21 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

Supposedly TAG allows you to lock onto a target faster. In testing grounds TAG proved to be useless in speeding up lock time. Whether close or long distance.. locking on time was virtually identical as when I didn't use TAG. If it is faster with TAG it certainly isn't worth taking up the energy point.

Am I wrong here?

[Amsro]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 March 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

Supposedly TAG allows you to lock onto a target faster. In testing grounds TAG proved to be useless in speeding up lock time. Whether close or long distance.. locking on time was virtually identical as when I didn't use TAG. If it is faster with TAG it certainly isn't worth taking up the energy point.

Am I wrong here?

I'm not sure about the speed increase, but TAG can counter a single ECM. Adanced Sensor Range and BAP also help increase TAG's effective range. Worth the investment if you can manage to tonnage.

Must have if you ALRM, Artemis + TAG is great.

The new LRM speed + Narc equiped lights and mediums is going to be a prime 2 week period for Lrmageddon, get your ALRM boat ready.

[KnowBuddy]

Smurfy says TAG accelerates lock-on, and Smurfy pulls data directly from the game files and is updated promptly after each patch, so I trust that TAG accelerates lock-on. What I don't really trust is the testing grounds... no actual testing seems to be possible in the testing grounds, since so much still doesn't work right there.

[luxebo]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 March 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

Supposedly TAG allows you to lock onto a target faster. In testing grounds TAG proved to be useless in speeding up lock time. Whether close or long distance.. locking on time was virtually identical as when I didn't use TAG. If it is faster with TAG it certainly isn't worth taking up the energy point.

Am I wrong here?

Another factor that TAG does is remove ECM completely (edit) when targeted by the laser. While NARC may have some redeeming qualities now, it still won't beat TAG in a lot of cases, as NARC would require ammo, doesn't stack with atermis, and is heavier than TAG. TAG however, requires line of sight, same as Atermis, so it works well with Atermis. NARC doesn't require line of sight, therefore it's best as a usable missile lock weapon from scouts, or maybe some mechs with an overabundance of missile hardpoints, aka CPLT-A1 or KTO-18.

Edit: Didn't realize it but Amsro pretty much said everything I said. Basically seconding what he has said.

Edited by luxebo, 17 March 2014 - 08:32 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

TAG certainly does decrease missile lock time, but i'm not surprised if it doesn't work in the training grounds.

Many functions do not work in training grounds since it is local and not using the server-authoritative architecture; It is mainly useful for new players to work on their moving and firing and is not suitable for advanced testing.

Hopefully NARC will have some gameplay advantages. TAG is longer range and lighter but a NARC won't require you to continue to face your target. Allowing you to 'shoot and scoot' and get out of danger may be worth it! Or maybe not. We'll have to see how well the buffs work.

[Gtbuck]

Everyone seemed to cover it pretty well but I'll add, as far as usefulness, don't forget that it doesn't just help you, but also assists your team mates. In pug matches it's great because if you tag a target in most cases it's like calling a target for all LRM equipped team mates and focused LRM fire does beautiful things to enemy mechs.

edited to add, don't forget the Tag bonus, it will help you grind out those tough to play mechs(yeah I'm looking at you spider 5v)

Edited by Gtbuck, 18 March 2014 - 05:08 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Amsro, on 17 March 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

I'm not sure about the speed increase, but TAG can counter a single ECM. Adanced Sensor Range and BAP also help increase TAG's effective range. Worth the investment if you can manage to tonnage.

Must have if you ALRM, Artemis + TAG is great.

The new LRM speed + Narc equiped lights and mediums is going to be a prime 2 week period for Lrmageddon, get your ALRM boat ready.

Thank you for your quick reply! According to gamepedia TAG is supposed to decrease lock time. The reason I opened this topic up is because I was running with a lance of Streak SRM's. They were under the impression that BAP, TAG, advanced sensor range and target info gathering stacked to help reduce lock-on time. I tested these items one at a time in testing grounds but NONE of these items helped decrease lock-on time. With testing grounds not being reliable for "testing," I will have to test them one at a time in the battlefield.

I know TAG has other advantages but all I'm concerned about is reducing lock time for my streaks. I've watched a stalker lock target almost INSTANTLY, how did he do this?? Mind you, I am more of a brawler and don't like doing the 'camp and click' thing that LRM boats do. I think that's a boring and frankly, cowardly way to battle. But that's a topic for another day...

[Barkem Squirrel]

I know with SRM's I have recieved TAG bonuses, but SSRM's not so sure.

Even having Artemis upgrade for the mechs does seem to decrease lock on times for SSRM's. Not sure why.

[DEMAX51]

Advanced sensor range and target info gathering do not help you achieve lock faster, only TAG, BAP, and Artemis do that (and the bonuses from Artemis and BAP do not stack, BAP always overrides Artemis)

Sensor range just bumps your sensors up from 800 meters to 1000 meters, allowing you to target mechs that are further away.

Target info gathering just gives you an enemy mech's information sooner (like its weapon loadout, and its paper doll that shows its damage).

Edited by DEMAX51, 18 March 2014 - 12:22 PM.

