123 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Blitzendegen, on 23 March 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

With anything else the guy had to acquire the target and actually aim his weapons to target specific areas for the kill or assist and damage. That requires skill. With LRMS most of the time the user doesn't even get targets himself he just sits back lets people get them for him and holds one button down. No skill involved.

Then we get these people posting on the forums about how actually it takes great amounts of skill to wait for players to get targets for them and to hold that one button down. I'd be interested to know how many of these so called pro skill lrm users play competitively and regularly dominate with lrms in competition.

oh ok, so because you think they're "Easy" to use THAT makes them "op"? I'm just pointing out that they are now on par with every other weapon in the game and are no more effective than any other weapon. That disproves any claims of the being "op"

[puffaholic]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

oh ok, so because you think they're "Easy" to use THAT makes them "op"? I'm just pointing out that they are now on par with every other weapon in the game and are no more effective than any other weapon. That disproves any claims of the being "op"

This logic only works if you ignore the fact that they are indirect fire weapons. You can hide under cover all match, relying on your teammates to gain locks for you. You never have to expose yourself to any risk from direct fire while doing comparable damage to any other weapon group. That's where the argument for them being "OP" comes from.

In my opinion the NARC boost and speed boost were too much all at once. I think the NARC buff alone would have been enough to fix the issues of excessive ECM cover. Missle speed and damage were fine pre-buff.

[Rex Budman]

puffaholic, on 23 March 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

This logic only works if you ignore the fact that they are indirect fire weapons. You can hide under cover all match, relying on your teammates to gain locks for you. You never have to expose yourself to any risk from direct fire while doing comparable damage to any other weapon group. That's where the argument for them being "OP" comes from.

In my opinion the NARC boost and speed boost were too much all at once. I think the NARC buff alone would have been enough to fix the issues of excessive ECM cover. Missle speed and damage were fine pre-buff.

THANK YOU! It's about time someone used their brains and posted a nice logical argument.

They have a huge max range, perform max damage, more damage than direct fire weapons, do not require aim, do not require LOS (TAG)... What more can one say?

Its LRMwarrior online

[Sandpit]

puffaholic, on 23 March 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

This logic only works if you ignore the fact that they are indirect fire weapons. You can hide under cover all match, relying on your teammates to gain locks for you. You never have to expose yourself to any risk from direct fire while doing comparable damage to any other weapon group. That's where the argument for them being "OP" comes from.

In my opinion the NARC boost and speed boost were too much all at once. I think the NARC buff alone would have been enough to fix the issues of excessive ECM cover. Missle speed and damage were fine pre-buff.

so popping up for less than a second to drop pinpoint damage on a target that's out in the open and dropping back down behind cover effectively resulting in not exposing yourself to return fire isn't "op"
but
Sitting behind cover, while hoping a teammate helps you out (See how we keep coming back to this whole teamwork thing?), targeting long enough to get a lock, holding a lock long enough for missiles to remain on target, having to counter ECM, make it through AMS, and hopefully get a good enough angle to get around or over any cover the target finds, and finally hitting in random hit locations as opposed to one section (like those pinpoint weapons do) IS "op"

that about cover it?

[Sandpit]

Rex Budman, on 23 March 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

They have a huge max range, perform max damage, more damage than direct fire weapons, do not require aim, do not require LOS (TAG)... What more can one say?

well

one could say
they have a min range at which they do ZERO damage
ACs and PPCs have a LONGER range
Do the SAME damage as direct fire weapons, except they SPREAD damage instead of all in one location
Require a lock in order to hit
DO require LoS even if not from the shooter. (You can't just shoot em in the air and hope they land on your target's head now can you?)
Fail to see how TAG doesn't require LoS, you're either lying or ignorant to how TAG works because by its very nature it MUST have LoS to work
ECM completely negates their ability to lock and shoot

but none of that counts I suppose right?

