7 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

I've been testing out missile spam and I've seen that an effect way to counter AMS is to simply spam missles until my target runs out of AMS ammunition. Typically, mechs only carry a tolken amount of 1 ton while I carry 10 tons of missile ammo. My suggestion is that the amount of ams ammo be doubled in order to make burning out of someone's AMS harder. That or Laser AMS.

[Zerberus]

ManDaisy, on 20 March 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I've been testing out missile spam and I've seen that an effect way to counter AMS is to simply spam missles until my target runs out of AMS ammunition. Typically, mechs only carry a tolken amount of 1 ton while I carry 10 tons of missile ammo. My suggestion is that the amount of ams ammo be doubled in order to make burning out of someone's AMS harder. That or Laser AMS.

When people actually start carrying more than 1-2 AMS /team, this suggestion will probably come back to bite you

[Charons Little Helper]

Saying that intentionally wasting AMS ammo with missiles is a good idea is like saying it's a good idea to bruise someone's knuckles with your face.

If your AMS runs out of ammo - it's been well worth the 1.5 tons.

[Strum Wealh]

ManDaisy, on 20 March 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I've been testing out missile spam and I've seen that an effect way to counter AMS is to simply spam missles until my target runs out of AMS ammunition. Typically, mechs only carry a tolken amount of 1 ton while I carry 10 tons of missile ammo. My suggestion is that the amount of ams ammo be doubled in order to make burning out of someone's AMS harder. That or Laser AMS.

IMO, doubling the rounds/ton of AMS ammo is what they should not do; they should leave it as-is, and require the choice - the compromise - between carrying "only" one ton of AMS ammo, or making the 'Mech have to give up something else (be it one or more of: ammo for other weapons, weapons, armor, Heat Sinks, or Engine rating) to free up the weight and/or space for additional AMS ammo.

[ManDaisy]

If this makes any sense:

The utility of weapons ammo = High utility

The utility of anti -weapon ammo = low utility.
Quantity increase = increase in utility = increased adoption

When utility of weapon ammo = utility of anti weapon ammo = balance

Edited by ManDaisy, 20 March 2014 - 04:48 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

ManDaisy, on 20 March 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

If this makes any sense:

The utility of weapons ammo = High utility

The utility of anti -weapon ammo = low utility.
Quantity increase = increase in utility = increased adoption

When utility of weapon ammo = utility of anti weapon ammo = balance

The statement that "The utility of anti -weapon ammo = low utility" is highly subjective & highly circumstantial, and thus not necessarily true for all instances; I, for one, find that I get a reasonably high degree of utility out of the one ton of AMS ammo that I carry on all of my 'Mechs... and I suspect that I am but one of many in that regard.

The part of the balance comes from the fact that it - like a number of other aspects of BattleMech design, and of anything else that does (or should) follow a project constraint model - is a limited and scarce resource that must necessarily compete with other resources for emphasis.

• "Do you want more AMS ammo? Enough to be worth decreasing your total armor coverage to free up the needed tonnage?"
  
• "Do you want more AMS ammo? Enough to be worth sacrificing one (or more) of your additional Heat Sinks?"
  
• "Do you want more AMS ammo? Enough to be worth decreasing your Engine rating to free up the needed tonnage?"
  
• "Do you want more AMS ammo? Enough to be worth decreasing your ammo count for one of your ammunition-based weapon systems?"
  
• "Do you want more AMS ammo? Enough to be worth downsizing or removing one of your weapons to free up tonnage and/or space?"
  
• "Do you want more AMS ammo? Enough to be worth removing one or more equipment items (e.g. CASE, Beagle, Guardian, etc)?"

The design of the 'Mech can be modeled as a Project Management Star, with the six points being:

• speed/agility
  
• armor/durability
  
• firepower
  
• ammunition stores
  
• additional electronics/equipment
  
• heat (generation & sinking capacity)

One could even add a few other constraints, such as c-bill cost or ease of use (e.g. being able to manage weapon groups), and get an eight (or more) pointed star - though, the exact number of points on the star is beside the point being discussed.
The game balance comes from having to make sacrifices in one or more other points in order to increase/emphasize other points.
Which combination of emphasized points you value most & gain the most utility from, are not necessarily the universally ideal combination - some 'Mechs (like the Annihilator or the UrbanMech) make heavy sacrifices in speed to emphasize firepower and durability, while others (like the Banshee, Charger, or the Cicada) do the opposite (e.g. sacrifice firepower and/or durability for speed). The existence of this system of trade-offs - and the need to balance the positive and negative aspects in each shift - is what gives many 'Mechs both their raison d'être, their reason for being, and their sense of "personality".

And this is why PGI shouldn't continuously increase attributes and efficiencies (such as rounds per ton, for AMS or any other ammunition-based weapon) - because (in part) it lessens the constraints and costs - the "checks & balances" - with regard to building (or attempting to build) "one 'Mech that does it all, to rule them all".

Edited by Strum Wealh, 20 March 2014 - 05:58 PM.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Just give us an AMS on/off toggle already so we can stop wasting AMS ammo on missiles that aren't going to hit anyone.

It would also allow us to avoid giving up our positions to LRM recon by fire.

[Koniving]

ManDaisy, on 20 March 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

I've been testing out missile spam and I've seen that an effect way to counter AMS is to simply spam missles until my target runs out of AMS ammunition. Typically, mechs only carry a tolken amount of 1 ton while I carry 10 tons of missile ammo. My suggestion is that the amount of ams ammo be doubled in order to make burning out of someone's AMS harder. That or Laser AMS.

Easiest way to do it is this.


AMS fires at the same rate no matter how many or how few missiles there are to shoot.
So this will drain it for less than 100 missiles.