 'Mech, the Raven 3L is also a good all-rounder that's a bit more forgiving to new pilots.

[luxebo]

@Koniving, I don't believe DHS is in any variant as of now (C-bill Jagers and Catapults).

Also, to the OP, there is the Firebrand and Jester heroes with 30% C-bill bonus and require real cash, both more reliant on Energy and speed.

[Koniving]

Some videos I've been able to muster up.

Spoiler

Jagermechs.

Spoiler

Most of my Jager DD rigs use an XL 260 engine, so no need to buy a new one.
Jagermech DD Brawling. (Solo) Another short.
Jagermech DD Mixed brawling/support.

Jager DD OR S Support build.
Jager S Brawler (Chase Cam)

Jager A stock.

Catapults.

Spoiler

Catapult C4 brawling example.

Catapult A1 long range (ROFLPULT) missile rig.

Catapult A1 mix-range. Old but still valid. (Same build; back when Forest Colony went really dark.) Became a Champion build.

K2 great starting loadout -- twin AC/20s, small lasers or small pulse lasers. <--If you want to start with a Catapult without an XL engine, this is the route to go. Note in this video I had single heatsinks (there was repair and rearm costs at the time). Even so, it's real easy to overheat with the twin AC/20s fired at once, so fire them one at a time.
Another cheap K2. 4 Medium Lasers and 2 AC/2s.
K2 parody.


Catapult C1 (Chase Cam)

Edited by Koniving, 19 March 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[plodder]

Howdy.

Run the trials till you know what you like.
If you find you like long range missles, close up in your face brawling, or mid range damage dealing, are the heart of which mech you will want.
Also, can you think ahead enough to use a slower mech, or, do you feel the need for speed?
Nothing is wrong, it is just building to your strengths. They will change as you develop.
Catapults are good mechs, but are only elite in the hands of superior players in my opinion.
Jagers have their strengths and weaknesses too.
What weapons do you like, what speeds are you comfortable with?
Are you using 3rd person view, arm lock, what about jump jets?
Let us know. Gl hf

[plodder]

If it is damage you want to deal, with the ability to go from one extreme style of short to long range, to take a punch, but you will be slow, pick a Stalker 5m? Or Atlas. Forgiving mechs, and they are for giving Damage!! Lol

[Turist0AT]

Allways tell new players DO NOT GET A HUNCHIE.

Jägers are more ballistic oriented and Cats are more missile. Take the Jäger, thay are pretty sweet, i think you will like them. And they are smaller targets.

See what the guy above me said and i need to agree STALKERs are complete murder machines but slow. Might need a more experiance with game to pilot them. They dont carry ballistics. Dont get an Atlas tho, they are nr1 target.

To me Stalker is a big brother to Catapult.

Edited by Turist0AT, 19 March 2014 - 12:45 AM.

[Mordynak]

Having piloted Catapults a lot I would say go with a Jager.

Also.... TuristOAT, why not get a Hunchback? Best medium mech I have and I have a few medium mechs.

[Turist0AT]

Mordynak, on 19 March 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

Having piloted Catapults a lot I would say go with a Jager.

Also.... TuristOAT, why not get a Hunchback? Best medium mech I have and I have a few medium mechs.

new players die to easily in them, it's an exercise in frustration.

[foyrkopp]

I disagree. The HBK 4-SP, G & P have been my first 'Mechs and taught me a lot.

@topic

While It is an understandable thing that a certain 'Mech is not for you ('though I like the HBKs), MWO does have a steep learning curve in the beginning - no matter the 'Mech. Getting good in MWO requires patience and experience, that is just how it is.
(Having fun, however, has no such high requirements )

Of the two Chassis' you suggested, the Jagermech seems to be the more income-reliable since ballistics are good in the current meta. More Oomph equals more Damage/Kills/Assists and overall more money.


See you in the field
foyrkopp

[dragnier1]

People normally recommend working on a mech till you complete its elite tier skills to know its true worth. Personally i struggle in most mechs till i complete elite, which doubles their basic tier skills. This is one of the reasons why i suggest not restarting another account, as the mech(s) you purchased may come good by the time you complete elite plus the fact you get more experienced with it along the way.

@OP: since you've already created a new account, just continue using it. Consider that you need 3 different catapult/jagermech variants to clear basic, elite and master tier skills. Consider also that they will use XL engines, which cost more and make your mech more vulnerable (if either side torso is blown you're out of the match). One advantage the jag has is that nobody intentionally shoots off your arms, unlike catapults (the k2 is the exception), which means you can consider placing your ammo there. 1 advantage of catapults is that they torso twist more than jags, you can shoot while running away.

