191 replies to this topic

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 March 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

- Nothing

You are purposefully gimping yourself.

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 26 March 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

You are purposefully gimping yourself.

And doing great without it! Not everyone has to use the easy button to slaughter the enemy!

[DaZur]

F2P is reliant upon friction to encourage players to invest in the game... For most people the value of time > money.

The burden is on PGI to provide enough "play value" to players so they become desirous of faster progress while not turning them off from too harsh of friction.

Problem is different people have varying levels of sensitivity to the friction and value of time. (Not to profile but it seems the older we are the more diametric that value system becomes).

For me the friction level was right for me to invest in premium time and a hero because I have limited time to invest. I.e... time > money.

[AlmightyAeng]

DaZur, on 26 March 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

For me the friction level was right for me to invest in premium time and a hero because I have limited time to invest. I.e... time > money.

Yeah...mine let me pick up several hero 'mechs in a variety of chassis sizes...and while I have accumulated premium time...that button isn't getting hit until CW shows up...if then.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 26 March 2014 - 07:56 AM.

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 March 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

If you want a bigger payday do what you didn't do. If you want to have fun and not worry about the pay... keep using what you did. It's MechWarrior not MechBillionaire. Warriors don't get paid well for their risk.

This is one of the few things we disagree on. I really think they need to put pay back to what it was before 12v12 was implemented. Right now it feels too grindy for me, and takes away from just sitting back and having fun. Every match I see something that gets me thinking about a new build or trying a new mech, but then I start thinking about how much it is going to cost and how long it will take me to get it that I lose all motivation to play. I really think they need to find a better balance between tedious grind and worthwhile time investment.

[Joseph Mallan]

WarHippy, on 26 March 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

This is one of the few things we disagree on. I really think they need to put pay back to what it was before 12v12 was implemented. Right now it feels too grindy for me, and takes away from just sitting back and having fun. Every match I see something that gets me thinking about a new build or trying a new mech, but then I start thinking about how much it is going to cost and how long it will take me to get it that I lose all motivation to play. I really think they need to find a better balance between tedious grind and worthwhile time investment.

Its ok that you disagree. The advice is for what the game IS, not for how I would like it to be.

[meteorol]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 March 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

And the point is still the same... Learning curves are personal.

Honestly, i always wondered why so many guys claim MWO has such a steep learning curve.
So many games require hours over hours of reading if you don't want to mess up, others have a way higher skill ceiling when it comes to actual ingame combat.

Still so many guys are like "omg we are playing the hardest game ever here, noobs get crushed over and over again, learning curve, they don't know what to do".
Well, noobs get crushed in every game out there. If you don't want to pay for a respec in a RPG, be prepared to read countless pages of information to have your char planned before you even make one step with it. Many RPGs have a way more complicated skill and item system than MWO will ever have with the mechlab.
I can't get rid of the feeling part of the "steepest learning curve ever" assertions are born from elitism.

[DaZur]

Ghost Badger, on 26 March 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Yeah...mine let me pick up several hero 'mechs in a variety of chassis sizes...and while I have accumulated premium time...that button isn't getting hit until CW shows up...if then.

I looked at it this way... I wanted "stuff". I could begrudgingly slog through the grind or I could invest in the MC to buy the stuff.

My fuzzy Polish math told me the MC cost of the stuff was more than grinding it out with a hero + premium.... So it was a no-brainer.

As I see it... I'm playing anyways... I might as well net as much profit while doing it!

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 March 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

And doing great without it! Not everyone has to use the easy button to slaughter the enemy!

I'll remember you said this next time there is a discussion about Arty being OP.

[MeiSooHaityu]

F2P game = Paywall.

The current economy (and slow income generation) is the way it is to encourage people to spend real money for MC or premium time.

I don't care for F2P games, but it is getting more popular and now we have to live with it. Welcome to the new face of gaming

[Joseph Mallan]

3rdworld, on 26 March 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

I'll remember you said this next time there is a discussion about Arty being OP.

Go back and read my history on the subject... You will find a lack of concern about it being OP. I have died to Art/Air twice since it was unleashed.

[WarHippy]

DaZur, on 26 March 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

Clarity: Does not grasp the premium placed on team-play payout and infers PGI did a ghost-nerf on compensation...

Yes, clearly the payout for holding fire so someone else has the misfortune of getting the kill is awesome team play. I mean really who was the team player the guy that secured 1/3 of the enemy kills and was a participant in more than half of the defeated enemies, or the guy that runs around and tags all 12 enemies with his machine guns just to make sure he gets the bigger payday?

[Joseph Mallan]

meteorol, on 26 March 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Honestly, i always wondered why so many guys claim MWO has such a steep learning curve.
So many games require hours over hours of reading if you don't want to mess up, others have a way higher skill ceiling when it comes to actual ingame combat.

