517 replies to this topic

[Pygar]

Shar Wolf, on 31 March 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

IE: Large Laser does it's damage over a full second - what if it took the AC/10 (similar damage total) 1.5 seconds (or longer!) to throw out enough shells to cause that 10 damage?

Then you will see AC/10s get used even less than you see them get used now.....which is to say, pretty much not at all.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Pygar, on 31 March 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

Then you will see AC/10s get used even less than you see them get used now.....which is to say, pretty much not at all.

1) I see AC/10 used frequently - about as often as I see AC/5 or /20

2) I mentioned what you said in my post.

[Amsro]

SmallLaserWarriorOnline: 2015, can't wait.

[jackal40]

I gotta say none of the above.

I'd love to see the AC20 projectile speed increased, but the rest is fine.

If the other types of weapons are too weak, boost them instead.

Stop the nerf madness!

[Coralld]

jackal40, on 31 March 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

I gotta say none of the above.

I'd love to see the AC20 projectile speed increased, but the rest is fine.

If the other types of weapons are too weak, boost them instead.

Stop the nerf madness!

I think the point you are missing is that the TTK is to low, which is caused by the FLD meta, so that means the FLD weapons needs to be fixed, buffing other weapons would not help.

This is how I view our current weapons:
Most of the Lasers are fine, PL need a small buff, probably along the lines of reducing the beam duration further.
LRMs are fine, Streaks are ok, SRMs have issues but that's because of hit detection not because of their stats so we need to solve the hit detection problem first before messing with the stats.
MGs could use a small buff, Flamers need a to be reworked.
All AC weapons and the PPC are broke because of their FLD which is why they are so powerful because they don't spread their damage like the other weapons and thus the current meta which has been plaguing the game for 2 years.

The only AC weapon that I would have to say is fine is the LBX and even then I would say it could use a small damage buff.

If PGI were to put in the Burst Fire mechanic for all ACs (which I think the LBX should be exempt from because it already spreads damage) and the PPC with the Lightning Arc mechanic would solve most of the game imbalances.
The TTK would take longer and be in a better spot over all and weapons would be much more balanced with each other. And with the implimentation with the Burst FIre mechanic I would say remove the Ghost heat from all the AC weapons.

Edited by Coralld, 31 March 2014 - 05:50 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Galenit, on 31 March 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

I let armor out of it, expect in the ammo part.

It was about the shoots needed to remove 100 armor, in one location you need 10 hits.
If you want you can say, how many rolls (shoots) do you need to hit 10 times the same target.

10 shoots in mwo.
Your example has 34 shoots to do the same.

Still 3,4 times as much then we need ...

If you want armor in the comparsion, you have to put the heat and movementpenaltys in it too.

More than happy to have heat penalties in MW:O!

And that is the point of RNG. I don't understand the complaints about how well we can hit one another... I do see the problem with convergence, I do not believe there is not a programmable solution.

[Co Ward]

just no.

bad players need to stfu a lil more and whine about things that kill them a little less.

learn to torso twist and not get into bad spots, the guns aren't your problem, you are.

Edited by Udachi Kerensky, 01 April 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[Coralld]

Udachi Kerensky, on 01 April 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

just no.

bad players need to stfu a lil more and whine about things that kill them a little less.

learn to torso twist and not get into bad spots, the guns aren't your problem, you are.

Oh, I can play this game too.

Good players would be able to adapt and wouldn't be a problem for them so there wouldn't be a reason why these proposed changes would cause them to be all up in arms and throw a hissy fit like a spoiled 5 year old.

If you disagree, that's fine, just don't make it sound like you are throwing a tantrum when doing so.

Edited by Coralld, 01 April 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Coralld, on 01 April 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

Good players would be able to adapt

In full agreement with you Cor, but had a "fun" thought when I saw this bit:
There is a world of difference between a "High Level" and a "Good" player - especially in a game that is very unbalanced at all.
(Is MWO one of those? I would be among the last to know - if only because the level I play with has always brought some of everything to the field - and the gear seems to have little impact on the score - but at the same time, I also see a lot of obviously new players )

IE: at the height of StarCraft's (one of the best balanced games out there - especially in the equal-but-different crowd) "Zerg Rush" meta - a lot of very high level players could not adapt to the nerfs (direct or otherwise) to that meta.
They were high level - they won a lot of tournaments - but they were not, in fact, "Good" players.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 01 April 2014 - 04:21 PM.

[Boss Awesome]

Reducing falloff range of AC's is probably the best move, or possibly reducing projectile speed. Recoil is a really stupid idea. Why would a weapon mounted on a big giant robot have recoil? It is firmly attached to the mech after all. Making AC's just like lasers would make the game a lot less diverse.

[Sam Slade]

Trauglodyte, on 21 March 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

7- (THE most important) ACs need to behave in a burst fire mode WHEN they're put in a location whose bore is smaller than the weapon being used. In other words, if I put an AC20 in a slot dedicated to an AC2, I should fire 10 2 damage projectiles instead of one 20 point round. This would make it so that the pure AC builds maintain their flavor while offering up some differentiations among AC manufacturers (fluff added without making a sweeping addition to the inventory).

This is a flipping awesome idea. Suddenly the Hunchie and his AC20 play their part... the Victor and Highlanders with arm mounted AC20s become 'surprise! ded!' again, no more stuid JJing AC20 Shadowhawks or Blackjacks(I hate this for some reason). Also it's good for balance in general...

