84 replies to this topic

[Nikkoru]

It seems the last few days when I log in the chat is filled with LRM complaining.

Did they double the damage or something? It seesm like everyone is losing their minds, but I personally don't really see any difference from before.

[Fut]

I don't understand all the complaining either.
Some people are reacting like their first born was just sacrificed...

[Burakumin1979]

It's the people who don't know what AMS, tactics, cover, etc. are. "What?? A wide open terrain charge got me tagged and destroyed by missile volleys? Ermergerd!!!!"

[RushOutlaw]

I've played LRMs heavily since day one of open beta. I think they are at a good point right now. AMS is a strong deterrent and should finally be compulsory to fit to all mechs.

[Nikkoru]

RushOutlaw, on 27 March 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

I've played LRMs heavily since day one of open beta. I think they are at a good point right now. AMS is a strong deterrent and should finally be compulsory to fit to all mechs.

Did they change something in the last patch?

[Modo44]

LRMs fly very fast since last patch. They are fire&forget missiles at close and medium range with target decay, but still not that great for pure DPS. Their speed and screen shake will be toned down a little on Tuesday.

[Redshift2k5]

Nikkoru, on 27 March 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

Did they change something in the last patch?

Yes, the last patch gave LRMs a significant increase in flight speed. This makes cover less effective and makes fast mechs trying to "outrun" LRMs much more vulnerable.

LRM speed is slated for a nerf in the next patch, putting it in the middle between the old speed and it's current higher speed.

[King Arthur IV]

Burakumin1979, on 27 March 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

It's the people who don't know what AMS, tactics, cover, etc. are. "What?? A wide open terrain charge got me tagged and destroyed by missile volleys? Ermergerd!!!!"

omg new players with know how instead of the vets.

time to take some note you old timers.

[Sug]

The type of player they're effective against hasn't changed but now they die slightly faster so LRMs are OP now.

[Nebelfeuer]

Funny how the balancing in this game is still catering to the loudest whine instead of reasoning.
On a side note the recent changes did increase LRM dps though the usefulness is debatable due to the massive spread of the dmg. Did not feel the need to bring AMS but did enjoy the matches a lot more then before since you had to look for ams/ecm/terrain cover for once.

[Barkem Squirrel]

What happened is LRM speed was changed from 120 m/s to 175 m/s. Along with changes to NARC to negate ECM, staying on the mech for a set time v after some damage. Then the Stalker trial mech was an LRM boat, and a decent one at that. So new missile speed, NARC changes, LRM boat for a trial mech, and everyone with their mother and daughter were boating LRMs. Some rage was going to happen. A perfect storm.

We had a change in terminal descent angle about a year ago. Within two days a change was made, since no cover could hide you. That was rage, or more change these now, we can not hide from the LRMs.

Before this LRMs also had the damage reduced to 1.1 from 1.5, but this also involved SRMs having damage reduced due to splash damage, coring targeted mechs.


When you go out into the open sometimes people will target you with LRMs, but when 8 people have LRMs, 200 or more LRMs raining on you is not fun. Then you die. This happened before the patch last week and will still happen.

Me , 120 was working, but it was hard to get kills, not to be focused by 4 mechs with multiple auto cannons before the missiles hit the targets.

To end this Paul is reducing the speed in the next patch to 160 m/s to please the players flaming the LRMs. Also screen shake will be reduced from .40 to .35 on Tuesday.

Overall we still get faster missiles, people will die out in the open just like before and we can have less exposure time to AC's and PPC's.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 27 March 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[TercieI]

RushOutlaw, on 27 March 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

I've played LRMs heavily since day one of open beta. I think they are at a good point right now. AMS is a strong deterrent and should finally be compulsory to fit to all mechs.

"AM I NOT A MECH!!?!???!?"

-X-5

[Koniving]

Terciel1976, on 27 March 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

"AM I NOT A MECH!!?!???!?"
-X-5

Poor X-5. Truth be told I haven't brought it into a match for some time.
-------
My only complaint about LRMs is the endless rivers of them. I'd be pretty happy with a simple tweak that doesn't change the DPS but removes the rivers of missiles caused by ghost heat penalties (or the attempts to avoid them).

Something like doubling the cooldown (so it takes twice as long to fire again; so in effect the enemy can fire them half as often easing up on the endless streams) but also doubling the damage per missile so that they do not lose any damage potential and instead are more tactfully and sparingly used.

That way yes, they would be super deadly and players will be more skillfully using them rather than spaming them. But, they wouldn't need as much ammo (since they are firing less often and tactfully to make the missiles count) and so they would have other weapons to defend themselves. Yet, there'd also be time to move from cover to cover to advance instead of a dead-still stalemate, where players could try to slip by and advance to kill the missile boats.

