15 replies to this topic

[Nekomimi]

So the speed of all the LRMs have been increased, we should know by now that things get over increased before they over decrease then bumped back in the middle. But I had an idea, What if we quirk the 5-10-15-20 systems by speed along with their current accuracy?

Where the LRM5 is the fastest at the 175 boost(Or there abouts), it becomes useful and fits in with builds you'd like to have them with but dropped the missile's since before it was kinda pointless to use it.

The LRM10's get a reduction from that to about 155, LRM15 goes to 140 and the LRM20 to 125(Quite roughly 25% decreases on all of them).
This also makes sense because there are more missiles in the cluster, they need to keep enough room to not accidentally run into each other so their speed is reduced. SURE you could Boat all LRM5s, but it takes 4 Hardpoints to reach 20 so it kinda works out

Edited by Nekomimi, 22 March 2014 - 09:48 PM.

[wanderer]

Speed IS accuracy for LRMs. Also, cutting speed means that bigger launchers not only fire more slowly, they're inherently less accurate. That's patently unfair.

And my LRM 15's fire in clusters of 4. Not clouds of 15. Guess that means mine should go FASTER than 175, right?

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Personally I would like to see the direct fire speed upped to match other direct fire weapons ie 500m/sec at least. They could drop indirect fire and we would loose all the comments then from the l33t skliz bunch. Could also loose the "support weapon" tag that they seem determined to pin on LRMs.

[El Bandito]

OP, did you know that the most effective LRM launchers for killing the enemy are LRM5 and LRM10? You wanna keep the speed for the most effective launchers while nerfing the least effective ones? Does not make sense.

Nik Van Rhijn, on 23 March 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

Personally I would like to see the direct fire speed upped to match other direct fire weapons ie 500m/sec at least. They could drop indirect fire and we would loose all the comments then from the l33t skliz bunch. Could also loose the "support weapon" tag that they seem determined to pin on LRMs.

Interesting concept. I personally would like to see it in action.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 March 2014 - 03:42 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Its kind of sad at the moment, lurms should be viable but the little buff now mean so many more lurm boats back it a storm of people that can't shoot straight making the game very dull, and in some maps impossible to brawl.

Just finished a match where the other team was nearly all lurm assaults backed up by lights, even mediums are carrying lrm instead of streaks, takes the risk reward out the game.

Speaking as a Britain I find the lurm storms happen less during American or Asian hours and more during European hours.


Which says much about the national characteristics of Europeans

[Jakob Knight]

The problem with asking LRMs to be turned into similar weapons to ACs is that ACs are already known to be OP. If we did that, LRMs would have to be able to be fired as quickly (LRM5s having the same fire rate as an AC/2, for instance), and their damage would have to be concentrated into one location. If the indirect fire option so many people seem to have a problem with were to be done away with, then so too would the minimum ranges, all countermeasures, and flight times would have to be the same as an AC. I think if all of this were done, we might as well just have autocannons as the only weapon in the game, or LRMs would -still- be seen as even more OP than they are now.

Flight time on an LRM is not just an additional restriction on the firing unit (requiring the unit to hold the target much longer than any other weapon type to do damage), but also the means for a target to evade the weapon after it has been fired at them (something no other weapon, especially ACs, have to deal with). Adding in the countermeasures such as ECM, AMS, and the upcoming consumable immunity shield, and LRMs simply have too many obstacles to overcome just to damage the target to be treated the same as an AC.

People just need to re-learn how to defeat LRM mechs once again, or remember that these weapons are -meant- to be dangerous.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 23 March 2014 - 04:06 AM.

[El Bandito]

Jakob Knight, on 23 March 2014 - 04:04 AM, said:

Flight time on an LRM is not just an additional restriction on the firing unit (requiring the unit to hold the target much longer than any other weapon type to do damage), but also the means for a target to evade the weapon after it has been fired at them (something no other weapon, especially ACs, have to deal with). Adding in the countermeasures such as ECM, AMS, and the upcoming consumable immunity shield, and LRMs simply have too many obstacles to overcome just to damage the target to be treated the same as an AC.

Not to mention bitching Betty warning everyone that missiles are coming.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 March 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[Lord Perversor]

Imho PGI need to bring 2x fixes along.

1: make LRM to target mech parts like Streaks does , this will decrease the Lrm lethality and up it's weakening purpouse, also this should bring more utility to larger LRM launcher (the more missiles the better for massive dmg )

2: after the 1st part, now PGI can tweak 0.1 or 0.2 less dmg if still Lrm feels deal too much damage.

Edited by Lord Perversor, 23 March 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[Sandpit]

my thoughts on LRMs were posted in the first 10 or so threads about them. Now it's just a matter of the same people repeating the same thing in different threads.
lrm 1000 damage = op weapons and pgi needing to fix something
ac and ppc 1000 damage = high fives and awesome round bro!