[Koniving]

TAG doesn't remove ECM. It isn't a hard counter but a soft counter. It allows ECM to be targeted but doesn't remove the delay that ECM causes in lock ons. Tag will not push through that delay either, so no faster lock-on against the ECM target unless the ECM is properly hard-countered by BAP or another ECM.

Which reminds me of another test I need to do. Does the UAV hard-counter or soft-counter ECM? We know it allows the targeting of an ECM mech since it uses visual recognition. So. Does lock-on stall or is it rapid against an ECM mech spotted by a UAV?

Testing ensues... sometime later this week. Got classwork to do for now.

[DAEDALOS513]

DEMAX51, on 18 March 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Advanced sensor range and target info gathering do not help you achieve lock faster, only TAG, BAP, and Artemis do that (and the bonuses from Artemis and BAP do not stack, BAP always overrides Artemis)

Thanks for all the info! Regarding lock-on times, have you actually confirmed the shorter lock-on times with TAG, BAP and Artemis, or are you just going by what's "supposed" to happen. If you've tested them, which is the single best of the three for decreasing lock-on time?

[DEMAX51]

I have not performed an actual testing, but I can certainly notice a difference in lock-speed when I'm tagging an enemy. I'm not entirely sure, but I think the bonus for each one is 25%.

[TheCaptainJZ]

Artimus definitely decreases the lock on speed for streaks. Not it's intended effect but a bug that may never get fixed. No dev has mentioned it as a priority.

[Koniving]

TheCaptainJZ, on 20 March 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

Artimus definitely decreases the lock on speed for streaks. Not it's intended effect but a bug that may never get fixed. No dev has mentioned it as a priority.

Since it requires recoding the lock on system or replacing it, they never will.
They need to just apply a slight weight penalty for streaks with Artemis and be done with it.

[LauLiao]

This may sound silly and don't be offended by the question, but you actually had your TAG activated right? I can see someone thinking that TAG was an "equip-it-and-forget-it" add on like Artemis. Just making sure that you were actually painting (shooting) your target with your TAG laser. It should make a pretty dramatic difference in lock-on time.

[Clownwarlord]

Tag can be very useful and as for testing it in testing grounds might not prove that because what it was only 2 patches ago that PGI added the use of arty and air strikes into testing grounds.

So key things with tag, you can help maintain locks for friendly targets, gathers info faster (not to be confused with locks), and counters ECM. After all that bonuses, lots of C-Bills to be made if done properly. Take a ECm light mech with a PPC and a tag and hide behind enemy tag and pop each mech get a kill assist and tag assists on those mechs for loads of C-Bills.

If you have other questions the skye-rangers could help you, we have a group of 800 members who have been playing since closed beta.

[DEMAX51]

clownwarlord, on 20 March 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Tag can be very useful and as for testing it in testing grounds might not prove that because what it was only 2 patches ago that PGI added the use of arty and air strikes

Nope, you've been able to use strikes in the testing grounds ever since they were introduced. It was pilot skills and modules like Target Info Gathering that were just recently made to work in the testing grounds.

Quote

So key things with tag, you can help maintain locks for friendly targets, gathers info faster (not to be confused with locks)

Nope, TAG helps you achieve lock faster, and helps missiles track more precisely. It does not give you info faster - BAP. and the Target Info Gathering module do that.

Quote

and counters ECM. After all that bonuses, lots of C-Bills to be made if done properly. Take a ECm light mech with a PPC and a tag and hide behind enemy tag and pop each mech get a kill assist and tag assists on those mechs for loads of C-Bills

Yup, those are both good points.

[DAEDALOS513]

LauLiao, on 20 March 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

This may sound silly and don't be offended by the question, but you actually had your TAG activated right? I can see someone thinking that TAG was an "equip-it-and-forget-it" add on like Artemis. Just making sure that you were actually painting (shooting) your target with your TAG laser. It should make a pretty dramatic difference in lock-on time.

If you're asking me, yes I did have TAG both ON and OFF in testing grounds. It made no difference in lock-on time.. but since then I've heard testing grounds isn't a reliable source for "testing."

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 25 March 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[Magna Canus]

DAEDALOS513, on 18 March 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

I know TAG has other advantages but all I'm concerned about is reducing lock time for my streaks. I've watched a stalker lock target almost INSTANTLY, how did he do this??

It may actually be that he did not have a lock and just made use of a special little potential bug I discovered. I was trying out a new SHD build and was fighting on Caustic. I forgot to take the SSRMs out of the firing group with the ML. I fired the laser and off go the streaks, but pretty much in a straight line like an SRM2. I had Artemis installed because I was messing with LRMs earlier. What I think may have happened is that, in addition to the bug that lets Artemis reduce lock-on times for SSRMs also lets you dumb-fire them. I didn't test it any further or give it a further thought until reading this just now.

[mailin]

This is totally anecdotal, but on my Stalker lrm boat with artie and tag, if I can see a mech, and he is in sensor range, it seems that I lock him more slowly than if he is also in tag range, which happens nearly instantly. I'm sticking with my tag, thank you very much.