Still so many guys are like "omg we are playing the hardest game ever here, noobs get crushed over and over again, learning curve, they don't know what to do".
Well, noobs get crushed in every game out there. If you don't want to pay for a respec in a RPG, be prepared to read countless pages of information to have your char planned before you even make one step with it. Many RPGs have a way more complicated skill and item system than MWO will ever have with the mechlab.
I can't get rid of the feeling part of the "steepest learning curve ever" assertions are born from elitism.

I did get crushed quite a bit when I first got into MW:O... But I expected that since I was not in the first group let in, I was 46 years old and Never played MMOs or PvP games other than Pong an Mortal Combat(no sequels)

[Joseph Mallan]

WarHippy, on 26 March 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yes, clearly the payout for holding fire so someone else has the misfortune of getting the kill is awesome team play. I mean really who was the team player the guy that secured 1/3 of the enemy kills and was a participant in more than half of the defeated enemies, or the guy that runs around and tags all 12 enemies with his machine guns just to make sure he gets the bigger payday?

Both ends of the spectrum Hippy. How about my example, the Missile boat that rains 1,100+ damage on 11 of the 12 kills, with just one kill myself. I thought that was an Awesome game. we crushed the opposition and had zero casualties. That is a great game in my ledger.

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 March 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Both ends of the spectrum Hippy. How about my example, the Missile boat that rains 1,100+ damage on 11 of the 12 kills, with just one kill myself. I thought that was an Awesome game. we crushed the opposition and had zero casualties. That is a great game in my ledger.

That is indeed a great game, but I don't see why it should be considered more helpful and therefor rewarded more than someone who performed as well as the OP. I was just getting a little irritated with all the accusations of him not being a team player but the person with 1 kill and 7 assists is. I shouldn't feel penalized for getting kills, and I shouldn't be holding shots so that someone else gets a kill so that I can get better pay. For me a team game is about the team winning in whatever way it occurs. For me there is no such thing as a kill steal because all that matters is that the other team has been defeated and we won, but when you start throwing around different incentives for different types of performance people stop thinking as much about the win as they do about gaming the system.

[DaZur]

WarHippy, on 26 March 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

Yes, clearly the payout for holding fire so someone else has the misfortune of getting the kill is awesome team play. I mean really who was the team player the guy that secured 1/3 of the enemy kills and was a participant in more than half of the defeated enemies, or the guy that runs around and tags all 12 enemies with his machine guns just to make sure he gets the bigger payday?

LOL! Your reading my response a little too literally.

I fully agree that the OP contributed to the win and in the process has a good personal game. Problem is... as I've reiterated, is that's not how the reimbursement metrics see it.

Not saying it's right... not saying I agree with it. But it's the present reality of the payroll department.

Edited by DaZur, 26 March 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

WarHippy, on 26 March 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

That is indeed a great game, but I don't see why it should be considered more helpful and therefor rewarded more than someone who performed as well as the OP. I was just getting a little irritated with all the accusations of him not being a team player but the person with 1 kill and 7 assists is. I shouldn't feel penalized for getting kills, and I shouldn't be holding shots so that someone else gets a kill so that I can get better pay. For me a team game is about the team winning in whatever way it occurs. For me there is no such thing as a kill steal because all that matters is that the other team has been defeated and we won, but when you start throwing around different incentives for different types of performance people stop thinking as much about the win as they do about gaming the system.

1 kill and 7 assists the player is putting damage into a lot o targets to soften them up so the team can kill them quicker. Taking the burden off the brawler. It is a question of Perspective I agree. Should one make more than the other... No. Does it? Yes. Now as the game works which do you want glory or a big payday? That is a decision each player needs to make ...until it changes again.

[WarHippy]

DaZur, on 26 March 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

LOL! Your reading my response a little too literally.

I fully agree that the OP contributed to the win and in the process has a good personal game. Problem is... as I've reiterated, is that's not how the reimbursement metrics see it.

Not saying it's right... not saying I agree with it. But it's the present reality of the payroll department.

Perhaps I was, but I will blame your sig because it is great yet somewhere deep inside it makes me feel rage.

That being said the reimbursement metrics are bad, and need to be adjusted which I think is what the OP was trying to get at.

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 March 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

1 kill and 7 assists the player is putting damage into a lot o targets to soften them up so the team can kill them quicker. Taking the burden off the brawler. It is a question of Perspective I agree. Should one make more than the other... No. Does it? Yes. Now as the game works which do you want glory or a big payday? That is a decision each player needs to make ...until it changes again.

I understand how it works, but I don't like it. I agree the player with 1 kill and 7 assists did a good job and should be compensated for it, but I feel bad for the poor sob that got 7 kills and 1 assist. The glory should be in the win not the payday or the bragging rights.

[Deathlike]

Although you had a great game, the reality is that you collect more money if you "poke" all 12 mechs on the enemy team and then proceed to destroy them all.

That's the ultimate problem with the reward system. Might as well collect the "Philanthropist" reward while you attempt that.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 March 2014 - 08:41 AM.