[El Bandito]

Lord Perversor, on 23 March 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Imho PGI need to bring 2x fixes along. 1: make LRM to target mech parts like Streaks does , this will decrease the Lrm lethality and up it's weakening purpouse, also this should bring more utility to larger LRM launcher (the more missiles the better for massive dmg ) 2: after the 1st part, now PGI can tweak 0.1 or 0.2 less dmg if still feels too much dmaging.

After the first part, PGI will need to buff LRM damage by at least 0.3, because LRMs will become garbage weapon otherwise.

At least Streaks with current spread are effective against Lights, and Lights only, but LRMs can't hit Lights. And Streak style targeting means LRMs will be joke against larger mechs. Not effective against Lights, not effective against larger mechs...garbage.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 March 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Daekar]

Double or triple the lock time on indirect fire and double or triple the missile spread on indirect fire - indirect fire being defined as situations in which the target is not tagged or narced and the targeting is being provided by a teammate. IDF shouldn't be as effective as DF.... and I say this as the owner of a 2xLRM15 Founder's Cat. I was thrilled to be able to actually use the mech again, and it's hardly OP, but if changes are necessary I think the above would be a good first step.

Edited by Daekar, 23 March 2014 - 12:37 PM.

[wanderer]

Doubling your spread would, incidentally mean that you'd halve your damage. I do...oh, about 28% accuracy with two LRM 15's with Artemis.

Let's halve that, since doubled spread means half as many missiles will get through and hit.. You're now hitting with 14% of your missiles. That means about....3 damage per shot in IDF mode from an LRM 15.

Welcome back to the scrap heap.

[Rhent]

Nekomimi, on 22 March 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

So the speed of all the LRMs have been increased, we should know by now that things get over increased before they over decrease then bumped back in the middle. But I had an idea, What if we quirk the 5-10-15-20 systems by speed along with their current accuracy?

Where the LRM5 is the fastest at the 175 boost(Or there abouts), it becomes useful and fits in with builds you'd like to have them with but dropped the missile's since before it was kinda pointless to use it.

The LRM10's get a reduction from that to about 155, LRM15 goes to 140 and the LRM20 to 125(Quite roughly 25% decreases on all of them).
This also makes sense because there are more missiles in the cluster, they need to keep enough room to not accidentally run into each other so their speed is reduced. SURE you could Boat all LRM5s, but it takes 4 Hardpoints to reach 20 so it kinda works out

I'm all for making LRM's travel as fast as AC's, although I think it would be better if they went the speed of Gauss. Thanks for posting this awesome idea on speeding up LRM's!

[Khobai]

The problem with LRMs isnt their speed. 175m/s is still slow as hell (ppcs go 1500m/s). Its their rate of fire (specifically LRM5s) LRMs need a slower rate of fire but more damage per missile. LRMs can basically stun lock you right now and shake you around so much that you cant aim properly. Even the shake reduction module doesnt reduce the shake enough.

Additionally ECM has also been overnerfed (ECM now has FIVE counters: ECM, PPC, BAP, TAG, NARC). ECM is supposed to counter LRMs but when ECM has so many counters that its unable to perform its job of countering LRMs theres a problem. Which is why everyone who said balancing LRMs around ECM was stupid was completely right. PGI just didnt listen.

So basically:

1) LRM rate of fire and impulse should be lowered but damage per missile should be higher. This is a fair tradeoff and retains the current power level of LRMs.

2) ECM should not grant stealth. LRMs should be rebalanced around ECM not granting stealth. The only effect ECM should have on LRMs is increasing lock-on time.

Edited by Khobai, 23 March 2014 - 01:22 PM.

[Krinkov]

Nekomimi, on 22 March 2014 - 09:45 PM, said:

we should know by now that things get over increased before they over decrease then bumped back in the middle.

We already went through that cycle with LRMs. You had been playing with the over nerfed version for a year. Now they are fixed and just fine.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 23 March 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

shake you around so much that you cant aim properly. Even the shake reduction module doesnt reduce the shake enough.
.

I liked it better when the shake was more drastic BUT it didn't affect your target reticle. It was an optical affect that let you still return fire as long as you didn't panic.

Krinkov, on 23 March 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

We already went through that cycle with LRMs. You had been playing with the over nerfed version for a year. Now they are fixed and just fine.

Pretty much. Anyone who survived what is commonly referred to as lurmageddon know this is not even remotely close to that. This is just a weapon system being brought on par with every other weapon system in the game. I won't hold my breath hoping PGI doesn't go back to nerfing everything every time the metahumpers QQ about something though.