[Spr1ggan]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

so popping up for less than a second to drop pinpoint damage on a target that's out in the open and dropping back down behind cover effectively resulting in not exposing yourself to return fire isn't "op"
but
Sitting behind cover, while hoping a teammate helps you out (See how we keep coming back to this whole teamwork thing?), targeting long enough to get a lock, holding a lock long enough for missiles to remain on target, having to counter ECM, make it through AMS, and hopefully get a good enough angle to get around or over any cover the target finds, and finally hitting in random hit locations as opposed to one section (like those pinpoint weapons do) IS "op"

that about cover it?

I used to be a brawler and then that got crushed and had to become a poptart. Poptarting takes far more skill than using lrms with more risk. You expose yourself when you attack and you are usually airborne long enough for people to land shots, The guys that most complain about on these forums are the ones that stand behind a rock and pop up and down, that is failtarting and they are easily dealt with. Good poptarts jump laterally and turn as soon as they've fired. This takes far more skill than using lrms and requires you be a lot closer to your targets. People can't poptart from extreme range with multiple erppcs and gauss anymore and they are extremely vulnerable to airstrikes and artillery.

Also being attacked by poptarts doesn't hinder your movement and pretty much stunlock you while your screen is being rocked all over the place while being unable to see shit. You will get pro lurmageddon folks on here saying everyone that disagrees with them are noobs and don't know how to use cover. People do know how to use cover, the cover isn't covering shit unless it's a whole mountain or a skyscraper and if you're in a slow mech like a bashee etc then god forbid you ever leave "cover" and take a shot at anything because you will lose half your mech before you can make back. And if you get narced you might as well just quit match because you are dead.

Edited by Blitzendegen, 23 March 2014 - 06:21 PM.

[Sandpit]

Blitzendegen, on 23 March 2014 - 06:07 PM, said:

I used to be a brawler and then that got crushed and had to become a poptart.

Also being attacked by poptarts doesn't hinder your movement and pretty much stunlock you while your screen is being rocked all over the place while being unable to see shit.

So all the people that don't "HAVE" to resort to poptarting to be successful are doing it wrong I suppose? Ok....

Yea because ACs don't cause screen shake.....

[Bishop Steiner]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

So all the people that don't "HAVE" to resort to poptarting to be successful are doing it wrong I suppose? Ok....

Yea because ACs don't cause screen shake.....

And of course, movement is not hindered, when the moment one leaves covers they are hitscan (or very nearly) spammed with projectiles and ppc blasts and lasers that a poptart can snapshoot, whereas the LRM mech still needs to actually secure a target lock. You can tell when a person is a poptart, when they have such massive, obvious gaps in their argument.

Also, brawling is more viable now than before the LRM buff, as LRMboats are delicious, and the LRM threat means that there are less poptarts to instacore you as you switch cover.

[Spr1ggan]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 06:10 PM, said:

So all the people that don't "HAVE" to resort to poptarting to be successful are doing it wrong I suppose? Ok....

Yea because ACs don't cause screen shake.....

How is a poptart in the air long enough to hit you with that many ac rounds that it shakes the shit outta your screen? And please quote anywhere in my post where i said anyone not playing poptarts is doing it wrong. The only ac that comes close to causing the amount of screenshake as lurms are ac2s and uacs. Ac2s have ghost heat to deal with and uacs have a ridiculous RNG jam "feature" on them.

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

And of course, movement is not hindered, when the moment one leaves covers they are hitscan (or very nearly) spammed with projectiles and ppc blasts and lasers that a poptart can snapshoot, whereas the LRM mech still needs to actually secure a target lock. You can tell when a person is a poptart, when they have such massive, obvious gaps in their argument.

Also, brawling is more viable now than before the LRM buff, as LRMboats are delicious, and the LRM threat means that there are less poptarts to instacore you as you switch cover.

Poptarts aren't in the air long enough to spam you with projectiles. If they are, they are standing on the ground. Poptarts alpha when they jump and fire. And brawling is never gonna be that viable again until they fix srms and hit detection.