[Coralld]

Sam Slade, on 01 April 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

This is a flipping awesome idea. Suddenly the Hunchie and his AC20 play their part... the Victor and Highlanders with arm mounted AC20s become 'surprise! ded!' again, no more stuid JJing AC20 Shadowhawks or Blackjacks(I hate this for some reason). Also it's good for balance in general...

Agreed, however, I would go so far to say that all AC weapons fire a 2x shell burst minimum, this way it also curves the PPC AC alpha meta for the biggest offenders, Victor and Highlander. HOWEVER!! Mechs like the Hunchback 4G or say when the Hollander ever gets in, they get a special perk for their master slot, call it "BFG" and it makes it so all AC weapons fire a single shell.

[Blue Drache]

ACs are just fine as-is. Period. End of sentence ... I like my ACs ... I want to keep my ACs.

[Coralld]

Blue Drache, on 01 April 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

ACs are just fine as-is. Period. End of sentence ... I like my ACs ... I want to keep my ACs.

Read my Sig, I like my ACs too, however, even I have to admit pure FLD weapons are a problem. The only weapon that should be pure FLD is the Gauss.

Edited by Coralld, 01 April 2014 - 08:15 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Coralld, on 01 April 2014 - 08:12 PM, said:

Read my Sig, I like my ACs too, however, even I have to admit pure FLD weapons are a problem. The only weapon that should be pure FLD is the Gauss.

Maybe the PPC - but that could be argued to infinity and beyond.
Maybe some of the smaller AC (there was a single single shot AC/20 after all - not one mounted on a mech, but still one existing)

Edit: cannot believe I left this bit out....
But yeah - most (if not all) AC almost guaranteed should not be single shot
vagueness due to being to tired to make a decent statement -and I don't want to be yelled at because I forgot something - great way to make my point, I know

Edited by Shar Wolf, 01 April 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[stjobe]

Shar Wolf, on 01 April 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

(there was a single single shot AC/20 after all - not one mounted on a mech, but still one existing)

No, the ChemJet uses a four-round burst, as described in Era Report 3025:

Era Report 3025, p89 said:

An engineer or armchair general might hold forth that the Crusher SH Cannon Autocannon (the only useful part of a Hetzer wheeled assault gun) is a completely different sort of weapon than 185mm ChemJet Guns of the fearsome Demolisher tank, because the former is a 150mm autocannon designed to fire a cassette of 10 shells while the latter is a 185mm weapon that fires a four-round cassette.

The UAC/20 on the Cauldron Born is the only one that's left as possibly being single-shot. All the other are burst- or continuous-fire.

Every. Single. One.

Shar Wolf, on 01 April 2014 - 08:27 PM, said:

Edit: cannot believe I left this bit out....
But yeah - most (if not all) AC almost guaranteed should not be single shot

Indeed.

Tech Manual, p207:



"autocannons [...] are [...] rapid-firing, auto-loading, heavy ballistic weaponry - gigantic machine guns"

Doesn't sound like slow-firing single-shot weaponry to me.

Edited by stjobe, 01 April 2014 - 09:47 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

stjobe, on 01 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

"autocannons [...] are [...] rapid-firing, auto-loading, heavy ballistic weaponry - gigantic machine guns"

But the way always start with a small step:
remove the numbers.
its
light AC
medium AC
heavy AC
very heavy AC

or if you really want to know about damage potential in the name - so that damage is fixed.

call it
Laser 9
Laser 5
Laser 3
or
LRM 5,5
LRM 11
or
SRM 4
SRM 8
SRM 12

You see to have damage values in the name is kind of crazy. With the removement they can be tweaked in any manor... as long as the light AC does less damage as a medium AC at reduced range.

And of course you also can use the same bullet damage and bullet range....the assault class AC - with 1 dmg pellets ...firing every 0.25 seconds will have much more problems to be devastating at long range as the burst firing medium AC firing only a couple of bullets at the same range.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Actually the number attached to missiles is the number of missiles not damage. Lasers are referred to by size. It's only the ACs that have "damage" attached to them. This also is not true as due to RoF they all do approximately the same damage over a 10 second period in MWO.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 01 April 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

But the way always start with a small step:
remove the numbers.
its
light AC
medium AC
heavy AC
very heavy AC

or if you really want to know about damage potential in the name - so that damage is fixed.

call it
Laser 9
Laser 5
Laser 3
or
LRM 5,5
LRM 11
or
SRM 4
SRM 8
SRM 12

You see to have damage values in the name is kind of crazy. With the removement they can be tweaked in any manor... as long as the light AC does less damage as a medium AC at reduced range.

And of course you also can use the same bullet damage and bullet range....the assault class AC - with 1 dmg pellets ...firing every 0.25 seconds will have much more problems to be devastating at long range as the burst firing medium AC firing only a couple of bullets at the same range.

I agree with you but with Missiles it is the number of Missiles per salvo not the damage they will inflict per flight.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 01 April 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

No, the ChemJet uses a four-round burst, as described in Era Report 3025:


The UAC/20 on the Cauldron Born is the only one that's left as possibly being single-shot. All the other are burst- or continuous-fire.

Every. Single. One.


Indeed.

Tech Manual, p207:



"autocannons [...] are [...] rapid-firing, auto-loading, heavy ballistic weaponry - gigantic machine guns"

Doesn't sound like slow-firing single-shot weaponry to me.

Shame on you. You edited out the word MOST from your argument. Most Auto Cannons fire streams or Bursts. With Varying Calibers and FIRING RATES. (Big heavy Shells chamber slower then small light Shells)

And since ALL of our ACs fire approximately the same DpS they are in fact ALL basically AC20s... According to the Era Report.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 April 2014 - 06:12 AM.