Edited by dragnier1, 19 March 2014 - 02:21 AM.

[RG870]

I really love my Catapult K2 and the Jester but I still would recommend going with the Jagers instead. Before the Gauss nerf I had many 800+ dmg games with my K2 (2x Gauss, 2x ML in torso, funny zombie mech). Since the Gauss has the charge mechanic that build no longer works good. I tried all ACs in the K2 but my average dmg per match significantly dropped. If energy weapons got a little love from the developers the Jester really could shine. But at the current meta it also falls behind the Jagers because ballistics are the way to get most dmg out of a mech.

The Jagers with their high mounted arm ballistics now work better for me. I usually score 600+ with several games with 800+. The Jager was also the first mech in which I broke the "magical" 1000 dmg limit (JM6-S, 2x UAC5, 2x ML, 280XL, lots of ammo). The arm mounted ballistics of all Jagers not only let you hit hard without exposing yourself much to return fire, they also can hit targets above or below your torso where the K2 is a sitting duck.
I would recommend starting with the Jager JM6-A. It's the most versatile Jager so you can play around with 2 ACs / LB-X, Streaks, LRMs and lasers. Like all Jagers it can also be an AC40 (which I don't like much). The high mounted missile slots also make it an interesting LRM boat as you can easily fire over obstacles.
The next Jager could be the JM6-S. With four ballistic slots you can use it with 3 AC2s (kinda hot) or a 2 AC2 + 2 AC5 setup. Add some lasers and you have a really fearsome mech.
If you don't wanna buy the Firebrand for MCs the Jager JM6-DD will be a must to max out the chassis. I'm not a fan of the JM6-DD since heat penalty was introduced. The famous dacca-build (6x AC2) no longer works and the 6 machine gun Jager is more of a troll mech. Ok, with 2 LPLs it can brawl but that huge mech requires a team which makes brawling possible. In the current meta and solo you will die a lot in the machine gun boat.
My personal favorite is the Firebrand. Two ballistics are all I need. I run that thing with dual AC2s, AC5s, UAC5s and LB-X plus 6 MLs (if an enemy comes too close that's another 30 dmg and often an instant kill or lost component) and all those builds just shine. I consistently do 600+ and got the best K/D ratio of all the mechs I own. The two arm mounted energy slots make it even more versatile as you can mount ERLLs or PPCs and have all the benefits the ballistics also have.

As much as I like my Catapults (and I really do) I just have to admit that I do much better in any Jager.

[Pastor Priest]

I would agree with the general recommendation of the Jager. It is more versatile, and can bringng the biggest guns in game.

However, as a new pilot, be mindful of the fact it has easy to hit side torsos, which means when you bring a XL engine (just about a requirement to get the firepower, armor, and speed you need in thats mech), you are vulnerable to destruction via side torso loss. Combined with the lack of lateral arm movement, you should focus on remaining well behind the front line guys and staying out of the brawl. Otherwise, you will be just as frustrated as when yu piloted the Hunchback.

[Buckminster]

Captn Slow, on 18 March 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

So after all that preparation i bought myself a HBK-4H, which was recommended many times.

So I got equipment and started a few games and ... failed totally.
This one felt like a glasscannon. Every time I got under fire I died so quickly, that I was really frustated.
Even when I came from behind the enemy often just turned around an killed me fast.

I'm pretty sure this one is a good mech, but as it seems not for me.

One thing that MWO is very very bad about - it never lets you know exactly how bad most stock mechs are. The Champions are better, because they've been upgraded, but in general you need to spend another 2 million C-bills (minimum) to make it viable. You need to jack up the armor and add DHS, and a lot of mechs don't shine until you add an XL engine on them.

So keep in mind, the Catapult and Jager are no exception. The Cat really needs DHS and a 300XL, and the Jagers also generally need DHS and an XL. Fortunately the Firebrand (hero Jager) and Jager-DD come with XLs, if you go that route, and the Firebrand also has DHS. Only downside of the Firebrand is that it costs actual money.

As for which one to pick, currently I'd say the Jager is the better bet. It's -A chassis can do missiles just like a Catapult, and it's other variants do a good combination of ballistics and energy weapons. It's two big downsides are that it's a wide target, and it can't jump.

The Catapult is still a good mech though. It can do missiles very well, and most variants have energy hardpoints which allow for decent backup weapons (or odd primary weapons, like the 3 large laser C1). The K2 is the oddball, in that it has no missiles, but makes up for it with ballistic hardpoints and extra energy points. It also can't jump.