Edited by Blitzendegen, 23 March 2014 - 06:20 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Blitzendegen, on 23 March 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

How is a poptart in the air long enough to hit you with that many ac rounds that it shakes the shit outta your screen? And please quote anywhere in my post where i said anyone not playing poptarts is doing it wrong. The only ac that comes close to causing the amount of screenshake as lurms are ac2s and uacs. Ac2s have ghost heat to deal with and uacs have a ridiculous RNG jam "feature" on them.

and LRMs are still laughable much past 500 meters on anything faster than a Stalker, have a laughable projectile speed even with the buff (note, as a lock on weapon, I am fine with that), require time to lock, and are defeated by ECM, Cover (not to be confused with concealment) and reduced by AMS, or flat out defeated by overlapping AMS umbrellas. If no one holds a lock, you hit nothing, and if you hold your own, you are wide open for much faster firing, direct fire return fire. Almost all of which have superior range to "Long" range missiles.

The problem is, people are being forced out of their comfort zones and patterns, and don't like it. There are too many of us playing, and against high Elo competition, that are doing just fine against this "meta" (despite the fact that oh yeah, almost every top player in the faction tournament was, oh, what? A poptart. Gosh, so... despite all the LRM QQ, poptarts are still the dominant meta. Who'da thunk?).

[Spr1ggan]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

and LRMs are still laughable much past 500 meters on anything faster than a Stalker, have a laughable projectile speed even with the buff (note, as a lock on weapon, I am fine with that), require time to lock, and are defeated by ECM, Cover (not to be confused with concealment) and reduced by AMS, or flat out defeated by overlapping AMS umbrellas. If no one holds a lock, you hit nothing, and if you hold your own, you are wide open for much faster firing, direct fire return fire. Almost all of which have superior range to "Long" range missiles.

The problem is, people are being forced out of their comfort zones and patterns, and don't like it. There are too many of us playing, and against high Elo competition, that are doing just fine against this "meta" (despite the fact that oh yeah, almost every top player in the faction tournament was, oh, what? A poptart. Gosh, so... despite all the LRM QQ, poptarts are still the dominant meta. Who'da thunk?).

Skilled players using a playstyle that takes skill. *Gasp*

[Bishop Steiner]

Blitzendegen, on 23 March 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

How is a poptart in the air long enough to hit you with that many ac rounds that it shakes the shit outta your screen? And please quote anywhere in my post where i said anyone not playing poptarts is doing it wrong. The only ac that comes close to causing the amount of screenshake as lurms are ac2s and uacs. Ac2s have ghost heat to deal with and uacs have a ridiculous RNG jam "feature" on them.



Poptarts aren't in the air long enough to spam you with projectiles. If they are, they are standing on the ground. Poptarts alpha when they jump and fire. And brawling is never gonna be that viable again until they fix srms and hit detection.

if one faced a single poptart, that would be true. Hmmmm...... the last time one faced a single poptart.... still waiting.... oh, but when ther are 4-8 all nailing you with insta snapshot accuracy, yes that doe snot at all affect one.

[Sandpit]

Blitzendegen, on 23 March 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

How is a poptart in the air long enough to hit you with that many ac rounds that it shakes the shit outta your screen? And please quote anywhere in my post where i said anyone not playing poptarts is doing it wrong. The only ac that comes close to causing the amount of screenshake as lurms are ac2s and uacs. Ac2s have ghost heat to deal with and uacs have a ridiculous RNG jam "feature" on them.



Poptarts aren't in the air long enough to spam you with projectiles. If they are, they are standing on the ground. Poptarts alpha when they jump and fire. And brawling is never gonna be that viable again until they fix srms and hit detection.

Want me to go back and quote all the posts about LRMs being "op" because "4-12" mechs take them? Same
exact
thing
for poptarts
Sure 1 of them isn't going to do much, 10 of them working in unison focused on 1-2 targets, yea there's MORE than enough to create a constant screen shake.

