Jump to content

Battlemaster 1G Torso Twist 60 Degrees?


57 replies to this topic

#1 Tlords

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Scythe
  • The Scythe
  • 176 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:11 PM

I just realized the torso twist of the BLR-1G starts out limited to 60 degrees. I really want to run a classic Battlemaster (ppc, 4-6 medium lasers, and an SRM6, with 2 machine guns). The Battlemaster in the lore was a brawling Nightmare. I find this version severally limited as apposed to the other Battlemaster variants, which start out with 80 degree torso twist movement. I can't fathom why this has such a bad torso twist range - especially since the Boar's Head has 15 degrees more freedom at 75 degrees and it has all of its lasers in the arms.

#2 Nothing Whatsoever

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 3,655 posts
  • LocationNowhere

Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:24 PM

Yeah, I hope when the devs look at Assaults again that they tweak this variant to at least 70 or 75, (along with buffs for Awesomes).



I guess it got that nerf from both the hardpoint layout and the C-Bill bonus it gets as a Phoenix variant.

#3 Asyres

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 433 posts

Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:38 PM

I'd venture a guess that it's to balance it against the 1D, which trades off two energy and one missile for one ballistic slot.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that this was the best way to balance the chassis (I'd have preferred that the 1D gain an arm energy hardpoint as well, and leave them with the same torso twist, for instance), just presenting a possible rational.

#4 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:33 PM

The 1G has 10 hardpoints, so something has to counterbalance that benefit over the regular variants which have 8 hardpoints each.

#5 Tlords

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Scythe
  • The Scythe
  • 176 posts

Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

Restricting torso twist becasue it has 10 hardpoints, a majority of which are energy, does not make sense to me. Smurphy reports the STK-3F has 85 degrees of movement and it has 10 hard points. I'm taking this on fact, because I do not pilot a stalker ANd for the stalkers that are limited in their torso twist, they have lots a laser weapons in the arms... The 1G has them in the torso... meaning harder to aim and hit with.... Also when it comes to energy weapons they have severe limitations due to ghost heat. With exception of the AC20 the limitations are not as sever on AC's or missiles. Based on this having 7 energy shouldn't limit an assault.

#6 NRP

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 3,949 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:16 PM

"Severely limited" is a bit melodramatic.

#7 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:29 PM

View PostTlords, on 24 October 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Restricting torso twist becasue it has 10 hardpoints, a majority of which are energy, does not make sense to me. Smurphy reports the STK-3F has 85 degrees of movement and it has 10 hard points. I'm taking this on fact, because I do not pilot a stalker ANd for the stalkers that are limited in their torso twist, they have lots a laser weapons in the arms... The 1G has them in the torso... meaning harder to aim and hit with.... Also when it comes to energy weapons they have severe limitations due to ghost heat. With exception of the AC20 the limitations are not as sever on AC's or missiles. Based on this having 7 energy shouldn't limit an assault.


You can only properly compare variants between each other. Comparing them to other chassis (even of the same tonnage) becomes a lot more difficult.

Right now, this reads as sheer whining, w/o exploring why this happens to be the case.

This mech in some ways (on paper) compares more favorably to a Misery (in terms of hardpoints and locations), so please find better reasoning than the "the Stalker has more hardpoints" excuse.

Also, the Boar's Head has the same issue that all Atlai have... a somewhat lowered firing location of the primary firepower (the arms are fairly low) and they are crippled in the same way... focusing on the side torsos to remove firepower.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 October 2013 - 04:33 PM.


#8 RandomLurker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 393 posts

Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

View PostNRP, on 24 October 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

"Severely limited" is a bit melodramatic.


Are you kidding? Battlemasters rely on defensive twisting for their survival, since (like most assaults) they make for large targets. With a twist limited to 60 degrees, you can't twist far enough to completely cover your CT.

This drawback invalidates the 1G as a brawler. It's one redeeming feature is that the extra two hardpoints are very high up and make it a good PPC sniper, if you can figure out how to get the PPC's to stay in those spots anyway. (its possible, but a PITA).

#9 NRP

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Fire
  • Fire
  • 3,949 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:28 PM

I haven't had any issues protecting my CT.

#10 MeiSooHaityu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 10,912 posts
  • LocationMI

Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:18 AM

I haven't felt like the torso twist was a problem. Then again, I think almost all Assaults are lumbering pigs LOL. The only reason I pilot any of them at all is because the Victor got me interested in Assaults again.