I own both (Cat -C1, -K2 and -A1; Jager -A, -DD and Firebrand) and they're probably my favorite mechs. The Catapult feels a lot more nimble, but the typically missile-dependent layouts means they can be very situational - hit a large group of ECM and you can be out of luck. LRMs seem like the "easy button" weapon, but it's not that easy to use effectively.

So the TL:DR summary - if you like missiles, get the Catapult. If you like autocannons, get the Jager. Both mechs have variants that cross that line though, so you'll be able to play both no matter what you choose. (And do keep in mind that you'll need three of either chassis to get the most out of it)

Edit: In case no one has pointed you to smurfy's before - check it out. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ It covers the differences in mech hardpoints and layouts in a way that I can't.

Edited by Buckminster, 19 March 2014 - 06:30 AM.

[Corison]

Both are great mechs, and the two primary I run (CTPLT-F and Firebrand) ... Even better the Cat head hitbox was reduced so you don't get 1 shot every other fight now.

As much as I love my Cat's (Mastered them all)... I must say the Jag is better in most respects if you have to start fresh. The only two place were the Cat feels like it has an advantage is in jump jet (which you lose that with the K2 anyways) and in Torso twist/brawling. The Jag has better hard points and they better located for most thing.

Long story short?
I recommend starting with the Jagger if your in doubt..

[plodder]

If you had stuck with your Hunchy, you would learn things. Hmmm, if I run to fight the fresh strong Jager I lose, but, when I use terrain and fellow mechs for cover, I am not a primary target and live closer to the end of the match. Look at them shoot focused fire at the friendly Atlas(to the front and to the side a bit) and at the Jager? It is like they don't see me(unless I have an ac 20,then they always see me and and I am a primary target).

4 to six med lasers are not feared like the big balistics. Why are some mechs on yhe field ignored as primary? Weapons. Why is the Atlas Jager, Stalker,Highlander and Cataphract having all the enemy's weapons trained on them? Quick destruction. I will ignore a Hunchy with 2 large lasers and 3 machine guns, though it may get 500 damage and take down 2 mechs. Blah blah blah, sorry, I got into boring mode there.

Survivability is between the ears, and only you can enforce that;^)

[Koniving]

Turist0AT, on 19 March 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

new players die to easily in them, it's an exercise in frustration.

I've found the most common thing for new players that die easily...is not knowing they can raise the armor. Even hunchbacks can benefit from it, but at least they start pretty high up in the armor.

[Koniving]

plodder, on 19 March 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Survivability is between the ears, and only you can enforce that;^)

Roughly simplified for an English as a second language person: "Intelligence (brains; being smart) is the key to staying alive."

Think about your situation in a match.
Think about how you are going to attack, and what part of the enemy to shoot.
Always think about escape plans in case if something goes wrong.
Listen for footsteps.
Investigate corners before moving on. (So many enemies have walked right by me without ever knowing I was there).
Know when to fight and when to retreat.
More importantly, know when retreat is impossible and make your last stand.

Survival before bravado. Bravado before cowardice.
(Put staying alive before acting brave / showing off. If the fight is too much, back away from it and return later.)
(If you cannot survive by withdrawing (moving away) then die with your hand on the trigger. Do not die with your back to the enemy.)

Note: Once you begin using an Assault mech, you will eventually learn how to detect if you can withdraw and when you are past the "point of no return."
To be past that point is be "committed" to a fight or engagement. Either you win or you die.

Koniving, on 08 October 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

Some definitions:

• "To Commit" is a term that refers to engaging in a fight you cannot pull away from. With a single life this is important because once you commit that's it. Either you win or you die as the situation is impossible to escape from.
  
  • Examples of usage: "Are we going to commit?" (response) "Not yet, give it a minute to wear them down."
    
  • "Are you sure about this? We can't win. (response) It's too late we're committed."
    
  • "I've got hostiles here. (Roger that, rendezvous with us and lure 'em.) No can do, I'm committed."
    
  • "We are gonna lose this pop-and-squat fest; I'm committing D5. Join me and we'll make it!"
    
  • "Engaged. Oh shit. Too many here. I'm committed but salvageable. Support?"
• "Going down" is the guaranteed losing form of "to commit." With enough experience you will know right away when there is nothing you can do and so reporting (on voice) that you are going down lets your comrades know that you cannot be rescued and that any attempt to do so will result in a Black Hawk Down scenario.

For some definitions of terms like those quoted above, check out this post. Then open the spoiler at the bottom of the post and scroll down to Definitions.

Edited by Koniving, 19 March 2014 - 08:29 AM.