Blitzendegen, on 23 March 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

Skilled players using a playstyle that takes skill. *Gasp*

lol and that pretty much says it all. Once again another poptarter mad because LRMs can now effectively counter that tactic
gl&gh

[Bishop Steiner]

Blitzendegen, on 23 March 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

Skilled players using a playstyle that takes skill. *Gasp*

Lol. The day poptarting takes actual skill, I will eat my Rat7. Stop stroking your epeen. In this day of adjustable mouse sensitivity, macros, and multiple big screen monitors, any fool can click a pixel. You got skill, come brawl with me. Let's see if you can actually dance AND shoot, instead of playing mecha-pogostick. GG. Close. Well, not really.

[wanderer]

puffaholic, on 23 March 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

This logic only works if you ignore the fact that they are indirect fire weapons. You can hide under cover all match, relying on your teammates to gain locks for you. You never have to expose yourself to any risk from direct fire while doing comparable damage to any other weapon group. That's where the argument for them being "OP" comes from.

In my opinion the NARC boost and speed boost were too much all at once. I think the NARC buff alone would have been enough to fix the issues of excessive ECM cover. Missle speed and damage were fine pre-buff.

You do realize that the more LRM boats hiding to provide IDF there are, the fewer targets there are to absorb damage and spot for you?

That's the dangerous part. I've seen teams of 6 LRM boats just end up having the spotters smoked, followed by the enemy team patiently marching around and then splattering them at close range.

The people who die like dogs are the ones that take straight lines at their targets from 700m, eat 200+ LRMs at once and keel over. Dreadfully sorry, but from where I am that's just plain stupid.

And despite all the QQ, know who's gonna win the top spots in the tournament this weekend? The same stuff that was dominant pre-patch. Dakka. Dakka. Dakka. The guys in the missile boats will be in the top 50, but they won't be top 25.

[mack sabbath]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Lol. The day poptarting takes actual skill, I will eat my Rat7. Stop stroking your epeen. In this day of adjustable mouse sensitivity, macros, and multiple big screen monitors, any fool can click a pixel. You got skill, come brawl with me. Let's see if you can actually dance AND shoot, instead of playing mecha-pogostick. GG. Close. Well, not really.

Maybe you should tune in to Jagers stream and watch the Jags jump fighting. Educate yourself before you call those guys lacking skill, pretty sure they'd eat you alive and use much skill doing so.

Maybe when private matches come around, you can show us.



* edited for typo

Edited by Stevie Ray Vaughan, 23 March 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

Sandpit, on 23 March 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

Want me to go back and quote all the posts about LRMs being "op" because "4-12" mechs take them? Same
exact
thing
for poptarts
Sure 1 of them isn't going to do much, 10 of them working in unison focused on 1-2 targets, yea there's MORE than enough to create a constant screen shake.


lol and that pretty much says it all. Once again another poptarter mad because LRMs can now effectively counter that tactic
gl&gh

That's IF all those poptarts have decent aim. And even then it's not much screenshake, I know. I've been on the receiving end many times. You will get a lot of screenshake if it's the Highlander and victors standing there hitting you with uacs (provided they don't jam). Anyway it's PGI that are to blame, they should have done what DICE ended up doing with BF2. Making so people couldn't fire their weapons while in the air.

[Spr1ggan]

Also Bishop i wouldn't talk up your brawling skills. I don't know if you remember me but my name used to be McHarg and i beat you many times in brawls in the past. And i'm only an average player at best.

Edited by Blitzendegen, 23 March 2014 - 06:38 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stevie Ray Vaughan, on 23 March 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

Maybe you should tune in to Jagers stream and watch the Jags jump fighting. Educate yourself before you call those guys lacking skill, pretty sure they'd eat you alive and use much skill doing so.

Maybe when private matches come around, you can show us.



* edited for typo

believe what you want. Seen em. Played with and against em. Good unit. Using a tactic that doesn't require skill doesn't preclude some of the practitioners from being skilled. Doesn't validate that the Poptart meta is an inherently "skilled" meta, either. sorry that rubs you wrong. Well, not that sorry, because the Meta itself is pretty lame and boring.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 March 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

GG. Close. Well, not really.

LORD BISHOP

ggclose