Battlemaster seems good to me *shrug*

#11 SgtMagor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,542 posts

Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:37 AM

still a little fuzzy on the basic upgrade, increase torso twist 10 percent basic upgrade, get elite, get 2x basic so 2 x10%= 20- increase in torso twist 20% of 60 degrees=12+60=72 degrees with 2x basic tweak? not a lot for an assault but combine that with a 400XL haven't seen it as a problem. 72 degrees twist with 76.8kph makes a good wrecking machine.

#12 DONTOR

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 3,806 posts
  • LocationStuck on a piece of Commando in my Ice Ferret

Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:33 AM

if you have your 2X basic skills you must have speed tweak and with a 400XL your goin 84.8 I believe.

#13 MeiSooHaityu

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 10,912 posts
  • LocationMI

Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:37 AM

View PostSgtMagor, on 25 October 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

...72 degrees twist with 76.8kph makes a good wrecking machine.


As a Catapult pilot I had become spoiled when it comes to torso twist. With a Cat, torso twist is 270+ Degrees (with tweaks you can practically look directly behind you). As soon as I went to other mechs, I felt restricted as heck.

I guess that is why the Battlemaster's torso doesn't bother me. Everything feels restrictive outside of a Catapult torso twist., so the Battlemaster feels no different than the Victor or even Thunderbolt LOL.

#14 ShotgunWillie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:57 AM

View PostTlords, on 24 October 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Restricting torso twist becasue it has 10 hardpoints, a majority of which are energy, does not make sense to me. Smurphy reports the STK-3F has 85 degrees of movement and it has 10 hard points. I'm taking this on fact, because I do not pilot a stalker ANd for the stalkers that are limited in their torso twist, they have lots a laser weapons in the arms... The 1G has them in the torso... meaning harder to aim and hit with.... Also when it comes to energy weapons they have severe limitations due to ghost heat. With exception of the AC20 the limitations are not as sever on AC's or missiles. Based on this having 7 energy shouldn't limit an assault.


Emphasis mine. Stalkers arms have no side-to-side movement. They do have up down movement, which can be of benefit over torso mounted weapons, but the biggest benefit of having arm mounted hard points comes from having arms that have side-to-side movement, which, as I said, Stalkers do not.

The real benefit of the Stalker's energy hard points in the arms is that they are mounted very high in relation to the cockpit, which makes them ideal for ridge humping and sniping. The Battlemaster's torso mounted energy hard points are mounted nearly as high as the stalker's hard points in relation to the cockpit, so that argument is really invalid here.

#15 Tlords

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • The Scythe
  • The Scythe
  • 176 posts

Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:47 PM

I admit, I do not pilot stalkers. I do like the Battlemaster though. I just don't see the reason they dropped 20 degrees of freedom for the 1G. Maybe I'm at a loss, and I don't understand why the limitation in torso twist bettween the 1G and the 1D/1S. 20 degrees is a huge hit in maneuverability. My hope is to run a standard Battlemaster build, but looking at the 1D and 1S... I don't think it competes. with the other versions.

#16 Kin3ticX

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The People's Hero
  • The People
  • 2,926 posts
  • LocationSalt Mines of Puglandia

Posted 21 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

I am waiting for U.I 2.0 so I can sell this POS-1G. Not excited about the $80s it took to get it...

#17 Smelly

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 21 posts

Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:01 PM

Well I got bad news for you, can't sell the phoenix mechs. Those are the mechs with the [P] after the mech variant. They are locked to the mechbay they came with.

#18 Xenon Codex

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Bolt
  • The Bolt
  • 575 posts
  • LocationSomewhere Over the Rainbow

Posted 21 December 2013 - 04:15 PM

My 6 LL -1G does just fine, in fact it's my highest performing Battlemaster at a KDR of 1.4 @ 47 matches (and quite fun to play I might add).

My -1D after 40 drops is a paltry .75. While the limited twist is annoying at times, it's not that big of a limitation the way I play it.

#19 Carrioncrows

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Rage
  • Rage
  • 2,949 posts

Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:08 PM

It's because 7 energy hardpoints with 6 of them being high mount is EPIC.

My favorite build right now is called the Juggernaut

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...74e09354792f3dd

23 DHS's 6 mediums, twin machineguns and a ppc for assists and sniping.

Simply use the PPC to close within 270m and then go to work with the medium lasers using the machineguns when needed to cool and put pressure on lights

#20 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 21 December 2013 - 05:44 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 23 October 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

The 1G has 10 hardpoints, so something has to counterbalance that benefit over the regular variants which have 8 hardpoints each.

Except that most of the best Battlemaster loadouts use only 6-8 weapons. Pretty much nobody in the history of ever uses all 10 hardpoints (virtually always skip the missile at least). Having an abundance of energy hardpoints is never a good thing with our slow-as-molasses heat dissipation.

Edited by FupDup, 21 December 2013 - 05:52 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users