It'd give mediums and lights something to do; either protect boats or try to kill them.

[Kjudoon]

Modo44, on 27 March 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

LRMs fly very fast since last patch. They are fire&forget missiles at close and medium range with target decay, but still not that great for pure DPS. Their speed and screen shake will be toned down a little on Tuesday.

Fire and forget? No, they are not. that's like saying ACs or SRMs are 'fire and forget'.

And we are getting two 'wuss out' re-nerfs so the Poptarts will stop crying.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 March 2014 - 01:21 PM.

[Modo44]

Kjudoon, on 27 March 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

Fire and forget? No, they are not. that's like saying ACs or SRMs are 'fire and forget'.

Have you actually tried LRMs at under 500m with target decay equipped? Because it reads like you have not.

[Charons Little Helper]

The DPS of LRMs wasn't increased - just their speed.

The cooldown wasn't dropped. The damage wasn't increased. The DPS being fired is the same, though the increased speed can likely improve one's accuracy.

[Kjudoon]

Modo44, on 27 March 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

Have you actually tried LRMs at under 500m with target decay equipped? Because it reads like you have not.

Of course I have. They are just as 'fire and forget' as an SRM or AC20. So there is no validity to your complaint.

Cover still works. The missiles still spread like an LB10x. You still get AMS and Missile Warning and ECM to break lock... all things that do not happen to an AC.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 March 2014 - 01:27 PM.

[Koniving]

Charons Little Helper, on 27 March 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

The DPS of LRMs wasn't increased - just their speed.

The cooldown wasn't dropped. The damage wasn't increased. The DPS being fired is the same, though the increased speed can likely improve one's accuracy.

(On the off chance you were talking to me; I'm aware. But speed plus rivers of missiles = endless spam. Hence the idea of increasing cooldown [delay to fire] and doubling damage [to make up for being fired half as often] while keeping the current speed instead of the upcoming speed reduction to deal with the real complaint that people have... it's endless.)

River example, old LRMs.

[ROCKET SCIENCE]

This TF2 blog post about the Sniper class does a pretty good job of summing up why people tend to complain about LRMs. What it boils down to is that when a player dies, they want to know how they died and they want to feel like they lost a fight to someone they had chosen to engage. LRMs cause problems in both cases, because often it's not clear how much damage you're taking from them vs. from other vectors, and many times you won't have actually attempted to engage the LRM jockey - they'll be firing at you over hills or buildings using a target lock from someone else who saw you. These factors tend to make LRM-heavy matches frustrating for those on the receiving end.

[Void Angel]

Nikkoru, on 27 March 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

It seems the last few days when I log in the chat is filled with LRM complaining.

Did they double the damage or something? It seesm like everyone is losing their minds, but I personally don't really see any difference from before.

Fut, on 27 March 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

I don't understand all the complaining either.
Some people are reacting like their first born was just sacrificed...

Charons Little Helper, on 27 March 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

The DPS of LRMs wasn't increased - just their speed.

The cooldown wasn't dropped. The damage wasn't increased. The DPS being fired is the same, though the increased speed can likely improve one's accuracy.

Well, part of the problem was that people had gotten used to long-range direct-fire weapons being king. Between poptarts (people using jump jets to fire over cover; all those guys in Victors sporting 2xPPCs and 2xAC/5s) and long-range autocannon snipers, it was very hard for brawlers to operate, especially if you were a new player. So, when PGI increased missile speeds by almost 46%, it was a very sudden wake-up for people who were used to being able to nearly always get back behind cover before the missiles landed. Many people had even stopped using AMS systems on their 'mechs, believing - with some justification- that AMS just wasn't worth the space.

LRMs are great at suppressing non-poptarts, which I understand was part of the reason for their buff (other than the fact that they were under-used.) The idea was to suppress rapid-fire autocannon builds so that brawlers could spend 5 seconds in the open without looking like Swiss cheese.

The problem (and the reason they're reportedly getting dialed back) is that the speed increase was too much. If anyone so much as brushes an assault with TAG, by the time you get the missile warning and trundle for cover, you're going to eat one volley from anyone who fired at you - probably two, unless you can find cover high enough to physically block the incoming missile swarm. This is... difficult... in some maps, so you end up taking a lot more damage than before. Similarly, while the paper damage was not increased, the buff to AMS was proportionally less than the missile speed increase, resulting in an increased ability to penetrate AMS shells. At the same time, NARC recieved a much-needed buff, including negating ECM if it hits an equipped 'Mech - while the AMS module was not updated.

The upshot of it all was that while a thinking player can (and should) play around the effects of LRMs, the weapon system was a little too easy to use, with counterplay (AMS and running like a hairdresser in the rain) being somewhat ineffective. So while I'm glad they were buffed, I agree that they need to be nerfed back down a little.